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Limited Atonement - TULIP

Brother, we as Christians in whatever stage of growth we are in, live in a sinful world among sinners.


That’s just the way it is until Christ returns.
Good, that's your answer, and my understanding of Limited Atonement - the difference between Jesus's first coming and second coming. He sowed in his first coming, he'll reap in his second coming.
I’m sharing on the subject of Limited Atonement. This is the topic of this thread.
I've told you that I disagree on that. I only believe in a predetermined QUOTA, to which everyone on earth has access, but at the end only a few will make it, for broad is the road to destruction, and narrow is the path to eternal life. The only predetermined group is the 144,000 out of the 12 tribes of Israel.
 
The only predetermined group is the 144,000 out of the 12 tribes of Israel.

And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”
Revelation 7:4-10

In addition to the 144,000 from the tribes of Israel, there is a great multitude that no one can number, who are in heaven, standing before the throne of God and the Lamb.


Maybe you should re-think your perspective.
 
Maybe you should re-think your perspective.
No man can number, but angel can. Bible doesn't contradict itself.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” ;Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. (Rev. 6:9-11)
 
So far the idea of Limited Atonement has yet to be identified in scripture.

That is really horrible theology and the parable does not teach that.

Yet it’s what Jesus and His Apostles plainly taught as I have written.

The condition for salvation is to believe.

There are two distinct points being made here.

  1. For a person to become saved they must believe.
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

  • lest they should believe and be saved.
Believe = saved


2. For a person to remain saved they must continue to believe.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

  • who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away
Believe for a while = saved for a while.

Temporary believing = Temporary Salvation


Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2

  • by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word

If we no longer believe, our believing that we did to get saved was done in vain.
 
So far the idea of Limited Atonement has yet to be identified in scripture
I've identified it for you a hundred times. You just won't accept it.

Jesus divides humanity up into two groups. sheep and goats.

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

John 10:15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

There's your limited atonement. He lays down His life - sheds His blood for the sheep and not for the goats.
 
Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

The goats and sheep are referring to His people, His servants, as the context so plainly states.


The Faithful Servant and the Unfaithful Servant

“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Matthew 24:45-46

This is not about whom He chose for salvation, but who of His people chose to be faith verses those who chose to be unfaithful.

The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins

Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. Matthew 25:1-5

5 virgins chose to be wise and faithful and took oil for there lamps.


The Parable of the Talents

14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. Matthew 25:14-15

All of His servants were given a measure of talents.

The unfaithful servant of His chose to do nothing with what he was given.


This is the context of Matthew 25:31-45
 
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The goats and sheep are referring to His people, His servants, as the context so plainly states.


The Faithful Servant and the Unfaithful Servant

“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Matthew 24:45-46

This is not about whom He chose for salvation, but who of His people chose to be faith verses those who chose to be unfaithful.

The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins

Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. Matthew 25:1-5

5 virgins chose to be wise and faithful and took oil for there lamps.


The Parable of the Talents

14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. Matthew 25:14-15

All of His servants were given a measure of talents.

The unfaithful servant of His chose to do nothing with what he was given.


This is the context of Matthew 25:31-45

The goats and sheep are referring to His people, His servants, as the context so plainly states.
You do not understand.

The goats are unbelievers.

Mathewt 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
 
You do not understand.

The goats are unbelievers.

Mathewt 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Yes of course, that what’s you always say…

You don’t understand…

I guess you didn’t read the actual scriptures and context.

For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them…

And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:14,30

What does His own servants mean to you in this teaching?

Do you honestly believe His own servants refers to servants of the devil?
 
Do you honestly believe His own servants refers to servants of the devil?
Hmmm.... mocking someone about what is actually written ?

Jesus knows which of His Own servants/chosen disciples/ are a demon.
 
Yes of course, that what’s you always say…

You don’t understand…

I guess you didn’t read the actual scriptures and context.

For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them…

And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:14,30

What does His own servants mean to you in this teaching?

Do you honestly believe His own servants refers to servants of the devil?



Maybe you could read the scriptures and actually address what is written.
I did not post about the parables of the talents.

I posted about the final judgement of the sheep and the goats (believers and unbelievers).

