lest ye should be wise in your own conceits...

[Eventide]

Nope, I think this answer was very clear. Thank you.

Good I'm glad !

 

[Deborah13]

What will the "fulness of the Gentiles be come in" look like? How will we know?

The rapture of the church of God shall come as a thief in the night (before that DAY) imo and the coming of Christ to deliver the nation of Israel in that Day.

So this answer Sinthesis' question and mine about when you see the "fullness of the Gentiles" will be, and how you will know.

You said you had answered these questions so I went back and looked at almost all your post and this was the closest I found, about the Day that is.

But I couldn't find one about the blindness question. If you will please just give a short reply.

Do you think Israel is partly blind? or Do you think part of Israel is blind?

 

[Eventide]

What will the "fulness of the Gentiles be come in" look like? How will we know?

The rapture of the church of God shall come as a thief in the night (before that DAY) imo and the coming of Christ to deliver the nation of Israel in that Day.

So this answer Sinthesis' question and mine about when you see the "fullness of the Gentiles" will be, and how you will know.

You said you had answered these questions so I went back and looked at almost all your post and this was the closest I found, about the Day that is.

But I couldn't find one about the blindness question. If you will please just give a short reply.

Do you think Israel is partly blind? or Do you think part of Israel is blind?

The fulness of the Gentiles within the context of Romans 11 is speaking of when the Lord is finished building His church... which is now predominantly Gentile.

So imo the only one who will know that is the LORD... it's His church.. although that's not the point.. the point is to not be ignorant of Israel's blindness because it is only temporary... ie, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

As for being blinded in part... what this means to me is the leadership of Israel... the rulers who rejected Christ as their Messiah and King.. so IOW, any Israelite can be saved today just as any Gentile can through the gospel of God's Son, but it's the leadership of that nation which continues to reject Christ even until this day..

If we look back in the book of Acts we see that this is what happened... it wasn't your average Israelite who was rejecting Christ... it was the Pharisees, the Saducees, etc.. the rulers of that nation.

So that's what im part means to me... imo..

 

[jasoncran]

ok so isreal being only at the most 10% of the population of the world at any given time. will then be the light to lead the gentiles who in the millennium will need Christ. yet the church is not seen and removed and in heaven being 90% gentile and 10% Hebrew. what exactly is the difference?

jews comprise 6% of the world population and that isn't taking into account the other Hebrews.

 

[Deborah13]

So that's what im part means to me... imo..

Oh that's all very different than what I thought, you thought. I'm sorry, my fault not your's, I must have missed a post or two.

Thank you again, for your clear answer. It makes it easier to know what one is responding to, in part.

Blessings to you.

 

[Eventide]

So that's what im part means to me... imo..

Oh that's all very different than what I thought, you thought. I'm sorry, my fault not your's, I must have missed a post or two.

Thank you again, for your clear answer. It makes it easier to know what one is responding to, in part.

Blessings to you.

No fault of yours Deb, you know how short I am with discussing these things :-(

Some refer to Israel's blindness as judicial in that it's a judgment upon Israel from The Lord Himself... once again, until a certain time... and in this case it's until the fullness of Gentiles come into Christ... and it doesn't necessarily mean that Israelites can't believe... It's the judgment upon that nation (blindness) until then..

Then shall the Deliverer come from Sion and turn ungodliness from who ?

From Jacob...

The one who wrestled with the man all night... The one who was deceived into believing that the son of his old age was dead... Jacob... The one who learned late in his years that his son was alive and ruler over all..

The night is far spent.. The Day is at hand...

 

[reba]

What are the members thoughts on what the "fullness of the gentiles" is?

 

[Deborah13]

What are the members thoughts on what the "fullness of the gentiles" is?

You know, I'm never sure I've got a grasp on what that means. It's never quite clear. But I have thought that this was speaking of when the gospel had been preached by the Apostles and their immediate disciples to the known world. So that the Gospel message had been firmly planted in the gentile nations.

 

[Ryan]

What are the members thoughts on what the "fullness of the gentiles" is?

You know, I'm never sure I've got a grasp on what that means. It's never quite clear. But I have thought that this was speaking of when the gospel had been preached by the Apostles and their immediate disciples to the known world. So that the Gospel message had been firmly planted in the gentile nations.

Go back to Genesis 48:19 and start from there as that is the first time that term was used. Have to look at it in the Hebrew though to see it.

 

[Deborah13]

What are the members thoughts on what the "fullness of the gentiles" is?

You know, I'm never sure I've got a grasp on what that means. It's never quite clear. But I have thought that this was speaking of when the gospel had been preached by the Apostles and their immediate disciples to the known world. So that the Gospel message had been firmly planted in the gentile nations.

