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LAW

you can argue with this if you want.... heaven and earth has not passed, yet.

Matthew 5:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 
Voicndwilderness said:
you can argue with this if you want.... heaven and earth has not passed, yet.

Matthew 5:17-19 King James Version (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
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... till all be fulfilled

Jesus fulfilled the Law, therefore the law has passed away, being obsolete.

If you want to keep the law of Moses, then you are required to keep all the law of Moses.

If you get to the temple Mount where the only place on Earth is acceptable to sacrifice the appropriate animal for your sins, and you notice the Temple is gone, then you can do what the Jews do, which is whatever is right in their own eyes.


JLB
 
Christ is the sacrifice... there is no more need to sacrifice animals.. that is what has been done away with. btw.... there is no Jew or Greek we are all one in Christ.....or we're supposed to be.... but some Jews and Greeks can be kinda hardheaded and hardhearted. all 613...that apply

anyways, seems there's no convincing either way. I'm going to keep it real and say we agree to disagree. :salute You, sir can have the last word.
 
Really is tough to understand.

Colossians 2:16-17
If not for a good Jewish author I would never understand. All that Jesus did was known at creation. The creation was created to show the coming of redemption. The reality / body is Christ Jesus. The shadows are: holy days , moon phases, sabbath days. Shadows are not made actual reality, but point to the reality. When you speak forth the meaning of a shadow, you then see the reality of the shadow fulfilled ( the reality may be revealed after the shadow). God can take a future reality back to the time of creation (to form a shadow to be revealed at a future time).

When Jesus explained parables to his disciples, IMHO, the parables (shadows of truth); became the true truth as Jesus explained the meaning. Truth is in parables, but truth is a hidden shadow; when Jesus explained the parable, fulfillment occurred.

Seeing through a glass darkly is rough. One day we will see clearly face to face .

eddif
 
gotta love that letter to the Colossians.......sad, he didn't say the same thing to the church in Corinth, where he stayed, working as a tentmaker for a year and six months preaching EVERY Sabbath day to Jews and Greeks.......ijs
 
Voicndwilderness said:
gotta love that letter to the Colossians.......sad, he didn't say the same thing to the church in Corinth, where he stayed, working as a tentmaker for a year and six months preaching EVERY Sabbath day to Jews and Greeks.......ijs
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i haven't heard this before, or thought about this either, or even know what you're talking about yet --- what did he teach 'different' to different ekklesia in different places ??
 
Paul taught on the Sabbath to Jews and Greeks... Act 18:4. There is no mention of the first day of the week change. In my opinion, to be "grafted in" means nothing's changed, just added and deleted, participants.
 
Voicndwilderness said:
Paul taught on the Sabbath to Jews and Greeks... Act 18:4. There is no mention of the first day of the week change. In my opinion, to be "grafted in" means nothing's changed, just added and deleted, participants.
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Are you saying that Paul didn't seek to preach on the first day also? Is it possible Paul went where there were the most to preach to?

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them . . - It seems improbable they could celebrate the Lord's Supper in a synagogue.


1Co 10:16
 
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Acts 15:19
Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The Gentiles would learn how to use the Law lawfully. There are aspects of the Law, that the Gentiles use. There was no need for the Gentiles to keep all the Law of Moses. A friendly visit to Jewish Christian worship, would help them understand.

There was fellowship between the Jews and Gentiles in Paul's day.
Acts 15:7
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men andbrethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even ashe did unto us;
9 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even ashe did unto us;
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Since there was acceptance between Jew and Gentile alike, I do not find it strange to hear of Jew and Gentile being taught together. I would think some Jewish persons would brave the circumcision party and attend Gentile worship (worship that agrees with Acts 15:15-17 ). I am poorly equipped to handle a full description of the tabernacle of David. As the one new man comes into fulness; then understanding grows. It is a shame that all the blossoming fellowship (of NT times) is just now being returned.

There is still rubble we trip over (from the wall Jesus broke down), but we are able to understand. Is it all easy to do? No not in our power, but in Holy Spirit the power is present. Jew and Gentile alike received the Holy Spirit .

Mississippi rednecks struggle.
eddif
 
Well, well, well! Jocor, you have declared that you are not a member of the Christ followers family so, who are you? Eugene, in this vein can be ignored as being an important member of the leadership team but Jocor, Eugene did define this discussion he was gracious enough to allow you to participate in and he has never, as I read it, discarded the right to continue defining this, his, string. Your comment calling him out was rude.

Now, as a Whole Bible Teacher I notice that there is a clear misunderstanding of the Mosaic Law and then we want to add another one thousand and fifty more? There are Ten Laws and the ten cover the thousands of explanations if how to keep the Ten. God, more so than anyone else understands we are a simple people and He is not cruel, loading us down with more than 1600 statutes that only He could ever keep.

