Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[Elf]

If man is responsible for keeping himself saved, then no man will ever see the kingdom of God.

Aint that the truth!

 

[destiny]

If man is responsible for keeping himself saved, then no man will ever see the kingdom of God.

Aint that the truth!

...so man holds no responsibility at all in walking out his salvation? Is that what you are saying?

 

[Elf]

This is what Paul thought of those who taught and lived out the OSAS lifestyle

Now this should be interesting since Paul taught and lived it also.

Philippians 3
17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Hmmm, as you assuming these are Christians? Prove it! Surely you have scriptures to prove it, no?

If your will was to please God you would not need the OSAS doctrine,

What does OSAS have to do with one's will?

but since you want it both ways, to fulfill the lust of your flesh and get into Heaven you need too hold fast to the False OSAS doctrine.

Well it looks like you have the other posters life all figured out. Wow, now that's interesting.

Another scripture for false OSAS teachers.

Ok, lets look at this one.
Romans 16

17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Again you will have to do some work here to prove "these which cause division" are in fact Christians.
This ought to be interesting.

I will be waiting.

 

[Elf]

If man is responsible for keeping himself saved, then no man will ever see the kingdom of God.

Aint that the truth!

...so man holds no responsibility at all in walking out his salvation? Is that what you are saying?

Is your salvation based on works? Do you have to earn it?

 

[duval]

lHi Bunyan
What's the consedquences of losing one's assurance?

God bless, duval

 

[AVBunyan]

If man is responsible for keeping himself saved, then no man will ever see the kingdom of God.

Aint that the truth!

...so man holds no responsibility at all in walking out his salvation? Is that what you are saying?

Of course he has a responsibility to walk worthy - the saint is created unto good works but his walk and works or lack of do not affect his standing/position - that is settled and if it wasn't then nobody could make it for God demands perfect holiness and we cannot meet that - Christ met that for us - he became sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in him - II Cor. 5:21.

Paul commands us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling and then in the next verse says it is God that does the work. Gal. 2:20 tells us we live by the faith of the Son of God! If any of our salvation were left to us then forget it! You are going to sin till you die. God, thankfully, looks at our position in Christ - he sees us in Christ. Folks here see yourselves in yourself! :help

 

[AVBunyan]

lHi Bunyan
What's the consequences of losing one's assurance? God bless, duval

Good question - probably peace of mind, comfort, doubts, etc. He then may try to get it back by the works of the flesh instead of walking after the Spirit so he gets messed up more but....he cannot lose his position in Christ.

 

[duval]

Hi Bunyan

You mean I can "doubt" and still make it? Doesn't doubt have something to do with faith, belief?

God bless, duval

 

[destiny]

Of course he has a responsibility to walk worthy - the saint is created unto good works but his walk and works or lack of do not affect his standing/position - that is settled and if it wasn't then nobody could make it for God demands perfect holiness and we cannot meet that - Christ met that for us - he became sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in him - II Cor. 5:21.

Paul commands us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling and then in the next verse says it is God that does the work. Gal. 2:20 tells us we live by the faith of the Son of God! If any of our salvation were left to us then forget it! You are going to sin till you die. God, thankfully, looks at our position in Christ - he sees us in Christ. Folks here see yourselves in yourself! :help

Why would God tell us to "beware" in Hebrews 3:12-13 If it couldn't apply to His people? Why would God even bother to warn us of something that cannot possibly happen to us?

Again why would God bother to warn us if it can't possibly happen?... "Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? ..." Hebrews 2:1-3

Again, why would God warn us of something that cannot happen to us?.. "Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore, let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall." I Corinthians 10:11-12

Again, why would God bother to warn us?... "Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore, let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall." I Corinthians 10:11-12


A conditional statement: Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved..

More of Gods conditions:

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 

[glorydaz]

Some people don't seem to know the difference between the truly saved and the people who profess to know the Lord. Nor do they believe in the power of God to keep those who are His. I see a lot of fear and doubt.

Are we to trust in ourselves or in God?

Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

We have a living hope as an anchor of our soul.

Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

Christ lives to make intercession for us....ABLE to save to the uttermost.

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Likewise the Holy Spirit intercedes for us.

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

We're KEPT by the power of God.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Not only that, he puts fear into our hearts so we will not depart.

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

I do wonder why so many are sure others will fall away, but they are quite confident it their own ability to keep themselves from falling.

 

[AVBunyan]

Hi Bunyan

You mean I can "doubt" and still make it? Doesn't doubt have something to do with faith, belief?

God bless, duval

Many a saint has been truly regenerated and then because of circumstances started to doubt. Doubt does tie into faith but our faith wavers when we look at the storm instead of Christ.

 

[destiny]

Some people don't seem to know the difference between the truly saved and the people who profess to know the Lord. Nor do they believe in the power of God to keep those who are His. I see a lot of fear and doubt.

I do wonder why so many are sure others will fall away, but they are quite confident it their own ability to keep themselves from falling.

You didn't answer any of my questions concerning the scripture I quoted or why God would give us multitudes of warnings in scripture that couldn't possibly apply to us.

 

[AVBunyan]

1. Why would God tell us to "beware" in Hebrews 3:12-13 If it couldn't apply to His people? Why would God even bother to warn us of something that cannot possibly happen to us?

2."Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away.

3. Therefore, let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall." I Corinthians 10:11-12

4.A conditional statement: Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved..

