Limited Atonement - TULIP

[JLB]

Are you a universalist?

Did Christ's blood paid for the sins of every human that ever lived?

Do you believe what Jesus said?

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” This He said, signifying by what death He would die.
John 12:32-33

• And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.

Jesus draws all people to Himself for salvation.

Whether they choose to believe or not is up to them.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2


These words are from Jesus Christ and are referred to as the truth.

 

[electedbyHim]

Do you believe what Jesus said?

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” This He said, signifying by what death He would die.
John 12:32-33

• And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.

Jesus draws all people to Himself for salvation.

Whether they choose to believe or not is up to them.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2


These words are from Jesus Christ and are referred to as the truth.

The truth is, you did not answer my question.

 

[JLB]

The truth is, you did not answer my question.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


He is the propitiation for our sins and for the world.


He is the atonement; the price, the means by which God is appeased or satisfied for the sins of the world, as well as our sins.

Our sins and the world covers all people.

This price was paid for all. Unfortunately not all will be saved be cause each person must choose to believe.

 

[electedbyHim]

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2


He is the propitiation for our sins and for the world.


He is the atonement; the price, the means by which God is appeased or satisfied for the sins of the world, as well as our sins.

Our sins and the world covers all people.

This price was paid for all. Unfortunately not all will be saved be cause each person must choose to believe.

View attachment 17592

So you are a universalist and no one will go to hell.

Not sure why you just cannot answer the question.

 

[JLB]

So you are a universalist and no one will go to hell.

I’m a Christian; a follower of Jesus Christ.

I don’t recognize man made names to label people.

 

[electedbyHim]

I’m a Christian; a follower of Jesus Christ.

I don’t recognize man made names to label people.

If Jesus dies for every person whoever lived, why is there a hell?

The sin of unbelief would be covered by Christ's blood.

Think about that for a minute.

 

[JLB]

If Jesus dies for every person whoever lived, why is there a hell?

The sin of unbelief would be covered by Christ's blood.

Think about that for a minute.

The price for everyone’s salvation was paid for by Jesus Christ at the cross.

Not everyone will believe.


Do you confess your sins to God, so as to be forgiven?

 

[electedbyHim]

The price for everyone’s salvation was paid for by Jesus Christ at the cross.

Not everyone will believe.


Do you confess your sins to God, so as to be forgiven?

The price for everyone’s salvation was paid for by Jesus Christ at the cross.
Not everyone will believe.

The sin of unbelief would be covered by Christ's blood if you believe that everyones salvation was paid for.

Meaning that those who would not believe will go to heaven.

You do not see a flaw in that?

Do you confess your sins to God, so as to be forgiven?

Not sure what that has to do with anything.

 

[JLB]

The sin of unbelief would be covered by Christ's blood if you believe that everyones salvation was paid for.

Meaning that those who would not believe will go to heaven.

You do not see a flaw in that?

Unbelief disqualifies a person from salvation.

The condition for salvation is to believe.

There are two distinct points being made here.

1. For a person to become saved they must believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe = saved


2. For a person to remain saved they must continue to believe.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away

Believe for a while = saved for a while.

Temporary believing = Temporary Salvation


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2

• by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word

If we believe then no longer believe, our believing that we did to get saved was done in vain.

 

[JLB]

Not sure what that has to do with anything.

It’s a question I asked.


Do you confess your sins in order to be forgiven your sins?

IOW’s do people who are Calvinist believe this scripture and there practice what it teaches?

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

 

[Fish153]

"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: WHOSE HEART THE LORD OPENED, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul". (Acts 16: 14)

"Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that GOD WILL GRANT THEM repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. (2 Timothy 2:25, 26)

These two verses clearly show God being the one who causes people to come to Him. I believe election is a mystery---but is two-sided (like a two edged sword). All (John 3:16) are called to come to Christ---but only some are chosen. Do I understand it? No---I do not. To a mind using human logic it seems "unfair". "How can ALL be called---but only SOME be chosen (the elect)?" But as was pointed out by someone above, "none can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them". Jesus also says in John 17 that he has lost NONE of those that THE FATHER HAS GIVEN HIM. In John 21 the net is thrown out and DOES NOT BREAK----and all 153 fish are drawn to shore. I believe this 153 represents the ELECT---NONE of them will be lost---they were pre-ordained (just like the fish in the net) to be redeemed and brought to Heaven. it is a total mystery that none of us can fully understand---we are finite beings trying to understand the will of an INFINITE BEING. That is impossible. One day we will understand, even if we cannot grasp it now.