Matthew 25:31-46.

You told Whatever that the sheep and goats are believers, but that is not true.
 
I did not post about the parables of the talents.

I posted about the final judgement of the sheep and the goats (believers and unbelievers).

Matthew 25:31-46.

You told Whatever that the sheep and goats are believers, but that is not true.
Actually, "the least of these my brethren" are believers who faithfully live by the word of God, defined not by me but Lord Jesus himself (Matt. 12:48-50). Sheep and goats are the nations who treat the believers well and others who mistreat them. In essence it's the Abrahamic covenant - I'll bless those who bless you and I'll curse those who curse you.
 
Actually, "the least of these my brethren" are believers who faithfully live by the word of God, defined not by me but Lord Jesus himself (Matt. 12:48-50). Sheep and goats are the nations who treat the believers well and others who mistreat them. In essence it's the Abrahamic covenant - I'll bless those who bless you and I'll curse those who curse you.
The sheep are believers and the goats are unbelievers. It is about the final judgement and we know that no one gets into heaven based on works—good works are evidence of one’s faith.
 
Hmmm.... mocking someone about what is actually written ?

This is a simple question I asked.
It’s not mocking.

Do you honestly believe His own servants refers to servants of the devil?

His own servants refers to His people.

Jesus knows which of His Own servants/chosen disciples/ are a demon.

They way the scripture teaches us which of His disciples will inherit the kingdom of God or not is by their deeds… what they did with the measure they were given.

Those of His people who actually were fruitful and loved people by giving them food, clothing, visiting them in prison, caring for them are the ones who inherited the kingdom of God.


Those who did nothing, like the servant who buried their talent, did not inherit the kingdom of God.
 
This is a simple question I asked.
It’s not mocking.

Do you honestly believe His own servants refers to servants of the devil?

His own servants refers to His people.



They way the scripture teaches us which of His disciples will inherit the kingdom of God or not is by their deeds… what they did with the measure they were given.

Those of His people who actually were fruitful and loved people by giving them food, clothing, visiting them in prison, caring for them are the ones who inherited the kingdom of God.


Those who did nothing, like the servant who buried their talent, did not inherit the kingdom of God.
You’re teaching salvation by works. That is antithetical to the gospel.
 
I did not post about the parables of the talents.

I posted about the final judgement of the sheep and the goats (believers and unbelievers).

Matthew 25:31-46.

You told @Whatever that the sheep and goats are believers, but that is not true.

Both sheep and goats represent (parabolic language) His people; those who were faithful as well as those who were unfaithful.

Those who were fruitful and those who were unfruitful.

I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit… If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-2,6


Those who were obedient and those who were disobedient.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews
 
You’re teaching salvation by works. That is antithetical to the gospel.

I’m teaching bible scripture.

Please address the actual scripture I presented.

Are you aware those who are in Christ can indeed be removed from Him because they are unfruitful.


Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:2

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


These were at one time in Christ, then they were no longer in Him.
 
And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful. Titus 3:14
 
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:2
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:
These were at one time in Christ, then they were no longer in Him.
Men may be said to be branches in him, by a sacramental implantation, being baptized into him, and are hereby members of the visible church, and make a visible profession of adhering to him, with respect to their own good opinion and persuasions of themselves, though they be not so in respect of any true, spiritual, and real implantation. But those who in the last sense are not in him, bring forth no fruit unto perfection, and God will cut them off.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

These people came to Jesus calling Him Lord. Jesus says He never knew them.
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep,

They were never His sheep - true believers, but baptized hypocrites.
 
Men may be said to be branches in him, by a sacramental implantation,

Sacramental implantation?


Brother, if a person is in Christ then they are joined to Him being one spirit with Him, and thus they have eternal life; being joined as one spirit with the Spirit of Life in Christ.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:1-2


He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12
 
Sacramental implantation?
Yes! If an Atheist comes to your Church for a joke and you don't know who he is, and he goes up and makes a profession of faith and gets baptized (laughing inside all the time) your Pastor is going to say "today we have a new Christian who was baptized into Christ's death. Welcome the new brother."

You will say hallelujah a new branch added to the vine. But since he was joking, he will be cut out at some future date.
 
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