lest ye should be wise in your own conceits...

[Eugene]

Normally I like to leave threads take their own course, but words of judgment soon deteriorate into arguments instead of godly discourse. Please choose your words wisely so that I don’t have to begin editing. Thanks all.

 

[John 8:32]

P.S. There is only one Renewed Covenant in Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 that is only with the House of Judah and the House of Israel. Someone please show me a scripture that says in the same covenant language another covenant with a separate entity called the church. One cannot find it. If you think there is another covenant with "the church" separate from the covenant with Israel, one cannot find it. It takes a twisting of scriptures, and a dispensational twist to it to come up with that conclusion.

Exactly, and if one reads what Hebrews 8 says instead of what we are told it says, this Covenant is not established yet. It will be at the time of the return of Christ...

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Now when is it that all know the Lord?

Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Mic 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Mic 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

The glorious rest of the Millenium shadowed today by the Sabbath.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

There is a big difference between being ready to eat dinner and to have already eaten dinner.

 

[John 8:32]

So who is teaching believers today that the church of God is Israel ?

We have a person teaching this over in the Apologetics Forum..

Why ?

I had no idea this thread was even here. As I already pointed out in "Is Dispensationalism Darwinism?" in God's eyes, Israel is only those who belief in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob revealed through his Son Jesus. [MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION] made such an important point on the previous page about who got the birthright. It was the 2nd son. God is making such an important point here that is foundational for the rest of scriptures. The birthright was not based on anything physical, it was based on faithfulness.

Genesis 22:2
He said, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.â€

How many physical sons did Abraham at this time? Did he not have Ishmael as well? So then why did God tell him to take his only son? It was because in God's eyes, his son is the one who has the "seed of faith" in them, not the physical seed. If Ishmael had the seed of faith in him, he would have received the birthright, but he was a wild donkey of a man. This is played out after this so we get the idea that God only calls his own who believe in him. This is foundational so when we get to the Gospels, we know what is being played out. So when we get to the Pharisees in Luke 3:8, God is no respector of persons and what does it matter if you are of the physical lineage of Abraham he is saying? It means nothing, unless you believed in Jesus. IMO

actually jesus if Rueben didn't sin would have been from the line Rueben not Judah. Judah wasn't Jacob's firstborn either neither was the son of Judah as his sons died.

And if you aunt had t*******s she'd be your uncle, but she don't so she ain't.

 

[jasoncran]

rueben slept with his fathers wife. his own aunt!

 

[Eventide]

Back to the topic..

How does one become wise in their own conceits ?

There are a few ways, although one way is to do exactly as the Apostle to the Gentiles says...

Be ignorant of the mystery pertaining to Israel...

Which is ?

How that they (the nation of Israel) are blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Ignore this simple biblical fact and you'll be as Paul says...

Wise in your own conceits.

 

[Eventide]

So how important is it for the Christian to understand the mystery pertaining to Israel lest they do become wise in their own conceits..?

 

[Sinthesis]

So how important is it for the Christian to understand the mystery pertaining to Israel lest they do become wise in their own conceits..?

It's not salvational. Clearly there is not even agreement as to what the mystery even is. I think the main theme is a warning to Christians to not become conceited in their apparent favored status with God vis-à-vis the Jews/Israel.

 

[Eventide]

So how important is it for the Christian to understand the mystery pertaining to Israel lest they do become wise in their own conceits..?

It's not salvational. Clearly there is not even agreement as to what the mystery even is. I think the main theme is a warning to Christians to not become conceited in their apparent favored status with God vis-à-vis the Jews/Israel.

Doesn't matter one iota if people don't agree with what the Apostle to the Gentiles says... and that is that ISRAEL is blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

Now of course preterists could not receive this simple truth because they teach the nonsense that the Lord came in AD70... something which most of them can't even admit publically from what I've seen.. Edited for rudeness
I don't understand why anyone would do things like that... let alone a person who claims to be a Christian... but we see it day after day don't we..

 

[Deborah13]

Now of course preterists could not receive this simple truth because they teach the nonsense that the Lord came in AD70...

Well Eventide, I'm not a preterist. Jesus is coming again.

But I don't see this scripture the why you do. In fact, I agree with Sinthesis, we are not to be conceited in thinking we as Gentiles are prefer over the Jews.

 

[Eventide]

Now of course preterists could not receive this simple truth because they teach the nonsense that the Lord came in AD70...

Well Eventide, I'm not a preterist. Jesus is coming again.

Good for you...

But I don't see this scripture the why you do. In fact, I agree with Sinthesis, we are not to be conceited in thinking we as Gentiles are prefer over the Jews.

If that's how you'd like to read that Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, then go right ahead Deb...