 

[electedbyHim]

Unbelief disqualifies a person from salvation.

The condition for salvation is to believe.

There are two distinct points being made here.

1. For a person to become saved they must believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe = saved


2. For a person to remain saved they must continue to believe.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away

Believe for a while = saved for a while.

Temporary believing = Temporary Salvation


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2

• by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word

If we believe then no longer believe, our believing that we did to get saved was done in vain.

That is really horrible theology and the parable does not teach that.

 

[JLB]

That is really horrible theology and the parable does not teach that.

Yes that’s exactly what Jesus taught.

That’s exactly what Paul taught.

That’s exactly what Hebrews taught.

Thats exactly what Peter taught.

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


The condition for salvation is to believe.

There are two distinct points being made here.

1. For a person to become saved they must believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe = saved


2. For a person to remain saved they must continue to believe.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away

Believe for a while = saved for a while.

Temporary believing = Temporary Salvation


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2

• by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word

If we believe then no longer believe, our believing that we did to get saved was done in vain.

 

[electedbyHim]

Yes that’s exactly what Jesus taught.

That’s exactly what Paul taught.

That’s exactly what Hebrews taught.

Thats exactly what Peter taught.

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14


The condition for salvation is to believe.

There are two distinct points being made here.

1. For a person to become saved they must believe.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe = saved


2. For a person to remain saved they must continue to believe.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away

Believe for a while = saved for a while.

Temporary believing = Temporary Salvation


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2

• by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word

If we believe then no longer believe, our believing that we did to get saved was done in vain.

Belief is a gift from God. it does not come from self.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Calvinists don't like "common ground"; they want conformity to their view. Period.

How can you possibly talk about all Calvinists that way? Do you know all Calvinists, Tenchi?

 

[Tenchi]

How can you possibly talk about all Calvinists that way? Do you know all Calvinists, @Tenchi?

Where do you see the word "all" in my statement?

 

[JLB]

Belief is a gift from God. it does not come from self.

Believe is our part that we do in response to the Gospel.

Believe is a verb. Faith is a noun.

Biblical believing caries the idea of obedience.

That’s why we see the phrase “obey the Gospel” as well as
“Believe”…

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17

God does not do our believing or obeying. That’s our choice.

That’s our “work” that God gives us the opportunity to do or not do.

Believe and obey are used interchangeably in scripture.

God does give us grace; the God given ability that enables us to obey.

Grace and faith are a gift from God.

However, faith must have the “work” of obedience, otherwise faith is dead; dormant or inactive.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Do you believe what Jesus said?

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” This He said, signifying by what death He would die.
John 12:32-33

• And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.

Jesus draws all people to Himself for salvation.

Whether they choose to believe or not is up to them.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2


These words are from Jesus Christ and are referred to as the truth.

You could also include John 12:31 in your quote:
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
Joh 12:33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

When Jesus said that he was drawing all people to himself, he didn't add the words "for salvation," the way you did. He explained that the "drawing" was to final judgment, not just for salvation, as he said in Matthew 25:31-46:

Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world....
Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[JLB]

When Jesus said that he was drawing all people to himself, he didn't add the words "for salvation," the way you did.

Jesus said He would draw all men.

Just because He draws us doesn’t mean we will respond by believing.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The elect is a reference to the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and specific individuals whom were chosen by God to be the generational bloodline of the Messiah.

The "elect" is a quota, the body consisted of God's people from both Jews and Gentiles. John saw them in the 5th seal, in which they were martyred for bearing the testimony of Christ, "fellow servants" are Gentiles, "their brethren" are Jews, and there's a specific sum total of their number. Jesus taught that "many are called, but few are chosen", the elect are the chosen ones out of the called ones.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” ;Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. (Rev. 6:9-11)