Is the holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ?

[glorydaz]

Hey, Darcy...have you ever done a study on the "arm of God" and the "hand of God"?
You'll see Jesus is more than the word of God. It's very interesting.

Jesus IS God. i will look the others up and see what i can learn - thanks.

We're made in His image.

yep, and we are One with Him, also.

But we aren't God and we're NOT to be worshipped as some claim.
Does that teaching sit well with your spirit? I'm betting not.

 

[DarcyLu]

But we aren't God and we're NOT to be worshipped as some claim.
Does that teaching sit well with your spirit? I'm betting not.

you are betting wrong
we are not to be worshipped, we are not gods.

 

[glorydaz]

But we aren't God and we're NOT to be worshipped as some claim.
Does that teaching sit well with your spirit? I'm betting not.

you are betting wrong
we are not to be worshipped, we are not gods.

Then I bet correctly, my dear. See? I bet NOT.

I knew the Holy Spirit would stop that idea in it's tracks.

 

[Anth]

this is Christianity's entire foundation

.

Darcy,

Trust me - there is a LOT more to this - but ICor8:6 is the only Biblical Creed - and you have it before you. BTW - did you note who/what is missing???

Below is a quote from Tertullian - himself a trinitarian - which demonstrates that the Trinitarian was not the majority doctrine in the early church.

The fundamental defect in traditional trinitarian theology is that it denies the human person of Christ - since they only have one person - and that person is divine - they necessarily reject the human person and simply accept the human nature... However, without a human person you don't have a genuine man - BUT scripture clearly teaches that Jesus is a genuine man (ICor15:20,21, ITim2:5, Jn8:40, etc., etc.).

Best,
Anth

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.v.ix.iii.html

Sundry Popular Fears and Prejudices. The Doctrine… Next »

Chapter III.—Sundry Popular Fears and Prejudices. The Doctrine of the Trinity in Unity Rescued from These Misapprehensions.
The simple, indeed, (I will not call them unwise and unlearned,) who always constitute 599the majority of believers, are startled at the dispensation77907790 ?????????. (of the Three in One), on the ground that their very rule of faith withdraws them from the world’s plurality of gods to the one only true God; not understanding that, although He is the one only God, He must yet be believed in with His own ????????? . The numerical order and distribution of the Trinity they assume to be a division of the Unity; whereas the Unity which derives the Trinity out of its own self is so far from being destroyed, that it is actually supported by it. They are constantly throwing out against us that we are preachers of two gods and three gods, while they take to themselves pre-eminently the credit of being worshippers of the One God; just as if the Unity itself with irrational deductions did not produce heresy, and the Trinity rationally considered constitute the truth. We, say they, maintain the Monarchy (or, sole government of God).77917791 So Bp. Kaye, On Tertullian, p. 499

 

[Anth]

You are only denying the power of the Holy Spirit with such statements.

Glory - The Roman Catholics will say the same thing about you - and your disagreement with them... etc., etc., etc.

Who s/I believe is denying the Holy Spirit??

I have been at this a little too long.

Best,
Anth

 

[Anth]

we are not to be worshipped, we are not gods.

Darcy - While the "holy spirit" may stop Glory in his tracks, I am betting that Jesus might stop you in your tracks....

Here is Rev 3:9 your edification....

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

Operative word = "worship"

 

[DarcyLu]

we are not to be worshipped, we are not gods.

Darcy - While the "holy spirit" may stop Glory in his tracks, I am betting that Jesus might stop you in your tracks....

Here is Rev 3:9 your edification....

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

Operative word = "worship"

perhaps if/when we conform into His image, but not now.
although the early church did not use the word "tritarian" it was a word they created to explain what they believed.

 

[glorydaz]

we are not to be worshipped, we are not gods.

Darcy - While the "holy spirit" may stop Glory in his tracks, I am betting that Jesus might stop you in your tracks....

Here is Rev 3:9 your edification....

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

Operative word = "worship"

Bow down as to kings and priests...which is what we are.
We are not gods to be worshipped. You can't believe Jesus is God, but you can believe we're to be worshipped? Something is wrong with this picture.