 

[Eventide]

The way that I see it is...

That Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles come in...

 

[Sinthesis]

So how important is it for the Christian to understand the mystery pertaining to Israel lest they do become wise in their own conceits..?

It's not salvational. Clearly there is not even agreement as to what the mystery even is. I think the main theme is a warning to Christians to not become conceited in their apparent favored status with God vis-à-vis the Jews/Israel.

Doesn't matter one iota if people don't agree with what the Apostle to the Gentiles says... and that is that ISRAEL is blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

Now of course preterists could not receive this simple truth because they teach the nonsense that the Lord came in AD70... something which most of them can't even admit publically from what I've seen.. and they can't stay in their own forum... they must preach their nonsense everywhere.

I don't understand why anyone would do things like that... let alone a person who claims to be a Christian... but we see it day after day don't we..

Full preterists are nuts and heretics. Jesus is coming again. But until He does could you paraphrase what Paul means by "ISRAEL is blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in" please? How is Israel blinded? Does "part" modify Israel or their blindness? What will the "fulness of the Gentiles be come in" look like? How will we know?

 

[Eventide]

So how important is it for the Christian to understand the mystery pertaining to Israel lest they do become wise in their own conceits..?

It's not salvational. Clearly there is not even agreement as to what the mystery even is. I think the main theme is a warning to Christians to not become conceited in their apparent favored status with God vis-à-vis the Jews/Israel.

Doesn't matter one iota if people don't agree with what the Apostle to the Gentiles says... and that is that ISRAEL is blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.

Now of course preterists could not receive this simple truth because they teach the nonsense that the Lord came in AD70... something which most of them can't even admit publically from what I've seen.. and they can't stay in their own forum... they must preach their nonsense everywhere.

I don't understand why anyone would do things like that... let alone a person who claims to be a Christian... but we see it day after day don't we..

Full preterists are nuts and heretics. Jesus is coming again. But until He does could you paraphrase what Paul means by "ISRAEL is blinded in part until the fulness of the GENTILES be come in" please? How is Israel blinded? Does "part" modify Israel or their blindness? What will the "fulness of the Gentiles be come in" look like? How will we know?

Already did that and had the trolls come in with their nonsense and move the thread to their forum..

So pardon me for not going there again and again and again...

If you don't know who Israel is after all the scriptures declare, then I'm sorry. My comment will not help you at all and it will certainly be ignored anyway.

 

[Eventide]

Jesus is coming again

So just for the record... could you tell us what scripture you base this upon exactly ?

Thanks

 

[Sinthesis]

Jesus is coming again

So just for the record... could you tell us what scripture you base this upon exactly ?

Thanks

Already did that.

 

[Eventide]

Jesus is coming again

So just for the record... could you tell us what scripture you base this upon exactly ?

Thanks

Already did that.

I know... just checking.

Thanks

 

[Deborah13]

This is why the APOSTLE to the GENTILES was raised up... to take the gospel of God's Son to the ends of the EARTH while Israel remains cut off and blinded in part..

Their partial blindness will last only UNTIL the fulness of the GENTILES be come in... this will be when CHRIST has FINISHED building His church which is based upon the confession of Jesus of Nazareth as LORD and Christ... something which Israel has not yet done...

But they will, in that DAY, the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ... which shall come as a thief in the NIGHT and as travail upon a woman with child..

Just what Day of the Lord, do you think this is? Rapture or the Second Coming or what?

 

[Eventide]

Anyone else have a different interpretation for this...

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

IOW... if it's not simply saying what it is saying, then what is it saying ?

 

[Eventide]

Just what Day of the Lord, do you think this is? Rapture or the Second Coming or what?

The Day of the LORD... there is only one, and it shall come as the Apostles (both the Apostle to the Gentiles and the Apostles to the circumcision) declare...

The rapture of the church of God shall come as a thief in the night (before that DAY) imo and the coming of Christ to deliver the nation of Israel in that Day.

The Day is a thousand years... literally... it's described in miraculous detail for us in Rev 4-20.

Is that good enough deb... or will you continue to think that I only demand answers for myself... ?

 

[Deborah13]

Just what Day of the Lord, do you think this is? Rapture or the Second Coming or what?

The Day of the LORD... there is only one, and it shall come as the Apostles (both the Apostle to the Gentiles and the Apostles to the circumcision) declare...

The rapture of the church of God shall come as a thief in the night (before that DAY) imo and the coming of Christ to deliver the nation of Israel in that Day.

The Day is a thousand years... literally... it's described in miraculous detail for us in Rev 4-20.

Is that good enough deb... or will you continue to think that I only demand answers for myself... ?

Nope, I think this answer was very clear. Thank you.