lest ye should be wise in your own conceits...

[Eventide]

Jews, Gentiles, and the church of God...

Here's what the Apostle to the GENTILES teaches the church of God...

Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

1. Jews (unsaved)
2. Gentiles (unsaved)
3. Church of God (saved, Jews and Gentiles)

That's how I see it... and the point is that these three exist today...

IN CHRIST (the church of God) there is neither Jew or Gentile..

OUTSIDE of Christ there is Jew and Gentile..

 

[Eventide]

Now, can anyone see logically (and scripturally of course) how that according to 1 Cor 10:32 that the church of God can't possibly be Israel ?

Think about it..

 

[Ryan]

Think about this:

11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

How you doing fellow Israelite???

 

[Ryan]

There is also that whole 1 Olive Tree thingy going on in Romans. Only one of the trees is feeding off the root, I never read of two separate trees. Well there is, but it ain't got a good supply of Jesus to feed from.

 

[jasoncran]

how is there outside of Christ a jew and gentile, when paul said that there is neither jew nor gentile, male or female, BUT the righteous and the unrighteous?

 

[Eventide]

Think about this:

11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

How you doing fellow Israelite???

Now if you would think before you write you would have remembered that IN CHRIST there is NEITHER Jew or Gentile..

Within the church of God there is NEITHER Jew or Gentile, but one new man from the two... if you would simply read further in Ephesians...

The other thing is the commonWEALTH of Israel...

Why in the world do people think that the WEALTH of Israel is Israel...? It's CHRIST...

Try as people may, there is not a single verse in the scriptures which teaches that the Israel of God is the church of God... this of course also does what this thread is about... it IGNORES the mystery pertaining to Israel and how that THEY (the nation of Israel) are blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in..

 

[Eventide]

There is also that whole 1 Olive Tree thingy going on in Romans. Only one of the trees is feeding off the root, I never read of two separate trees. Well there is, but it ain't got a good supply of Jesus to feed from.

This is another thing which many get confused over for some reason...

Christ is the ROOT.. and the offspring of David..

Christ is the commonWEALTH of Israel.. that Christians are blessed with today.

Another thing which many tend to forget is that ISRAEL is presently CUT OFF from the ROOT which is Christ... and their house is left DESOLATE... once again, until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

 

[Eventide]

Jerusalem.. trodden down of the GENTILES until the TIMES OF THE GENTILES be fulfilled

Not only does the Apostle to the Gentiles warn us about ignoring the mystery pertaining to Israel..

The Lord Himself speaks of Jerusalem being trodden down of the GENTILES until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled...

That's a wonderful study in and of itself.. and greatly detailed within the book of Daniel.

 

[Eventide]

As many often say... "You can't make this stuff up"...

It's simply what the word of God says.. plain as can be...

 

[Deborah13]

How you doing fellow Israelite

I'm dandy, how are you my brother?

And that Olive Tree with the good root, I see that it's the only one where righteousness can be found.

 

[Deborah13]

once again, until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

There is more than one fullness spoken of in these verses. I just don't see the Church complete without the fullness of the Jews, as well.
Paul spoke of two fullness', together. Not separate, imo.
Jew and Gentile together as one new creature, in the Anointed One, the Messiah, the Christ, the Seed of Abraham.

 

[Eventide]

once again, until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

There is more than one fullness spoken of in these verses. I just don't see the Church complete without the fullness of the Jews, as well.
Paul spoke of two fullness', together. Not separate, imo.
Jew and Gentile together as one new creature, in the Anointed One, the Messiah, the Christ, the Seed of Abraham.

Could you be more specific... what verse(s) are you speaking of here..

And on a side note.. what tribe are you from if you're an Israelite... ?

And on another side note... there is neither JEW or GENTILE in CHRIST.

 

[Eventide]

On another note...

Do people understand that ISRAEL is the only nation on earth that is not considered GENTILE ?

For a description of how the LORD divided the nations... see Genesis 10 with respect to Naoh's sons after the flood..

 

[Deborah13]

Do people understand that ISRAEL is the only nation on earth that is not considered GENTILE ?

Can you explain the Olive Tree, of Romans 11? Yes, than So explain please. If no......