As has been mentioned, the Mosaic Law, in spite of false teaching, was never meant to save a single person, even Abraham waited for the arrival of Jesus for his spirit to leave Paradise and to enter into his rest in God, in Heaven. In Matt. 27:52ish, I believe we see that the First of Three Resurrections, four if we count Lazarus, sent all of the Old Testament Saints to Heaven. (That is clearly Bill Taylor ideology and God may prove it wrong.)

Most New Testament/New Covenant Christians want to trash the Mosaic Law and I say, may it never be so! The Law of God, given to Moses by God, was, just as Paul taught us, is our Teacher. God is not overly concerned if we understand or not that 2+2=4 and that is not the lesson nor the lessons of the Inscribed In Stone Ten Commandments. The Law and the 603 examples of implementing them are for the soul purpose of teaching us to identify Sin!

Also now, this rather silly idea that the Gentiles have never been under the Law. If one takes the Ten Commandment in the same manor that a Policeman enforces the Speed Limit (silly idea) then every human that has lived since their inscription in stone has been condemned by them save those that accept God's Grace. Every human that has ever and every human that ever will exist is either condemned for not knowing these laws except they seek after God, or they are under God's Grace.
 
Voicndwilderness said:
Paul taught on the Sabbath to Jews and Greeks... Act 18:4. There is no mention of the first day of the week change. In my opinion, to be "grafted in" means nothing's changed, just added and deleted, participants.
Click to expand...

In your opinion, what is it we are "grafted in" to?


JLB
 
th1b.taylor said -

Also now, this rather silly idea that the Gentiles have never been under the Law.
Click to expand...

All people Jew and Gentile alike, are under the law of God.

Gentiles are not under the law of Moses.


JLB
 
JLB said:
All people Jew and Gentile alike, are under the law of God.

Gentiles are not under the law of Moses.


JLB
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JLB,
You seem to always deny it but you and I have hashed this point before and sadly, you seem to want to always attack. (Edited, ToS 2.14, "If you have observed a violation of the Terms of Service please let a Moderator or Administrator know." Obadiah) you have every right to your opinion (Edited, ToS 2.4, "Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general." Obadiah)

Can you agree to disagree?
 
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th1b.taylor said:
JLB,
You seem to always deny it but you and I have hashed this point before and sadly, you seem to want to always attack. That is a violation of the TOS and you have every right to your opinion just as I have chosen to follow God and to agree to disagree with you. Will you listen to God and cease jumping on me?

Can you agree to disagree?
Click to expand...

All people Jew and Gentile alike, are under the law of God.

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?




JLB
 
th1b.taylor said:
JLB,
You seem to always deny it but you and I have hashed this point before and sadly, you seem to want to always attack. That is a violation of the TOS and you have every right to your opinion just as I have chosen to follow God and to agree to disagree with you. Will you listen to God and cease jumping on me?

Can you agree to disagree?
Click to expand...


Gentiles are not under the law of Moses.


Do you agree or disagree with this statement?


JLB
 
JLB said:
All people Jew and Gentile alike, are under the law of God.

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?




JLB
Click to expand...
JLB,
(Edited, ToS 2.4,"Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general." Obadiah) all of God's creation does fall under the rule of God, Creator, Saviour and Master, as defined in the Law of God.
 
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JLB said:
Gentiles are not under the law of Moses.


Do you agree or disagree with this statement?


JLB
Click to expand...
JLB,
(Edited, ToS 2.4, "Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general." Obadiah) I use the common expression, Law Of Moses, because it has come to, in colloquial terminology, express the Ten Commands from the Hand of God. Even the average Lost Man is not fool enough to believe that the Ten Commandments are understood by Christians to be from the hand of Moses.

The Law of Moses and the Mosaic Law are colloquial terms that in reality, misnomers. The Ten Commandments are the Law of God and all men are required to be taught of them, period.

(Edited, ToS 2.14, "If you have observed a violation of the Terms of Service please let a Moderator or Administrator know. " Obadiah) (Edited, ToS 2.4, "Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general." Obadiah)
 
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I think that .....
If we are to obey the 10 Commandments then everyone that does not observe the 7th day Sabbath is not obeying God.
We cannot change any one of the 10 to fit something else. They meant what they meant, not what we would like them to mean.

If the Law of Moses is to teach us what sin is, then if we are not eating kosher, men wearing tallet with 4 tzitzit attached, etc. then we are in sin.
We can't have it both ways.
 
Deborah13 said:
I think that .....
If we are to obey the 10 Commandments then everyone that does not observe the 7th day Sabbath is not obeying God.
We cannot change any one of the 10 to fit something else. They meant what they meant, not what we would like them to mean.

If the Law of Moses is to teach us what sin is, then if we are not eating kosher, men wearing tallet with 4 tzitzit attached, etc. then we are in sin.
We can't have it both ways.
Click to expand...
You didn't name and you didn't quote, were you talking to anyone?
 
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