8I have known thy works; lo, I have set before thee a door -- opened, and no one is able to shut it, because thou hast a little power, and didst keep my word, and didst not deny my name;

9lo, I make of the synagogue of the Adversary those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but do lie; lo, I will make them that they may come and bow before thy feet, and may know that I loved thee.

10`Because thou didst keep the word of my endurance, I also will keep thee from the hour of the trial that is about to come upon all the world, to try those dwelling upon the earth.

 

[Cornelius]

The spirit of Christ simply means the spirit we move in. Like we say, "He came in the spirit of peace" or " I come to you in the spirit of forgiveness".

We have to have the same spirit as Christ if we want to be part of Him. That means, we have to be LIKE Him. We have to share the spirit He moved in. This is not talking about the Holy Spirit.

I know Holy Spirit filled Christians, who do not have the spirit of Christ . I personally have moved many times outside the spirit of Christ and at that moment , I was not in Him.I was in the flesh. At that moment, I had no part of Him.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[DarcyLu]

this is Christianity's entire foundation

Darcy,

Trust me - there is a LOT more to this - but ICor8:6 is the only Biblical Creed - and you have it before you. BTW - did you note who/what is missing???

The Holy Spirit was just not mentioned, we must assume the Spirit is involved as it is the Spirit of God.

Below is a quote from Tertullian - himself a trinitarian - which demonstrates that the Trinitarian was not the majority doctrine in the early church.

The fundamental defect in traditional trinitarian theology is that it denies the human person of Christ - since they only have one person - and that person is divine - they necessarily reject the human person and simply accept the human nature... However, without a human person you don't have a genuine man - BUT scripture clearly teaches that Jesus is a genuine man (ICor15:20,21, ITim2:5, Jn8:40, etc., etc.).

Best,
Anth

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.v.ix.iii.html

Sundry Popular Fears and Prejudices. The Doctrine… Next »

yet it is not gods we worship as the explanation described, it is the One True God, it is not three gods, it is One. as humans, we have a hard time explaining and describing the Trinity, yet we can not discredit it because we can not describe it effectively.
the Trinity belief does not discredit Jesus as man, He was both man and divine.

 

[glorydaz]

The spirit of Christ simply means the spirit we move in. Like we say, "He came in the spirit of peace" or " I come to you in the spirit of forgiveness".

We have to have the same spirit as Christ if we want to be part of Him. That means, we have to be LIKE Him. We have to share the spirit He moved in. This is not talking about the Holy Spirit.

I know Holy Spirit filled Christians, who do not have the spirit of Christ . I personally have moved many times outside the spirit of Christ and at that moment , I was not in Him.I was in the flesh. At that moment, I had no part of Him.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. They are one God.

 

[glorydaz]

You are only denying the power of the Holy Spirit with such statements.

Glory - The Roman Catholics will say the same thing about you - and your disagreement with them... etc., etc., etc.

Who s/I believe is denying the Holy Spirit??

I have been at this a little too long.

Best,
Anth

Only some Catholics....I hate to paint with a broad brush.

The point is...we either believe God is able to keep the Word and deliver it to the believer as He intends ...or not. I know He is more than able...even a child can read the Word and be taught by the Spirit. No Greek scholars or adult supervision needed.

 

[glorydaz]

the Trinity belief does not discredit Jesus as man, He was both man and divine.

Good catch...you saved me the trouble.
That's simply an untrue statement.

I wonder where Follower of Christ is?
He'd set the record straight on this one.

 

[Anth]

we either believe God is able to keep the Word and deliver it to the believer as He intends ...or not

Glory

You are marvelously idealistic....

With 4,962 independent "christian"denominations - it looks like this is not a concept that God is working with .... or 4,961 are somehow really missing boat...

 

[Rick W]

Or the liberties differ.
I'm quite sure that number can be reduced by categorizing by the essentials. But then someone has to decide what the essentials are and that can lead to much debate. In any case I think you can see what I'm getting at.