 

[Eventide]

I am Di VINE and you are de branches...

When we read Romans 11 we should also be reminded about John 15 where we are plainly told that Christ is the VINE and we are the branches...

We also know that Christ is the ROOT and the offspring of David...

Scripture upon scripture...

The entire bible from beginning to end is about God's Son...

Romans 11 is about the mystery of Israel being cut off and also about the ability of God to graft them back into Himself.

Although from what I've seen around this forum... Many simply can't receive this... It's as if many refuse to believe that The Lord is going to save Israel in the end... after the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Eugene]

What are the members thoughts on what the "fullness of the gentiles" is?

The Times of the Gentiles began in 606 BC with Babylon, the first of four great empires given power.

I believe the Fullness of the Gentiles began in 43 AD with Jesus taking out a people for His name. Act 15:14, Romans 11:25. When did Jesus send Paul to the Gentiles? Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

How long will the Gentiles rule the world, and what are the judgments against the church? Revelation Chapters Two and Three. The times and fullness of the Gentiles will end at the same time.

 

[reba]

On another note...

Do people understand that ISRAEL is the only nation on earth that is not considered GENTILE ?

For a description of how the LORD divided the nations... see Genesis 10 with respect to Naoh's sons after the flood..

Here to read is are some highlights of a message from Peter....
1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

[Deborah13]

Re: I am Di VINE and you are de branches...

Romans 11 is about the mystery of Israel being cut off and also about the ability of God to graft them back into Himself.

that is not what I asked really. Who or what is the OLIVE TREE, represent? Not the vine, the olive tree.

There are only two groups, the saved believer and the unsaved nonbeliever.

The branches on the Olive Tree are saved, Those cut off by unbelief are not saved. They, the unsaved can be grafted back in, if they accept Jesus the Messiah. Those who are grafted onto the tree could also by unbelief be cut off. (therefore, one should not be arrogant, full of conceit, about those that have been cut off. Like a gentile believer is better than a jewish unbeliever because the gentile believer (once an unbeliever too) could be in the same boat)

It has always been the same, Cain and Abel, etc. right on down the line. We also know that faith and grace were always the way of righteousness, per Abraham.

When you started this thread was it to exam the content of this verse about conceit and the context of Romans 11 or was it to try to use it to try prove an end times doctrine?

 

[Deborah13]

Re: I am Di VINE and you are de branches...

We also know that Christ is the ROOT and the offspring of David...

When did this root begin? When did Christ first exist? The Alpha and the Omega?

Who is a branch on that tree? Abel, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David, Boaz, Ruth, Elijah, Jeremiah, The Apostles, all believers by faith and grace?
Who would you include on this tree?

I don't see that tree as the Church people since God came in the flesh, because that same One existed before He came in the flesh.
And I don't see that tree as the nation of Israel (as in those born into the Jewish bloodlines).

Even in the Torah there is a law that if one did not agree with Torah, they were put out of the nation of Israel, they were no longer considered to be of Israel.
They were outcasts into the world. Even then, it was not all about bloodlines! The nation was identified by being a peculiar people, the people who serviced the One true God.

Eventide, exactly who is the nation of Israel to you?? Are they Jews by blood, if so by who's standard? If Torah then many that claim to be Jews are not Jews of the nation. Even though Jewish blood DNA runs in their veins, under Torah for the nation citizenship of those OT days, they are not. Their mothers are not Jews.

From what I have read on Jewish sites, the Orthodox Jews would say even now, they are not Jews of the nation of Israel, children of the inheritance.
Now the Conservative group and the Reformed group believe differently. They accept those with Jewish fathers, as well. The Orthodox group, holds to all Torah and look forward to the Temple blood sacrifices for atonement and offerings. The Conservative, believe that some of this is no longer valid. The Reformed believe that the law can change.
Then of coarse there are the converted strangers, that are no longer strangers, do they inherit the promise, too?

So Eventide, just who is ISRAEL to you??

 

[Eventide]

I've spoken on Israel on numerous occasions and even started a thread on it.. I S R A E L ...

It's perfectly fine if people don't believe that or see it differently.

In fact, you're obviously free to believe whatever you would like about Israel.