Judas Iscariot

[JLB]

So you believe that born again Christians can be demon possessed.
Do you have Scripture for that?

Please show me from my post where I claim that born again Christians can be possessed?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Since Jesus said "I will make the rocks cry out if necessary", then he could certainly make Judas preach.

Judas heard His voice and followed Him, along with the others, as a disciple for three years then was sent out as an apostle, empowered to preach the Gospel to the lost, and cast out devils and heal the sick.

Are you saying he did this, because God forced him too, then forced him to betray Jesus?


JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yes sir, I see that.

However I was asking about "unbelievers" being empowered and sent to cast out devils, heal the sick, preach the Gospel to the lost....

I never mentioned "saved".

Do you believe Judas ever "believed"?

Here is an example of some unbelievers casting out devils.

13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We[a]exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” 14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”

16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them,so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
Acts 19:13-16

I believe Judas did believe, for a while, then fell away and in the end he betrayed Jesus.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

JLB

I was looking for those verses in Acts but my eyes deceived me.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Please show me from my post where I claim that born again Christians can be possessed?


JLB

Does this scripture say those who were casting out demons were unbelievers? Certainly not!

This insinuates that.
Why else would you ask, other than argue?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Judas heard His voice and followed Him, along with the others, as a disciple for three years then was sent out as an apostle, empowered to preach the Gospel to the lost, and cast out devils and heal the sick.

Are you saying he did this, because God forced him too, then forced him to betray Jesus?


JLB

God can make any of us do anything.
Unless you believe that everything happens by chance.
In that case, where does God fit in?

As far as Judas goes, In Matthew and John it indicates he was not of his own mind to betray Jesus.
But in Mark he says it is better you were never born, so he had to of been in his own mind I think.
What do you think?

 

[WIP]

I have to believe that to be true since I believe Judas was never saved.
Judas had to be part of the group so he could fulfill prophecy in the end.
Since Jesus said "I will make the rocks cry out if necessary", then he could certainly make Judas preach.

How do you account for him not being saved against the following?

Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called Passover. And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might kill Him, for they feared the people. Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them. And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. So he promised and sought opportunity to betray Him to them in the absence of the multitude. Luke 22:1-6 NKJV

 

[WIP]

Does this scripture say those who were casting out demons were unbelievers? Certainly not!

This insinuates that.
Why else would you ask, other than argue?

The purpose isn't always just to argue. This is the theology forum and as such we are digging into the Scriptures to find the truth and that means we need to look at all of Scripture and take it all into consideration not just those parts that fit our view of the truth.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

How do you account for him not being saved against the following?

Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called Passover. And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might kill Him, for they feared the people. Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them. And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. So he promised and sought opportunity to betray Him to them in the absence of the multitude. Luke 22:1-6 NKJV

Did Jesus not protect his lost sheep?
But Judas he let go.

 

[WIP]

Did Jesus not protect his lost sheep?
But Judas he let go.

Now you're getting to the gist of the theology forum. Both Scripture are truth and Scripture does not contradict. So....how do we reconcile all of this? One we do, we find the truth. If you know the answer, I'm asking you to show it to me so I can know the truth too.

 

[turnorburn]

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Now you're getting to the gist of the theology forum. Both Scripture are truth and Scripture does not contradict. So....how do we reconcile all of this? One we do, we find the truth. If you know the answer, I'm asking you to show it to me so I can know the truth too.

Scripture says Judas became demon possessed.
Does that make him out of his mind and therefore no longer responsible for his actions?
Jesus said in Mark 14:20-21;
It is one of the Twelve,” he replied, “one who dips bread into the bowl with me. 21 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”

Is Jesus talking to a sane man ?
Did the Sanhedrin know Jesus was the Messiah?
According to Jesus' parables, I would say yes.
I would say Judas knew what he was doing.

But prove it?
No, I can't prove it?
Maybe JLB can.

 

[Randy]

if Judas was such a bad guy why did Satan have to possess him in order to get him to betray Jesus?