And yes, I agree with what your saying to an extent as per the above and there are denominations that are much more common than others.
"The Christian Church of the Holy Spirit" (imaginary for illustration) may have less than 100 members and still be included in the list.

 

[Anth]

the Trinity belief does not discredit Jesus as man, He was both man and divine.

Darcy,

As I mentioned, there is a LOT more here - trust me, you barely have your big toe in the water. I have been at this for 30+ yrs and spent ten - fifteen years almost soley focused on Christology. I am not saying I understand everything or that I am necessarily right - only that what is passed for teaching in the Evangelical church is, well, the nicest I can say is "pre-medieval" and with just that amount of thought...

I would be happy to work with you but only on the condition that you are willing to change your mind when obvious texts are brought. At present, I would not go beyond ICor8:6.

re: Traditional Trinitarian Theology denies the man Christ Jesus
Again - there is more here than you know. Below I provide a snippet from Schaff (with a couple annotations...) who specifically states this. HOWEVER, I can provide you quotes from 20 different systematics that will state exactly the same thing -they ALL deny the human person of Christ. They are forced to do so - and, thus, Satan's greatest deception - the denial of the man Christ Jesus - the only mediator between man and God. Crazy? Yup - that is what they told Martin Luther too I imagine (though I am hardly unique in this assertion).

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc3.iii.xii.xxvi.html

“History of the Christian Churchâ€, Philip Schaff, Vol III, p.757

7. The anhypostasia, impersonality, or, to speak more accurately, the enhypostasia, of the human nature of Christ. This is a difficult point[impossible actually...], but a necessary link in the orthodox doctrine of the one God-Man; for otherwise we must have two persons in Christ, and, after the incarnation, a fourth person, and that a human, in the divine Trinity. The impersonality of Christ’s human nature, however, is not to be taken as absolute, but relative, as the following considerations will show.
The centre of personal life in the God-Man resides unquestionably in the Logos, who was from eternity the second person in the Godhead, and could not lose his personality. He united himself, as has been already observed, not with a human person, but with human nature. The divine nature is therefore the root and basis of the personality of Christ. Christ himself, moreover, always speaks and acts in the full consciousness of his divine origin and character; as having come from the Father, having been sent by him, and, even during his earthly life, living in heaven and in unbroken communion with the Father.1653 And the human nature of Christ had no independent personality of its own, besides the divine; it had no existence at all before the incarnation, but began with this act, and was so incorporated with the preexistent Logos-personality as to find in this alone its own full self-consciousness, and to be permeated and controlled by it in every stage of its development. But the human nature forms a necessary element in the divine personality, and in this sense we may say with the older Protestant theologians, that Christ is a persona suvnqeto", which was divine and human at once.1654
Thus interpreted, the church doctrine of the enhypostasia presents no very great metaphysical or psychological difficulty. It is true we cannot, according to our modern way of thinking, conceive a complete human nature without personality. We make personality itself consist in intelligence and free will, so that without it the nature sinks to a mere abstraction of powers, qualities, and functions.1655 But the human nature of Jesus never was, in fact, alone; it was from the beginning inseparably united with another nature, which is personal, and which assumed the human into a unity of life with itself. The Logos-personality is in this case the light of self-consciousness, and the impelling power of will, and pervades as well the human nature as the divine.1656

 

[DarcyLu]

I believe in the Godhead, One God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit

I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. (John 17:4,5)

Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19)

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. (Genesis 1:26)

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:22)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:1-3,14)

In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. (1 John 4:9)

 

[Cornelius]

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. They are one God.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father also called the Spirit of God. Surely we all know that God the Father has His own spirit and that spirit is holy: Holy Spirit. That Holy Spirit was not in Jesus until it descended upon Him when He was baptized, but I can assure you that Jesus walked in the spirit of Christ, before He was filled with the Spirit of His Father.

 

[Rick W]

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. They are one God.

Then why give them different names?

I have no idea.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[Cornelius]

LOL I edited it out to avoid confusion, when you answered and quoted me