Romans 11 KJV
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

I don't see here or in the Greek where this fullness is relative to "numbers" (I think some translations have taken liberty with the text, such as the NIV in this regard). Paul speaks of it as riches, so maybe we could say a richness.
I don't feel that the Church can be "complete" without them, anymore than it can be complete without the gentiles. The "Church" is not the full, rich (spiritually) without them.
When I look at the Greek interlinear it says for the word 'fulness' "complement".

Every time I have prayed about this scripture I get the same thing. The Church is not the Church without them. The Church (the body of Christ) is not complete without them.

 

[Deborah13]

What are the members thoughts on what the "fullness of the gentiles" is?

You know, I'm never sure I've got a grasp on what that means. It's never quite clear. But I have thought that this was speaking of when the gospel had been preached by the Apostles and their immediate disciples to the known world. So that the Gospel message had been firmly planted in the gentile nations.

Go back to Genesis 48:19 and start from there as that is the first time that term was used. Have to look at it in the Hebrew though to see it.

Thanks Ryan, I will do that.

 

[Deborah13]

What are the members thoughts on what the "fullness of the gentiles" is?

You know, I'm never sure I've got a grasp on what that means. It's never quite clear. But I have thought that this was speaking of when the gospel had been preached by the Apostles and their immediate disciples to the known world. So that the Gospel message had been firmly planted in the gentile nations.

Go back to Genesis 48:19 and start from there as that is the first time that term was used. Have to look at it in the Hebrew though to see it.

Oh yes, I think I see what you are saying. That seed of many nations are seed, of the Seed.

 

[Ryan]

What are the members thoughts on what the "fullness of the gentiles" is?

You know, I'm never sure I've got a grasp on what that means. It's never quite clear. But I have thought that this was speaking of when the gospel had been preached by the Apostles and their immediate disciples to the known world. So that the Gospel message had been firmly planted in the gentile nations.

Go back to Genesis 48:19 and start from there as that is the first time that term was used. Have to look at it in the Hebrew though to see it.

Oh yes, I think I see what you are saying. That seed of many nations are seed, of the Seed.

Yes, the story of who is of God's firstborn plays out again with Ephraim and Manasseh I believe.

 

[gr8grace]

What are the members thoughts on what the "fullness of the gentiles" is?

One aspect, very briefly, is until Christ has his exact number of individuals in place in His Church or Body.

The aspect that gets lost for the most part are "nations". The Gentiles are Gods Client nations to the world in this present time. Israel lost their client nation status in 70 AD. The Nation of Israel suffered from discipline from God and lost Their role to "deliver the Gospel" to the Gentiles.

The gentile nations "deliver the Gospel" to the world now as Gods Client nations. I see the "fullness of the gentiles" comes in when these nations stop delivering this message. We can all see that we(USA) have been a client nation, and How this nation has really started to suppress the Gospel. We are losing our status as a client nation for God.

So I see one aspect of the"fullness of the gentiles" as a national status also, The gentile nations had their"full" chance at proclaiming the Gospel to the world. When the gentile nations won't deliver Gods message anymore.God takes over with the rapture,the tribulation, the second advent and the 1000 years.

 

[Sinthesis]

Go back to Genesis 48:19 and start from there as that is the first time that term was used. Have to look at it in the Hebrew though to see it.

Oh yes, I think I see what you are saying. That seed of many nations are seed, of the Seed.

Yes, the story of who is of God's firstborn plays out again with Ephraim and Manasseh I believe.

If you look at the last verse of Gen 48, you see that Israel, in granting two shares to Joseph through Ephriam and Manasseh, has in effect made Joseph his firstborn. This makes the first son of his second wife greater than the first son of his first wife.

We also have Ephriam and Manasseh being grafted into the Hebrews even though their mother was gentile. Further, the adoption was done while Israel could barely see.

 

[Deborah13]

Further, the adoption was done while Israel could barely see.

So I've been reading the account again, I never tied in Jacob (Israel's blindness) with Romans 11.
I need to read again....

 

[reba]

@Sinthesis

When I look up the meaning of gentile I read this...

G1484
ἔθνος
ethnos
eth'-nos
Probably from G1486; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.


I am not pagan nor am I heathen...

Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Christ is the Elect of God if we are in Him are we heathen?

What I am asking Sinthesis is what is your take on the word gentile?




ADDED post 195 has some interesting hints.

 

[Sinthesis]

[MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION]
My take is probably the same as yours in that I believe it is a false distinction today.
However the separation was once useful in that it identified to the rest of the world the people and culture through which the Messiah would come, as well as allowed Israel to serve as a witness to the entire world as to what beliefs and behavior God judged as righteous or unrighteous.

 

[Eventide]

Jews, Gentiles, and the church of God...

Here's what the Apostle to the GENTILES teaches the church of God...

Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

 

[Deborah13]

Re: Jews, Gentiles, and the church of God...

Here's what the Apostle to the GENTILES teaches the church of God...

Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

1. Jews (unsaved)
2. Gentiles (unsaved)
3. Church of God (saved, Jews and Gentiles)