Judas was called a thief as he helped himself to the collections/money bag beforehand of his betrayal. And the accounting shows all God had to so was pick someone who loved money so much they would betray even the Son of God for a large sum. (30 pieces of liver)
That is a bad tree not a good tree. As Jesus called Him a Devil. The one who tempts people by their own evil desires. The Love of money is the root of many evils. Judas's heart was already that way when He was selected in order to fulfill the scriptures. God doesn't tempt people to do evil and Jesus came to save.

John 12:6 NIV
He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

 

[JLB]

God can make any of us do anything.
Unless you believe that everything happens by chance.
In that case, where does God fit in?

As far as Judas goes, In Matthew and John it indicates he was not of his own mind to betray Jesus.
But in Mark he says it is better you were never born, so he had to of been in his own mind I think.
What do you think?

I believe we all have a choice to make.

Judas was called to follow Him as a disciple.

He responded to the call and did indeed follow the Lord as a disciple for 3 1/2 years then was promoted to an Apostle, along with the others.

Judas fell away into transgression and ended up becoming a traitor.

Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor. Luke 6:16

This one scripture is more than sufficient to prove Judas was part of God's kingdom for awhile.

You can not be a traitor to a country or kingdom you are not a part of.

He became a traitor.

Saul of Tarsus was an enemy of God's kingdom, then became became an apostle.

He was the one thing, then became the other.

Likewise Judas was a disciple of Jesus Christ, having believed, then became a traitor.


JLB

 

[JLB]

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.

22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”

23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
Matthew 16:21-23


JLB

 

[JLB]

Did Jesus not protect his lost sheep?
But Judas he let go.

Please share with us the scripture that says Jesus protected His lost sheep, but let Judas go.

Each of us has a choice to repent and turn back to God, if we become lost.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Does this scripture say those who were casting out demons were unbelievers? Certainly not!

This insinuates that.
Why else would you ask, other than argue?

Insinuates what.

Those who were casting out devils were other disciples who believed, but were not of the twelve.

They were believers.

One of the signs that follows believers is
"They will cast out devils".

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons;... Mark 16:17


JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I believe we all have a choice to make.

Judas was called to follow Him as a disciple.

He responded to the call and did indeed follow the Lord as a disciple for 3 1/2 years then was promoted to an Apostle, along with the others.

Judas fell away into transgression and ended up becoming a traitor.

Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor. Luke 6:16

This one scripture is more than sufficient to prove Judas was part of God's kingdom for awhile.

You be a traitor to a country or kingdom you are not a part of.

He became a traitor.

Saul of Tarsus was an enemy of God's kingdom, then became became an apostle.

He was the one thing, then became the other.

Likewise Judas was a disciple of Jesus Christ, having believed, then became a traitor.


JLB

I question that he believed.
Where does it say that?
Contrary, as I stated before, he always called Jesus Rabbi, he never called him Lord.
Doesn't that tell you something?

Judas hung around with Jesus, and then betrayed him.
That proves nothing.

 

[WIP]

I question that he believed.
Where does it say that?
Contrary, as I stated before, he always called Jesus Rabbi, he never called him Lord.
Doesn't that tell you something?

Judas hung around with Jesus, and then betrayed him.
That proves nothing.

Do did Peter and Thomas. How does that differ?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Do did Peter and Thomas. How does that differ?

The difference?
I think Peter and Thomas were saved.
They all called him Lord.
All except Judas.
What does that say to you?

 

[Justicewolf]

The topic we are discussing is Judas Iscariot.

My question was:

Do you believe Jesus empowers and sends "unbelievers" to preach the Gospel to the lost, as well as cast out devils, and heal the sick (which are signs that follow those who believe)?


JLB

Blessings. Now that you've refreshed your memory of this discussion, are you able to answer my question in post 56, as addressed to your posting of Matthew 10:1-10?
"Are Gentiles, non-Jews" not numbered among the sheep of the house of Israel?"
If you do not know, please let me know that. Thanks.