1. He told Hebrews who doctrinally are working their way through the future tribulation - not dealing with justification and the body of Christ,

2. Why do you equate drifting away with salvation - I've drifted often due to lack of faith and disobedience.

3. Why do you equate fall with losing? One can fall in their walk. You are trying hard to read in losing it everywhere you can.

4. Context - future great tribulation - not the church age. End - end of a period of time (tribulation). Saved - physical life not spiritual. If they make it through the tribulation their life will be saved - not dealing with justification today.

 

[jasoncran]

destiny has a point.

we includes the writer of hebrews. by tradition paul. so then if paul says that then what does that mean that we can neglect salvation as in not care and still enter into heaven?

reconcile this idea

the lords prayer,

father forgive our trespass as WE forgive others who trespassed us.
hmm if we fail to forgive others then can we still see heaven? sin can enter into heaven?

 

[Elf]

Hi Bunyan

You mean I can "doubt" and still make it? Doesn't doubt have something to do with faith, belief?

God bless, duval

Are you still living under the law? Where is the grace?

You say God know who will believe and sends those to Christ (which I disagree with), but God don't know many will have doubts throughout their lives?

Question, Those God foresees as believers and are led to Christ for salvation, what happens to them when they have doubts, or their faith fails as times, are they lost? Did God see this also? If so why did He lead them to Christ for temporary salvation?

 

[glorydaz]

Why would God tell us to "beware" in Hebrews 3:12-13 If it couldn't apply to His people? Why would God even bother to warn us of something that cannot possibly happen to us?

There are unbelievers mixed in with believers in every church. This warning was to those who had never entered into His rest because of unbelief.

And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Many people hear the Gospel message (things we have heard), and respond for a time...and yet "neglect" so great a salvation. They aren't saved.

Again why would God bother to warn us if it can't possibly happen?... "Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? ..." Hebrews 2:1-3

Yes, "thinks he stands". It's a warning to make sure our call and election are sure.

Again, why would God warn us of something that cannot happen to us?.. "Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore, let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall." I Corinthians 10:11-12

If they are true believers they would not have gone out....
The gate is narrow...many will come up to the gate and decide the way is too hard.
Those cannot be counted as Children of God, nor should they be confused with those who are born again of the Spirit.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[AVBunyan]

I've dealt with most of your verses now how about some of you deal with some of mine for a change - Explain these please:
1) Get God to un-forgive you – Eph. 1:7

2) Get God to un-redeem you - Rom. 3:24

3) Get God to un-circumcise you – Col. 2:13

4) Get God to un-adopt you – Rom. 8:15

5) Get God to un-seat you – Eph. 2:6

6) Get God to un-sanctify you – I Cor. 6:11

7) Get God to un-glorify you – Rom. 8:30

8) Get God to un-seal you – Eph. 1:13

9) Get God to un-justify you – Rom. 3:24; 8:30

10) Get God to un-bless you – Eph. 1:3

11) Get God to un-bury you – Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12

12) Get God to un-raise you – Eph. 2:6

13) Get God to un-quicken you – Eph. 2:1

14) Get God to take Christ out of you – Col. 1:27

15) Get God to take you out of Christ's physical body – Eph. 5:30

 

[archangel_300]

Why would God tell us to "beware" in Hebrews 3:12-13 If it couldn't apply to His people? Why would God even bother to warn us of something that cannot possibly happen to us?

Ok so let's take a look at that verse.
Hebrews 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

This was in the context of Israel as they rejected God again and again. They hardened their hearts through the deceitfulness of sin.
Going down to Hebrews 3:19 "So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Born again Christians do not have evil hearts of unbelief. The scriptures are warning us if we act like Israel did then it's possible we are still in unbelief. Only those who live by faith will endure and hold their confidence in Christ until the end.

Hebrews 3: 14 "We've become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,"

This is the same thing as the verses you quoted in the book of John about the vine and the branches.
The evidence we are a child of God is that His word will continue to abide in us.

Again, why would God warn us of something that cannot happen to us?.. "Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore, let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall." I Corinthians 10:11-12

But I don't think this verse in Corinthians is talking about salvation. There are many ways in which a man can fall but that doesn't mean that he falls away from salvation.

Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

 

[jasoncran]

at least its warmed up in Florida, jacksonville and the starke(clay county) area was cold last week


at least thats a break from the cold unlike this perpetual arguing over eternal security.

 

[Elf]

I've dealt with most of your verses now how about some of you deal with some of mine for a change - Explain these please:
1) Get God to un-forgive you – Eph. 1:7

2) Get God to un-redeem you - Rom. 3:24

3) Get God to un-circumcise you – Col. 2:13

4) Get God to un-adopt you – Rom. 8:15

5) Get God to un-seat you – Eph. 2:6

6) Get God to un-sanctify you – I Cor. 6:11

7) Get God to un-glorify you – Rom. 8:30

8) Get God to un-seal you – Eph. 1:13

9) Get God to un-justify you – Rom. 3:24; 8:30

10) Get God to un-bless you – Eph. 1:3

11) Get God to un-bury you – Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12

12) Get God to un-raise you – Eph. 2:6

13) Get God to un-quicken you – Eph. 2:1

14) Get God to take Christ out of you – Col. 1:27

15) Get God to take you out of Christ's physical body – Eph. 5:30

The simple truth is, you can't.