Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[glorydaz]

Some people don't seem to know the difference between the truly saved and the people who profess to know the Lord. Nor do they believe in the power of God to keep those who are His. I see a lot of fear and doubt.

I do wonder why so many are sure others will fall away, but they are quite confident it their own ability to keep themselves from falling.

You didn't answer any of my questions concerning the scripture I quoted or why God would give us multitudes of warnings in scripture that couldn't possibly apply to us.

Sorry, I'm just not fast enough for you. I did answer, though.
The Word of God is given for all men, that they may hear the truth and respond.
Not everything is written for the saved...we preach the gospel so men can hear and be saved.

The warnings that are addressed to believers are so that we can endure the trials that will come upon us as followers of Christ. Those trials are to strengthen and purify us. They aren't warnings that we will lose our salvation because we have Jesus and the Holy Spirit interceding on our behalf.

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Included in the armor of God, the believer has....the shield of faith, and the helmet of "salvation".
We're well protected. Jesus did not leave us defenseless.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

 

[destiny]

Ok so let's take a look at that verse.
Hebrews 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

This was in the context of Israel as they rejected God again and again. They hardened their hearts through the deceitfulness of sin.
Going down to Hebrews 3:19 "So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Born again Christians do not have evil hearts of unbelief. The scriptures are warning us if we act like Israel did then it's possible we are still in unbelief. Only those who live by faith will endure and hold their confidence in Christ until the end.

Hebrews 3: 14 "We've become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,"

This is the same thing as the verses you quoted in the book of John about the vine and the branches.
The evidence we are a child of God is that His word will continue to abide in us.

Again, why would God warn us of something that cannot happen to us?.. "Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore, let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall." I Corinthians 10:11-12

But I don't think this verse in Corinthians is talking about salvation. There are many ways in which a man can fall but that doesn't mean that he falls away from salvation.

Proverbs 24:16 For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

Oh dear.. I could quote scripture after scripture of Gods warnings to HIS PEOPLE and you will just explain it away as if it means something else for someone else and not for our admonition. I know only God can break away those denominational man made doctrines, so I will move on now.

 

[glorydaz]

destiny has a point.

we includes the writer of hebrews. by tradition paul. so then if paul says that then what does that mean that we can neglect salvation as in not care and still enter into heaven?

reconcile this idea

the lords prayer,

father forgive our trespass as WE forgive others who trespassed us.
hmm if we fail to forgive others then can we still see heaven? sin can enter into heaven?

We have to remember that all our sins are forgiven.
We can suffer in this life when we don't obey.
We can suffer loss in this life without losing our salvation.
We're chastened because we're sons in order to prepare us for heaven.

 

[glorydaz]

Oh dear.. I could quote scripture after scripture of Gods warnings to HIS PEOPLE and you will just explain it away as if it means something else for someone else and not for our admonition. I know only God can break away those denominational man made doctrines, so I will move on now.

It isn't a question of explaining it away.
It's a question of reading all the verses that pertain to salvation and understanding who is being addressed in the chapter.

I'm wondering why you don't address all the scripture verses that says quite plainly we cannot lose our salvation, instead of being so determined to show how we can. Is God not able to keep those who have been born again of the Spirit? Is man able to save himself or keep himself saved?

 

[duval]

Hi Bunyan

You asked "Are you still living under the law? Where is the grace?" No sir, I live not under the law and as far as "grace" is concerned Paul asked: "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" Rom.6:1.

You also said: "You say God knows who will believe and sends those to Christ------." I have NEVER said that.

Now about doubt. Didn't James say something about the man who doubts? He is like the wave of the sea! And James concluded "let not that man think he will receive anything from God." And what about the man of whom Paul spoke who was DAMNED because he ate without faith?? Remember I asked what about the consedquences of losing ones' assurance and and you answered among other things he would doubt. I suggested that doubt raises the question of loss of some faith or belief. Can that kind of loss of faith retain the "position" of which you affirm? If so, how much loss of faith will it take?

God bless, duval

 

[glorydaz]

Now about doubt. Didn't James say something about the man who doubts? He is like the wave of the sea! And James concluded "let not that man think he will receive anything from God." And what about the man of whom Paul spoke who was DAMNED because he ate without faith?? Remember I asked what about the consedquences of losing ones' assurance and and you answered among other things he would doubt. I suggested that doubt raises the question of loss of some faith or belief. Can that kind of loss of faith retain the "position" of which you affirm? If so, how much loss of faith will it take?

John the Baptist had some doubts. Jesus didn't berate him...he offered proof.

And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

And with Thomas...He offered proof and encouraged him to have faith.

Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[duval]

Hi Glorydaz

I chose the passages I used because they occurred after the establishment of the church. But of John the baptist and Thomas what conseqquences would there have been for them had they died doubting?

God bless, duval

 

[destiny]

It isn't a question of explaining it away.
It's a question of reading all the verses that pertain to salvation and understanding who is being addressed in the chapter.

I'm wondering why you don't address all the scripture verses that says quite plainly we cannot lose our salvation, instead of being so determined to show how we can. Is God not able to keep those who have been born again of the Spirit? Is man able to save himself or keep himself saved?

There is no verse which states that a person cannot lose their salvation. There are many verses that speak of conditions one must meet on Gods terms in order to finish the "race", just as Paul mentioned. Even the word "race" is very telling, and speaks of our constant need to keep moving towards the finish line; a condition. So simplistic yet complicated by denominational doctrines.

All I know to do is let God be true and every man a liar.

 

[archangel_300]

Oh dear.. I could quote scripture after scripture of Gods warnings to HIS PEOPLE and you will just explain it away as if it means something else for someone else and not for our admonition. I know only God can break away those denominational man made doctrines, so I will move on now.

Well think about it carefully.
Did God save us and afterwards we are made perfect by the actions we do to keep our faith?
That would make us justified by what we do and God states we are not justified by anything we do.
No Christ is the one who keeps us running to the very end. Christ is the author and He is also the finisher of our faith. Hebrews 12:!-2

What does "eternal life" mean? It means life that never ends and that is what God promises to those who become born again. You don't have eternal life and then some how die.

In your belief set if I lose my salvation then can I be restored back to salvation? Or is this impossible with God? Can I inherit eternal life, and some how my eternal life dies and then I can come back to eternal life?

 

[glorydaz]

It isn't a question of explaining it away.
It's a question of reading all the verses that pertain to salvation and understanding who is being addressed in the chapter.

I'm wondering why you don't address all the scripture verses that says quite plainly we cannot lose our salvation, instead of being so determined to show how we can. Is God not able to keep those who have been born again of the Spirit? Is man able to save himself or keep himself saved?

There is no verse which states that a person cannot lose their salvation. There are many verses that speak of conditions one must meet on Gods terms in order to finish the "race", just as Paul mentioned. Even the word "race" is very telling, and speaks of our constant need to keep moving towards the finish line; a condition. So simplistic yet complicated by denominational doctrines.

All I know to do is let God be true and every man a liar.

Men may lie, but God doesn't. I'm not sure how you can avoid the many verses that have been presented already. The fact remains...ERTERNAL LIFE is promised to all who believe in Jesus Christ and are born again of the Holy Spirit.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

"Finish the race' does not refer to our salvation, but our walk.
We desire to please our Lord who bought us...to be faithful servants. Not to buy our way into heaven, Jesus paid that price. There are rewards and crowns awaiting the saints, but we run the race to hear that, "Well done, good and faithful servant."

And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you. Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

 

[Cornelius]

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.

 

[Mysteryman]

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.

This is talking about the blessings of God, not the salvation of God ! There seems to be a constant attempt to make certain claims that are not true, by using scripture out of its proper context. Romans 11:17 talks about those who were broken off, as they were a part of the fatness of the olive tree. The word "fatness" here is dealing with the fullness of the fruit. It is dealing with rewards or crowns, within eternal life.

Romans 11:26 - "And so all Israel shall be saved "
Romans 11:27 - "For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins"

Romans 11:25 - "For I would not brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits ; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles come in"

For many, this mystery is not understood because of ignorance. Israel was kept blind to the fact of the gentiles coming into the fullness of God. Israel thought they were God's people and no one else. This blinded them, so that they could not accept that God was calling the gentiles as well.

The full context continues on within chpater 11, so lets keep reading.

Romans 11:29 - "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" < I challenge some of you to handle this one !

Romans 11:30 - "For as ye in times past have not believed God (Gentiles) , yet have now obtained mercy through their unbleief (their - meaning Israel )"

Romans 11:31 - "Even so have these also now not believed (Israel), that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy" (key word here - mercy - this word reveals everything that is being said here)

Romans 11:32 - "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all"

Romans 11:33 - "O the depth of the riches both of wisdom and knowledge of God ! how unsearchable ( a mystery) are his judgments, and his ways past finding out"

Romans 11:34 - "For who hath known the mind of the Lord ? or who hath been his counseller ? "

Romans 11:35 - "Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again ? " (no one)

Romans 11:36 -"For of him and through him and to him are all things : to whom be glory for ever"

This is all based upon the "mercy" of God.

Our salvation was given to us without repentance. Our salvation is without works for our salvation. Our salvation is not based upon how one can loose salvation, when the salvation was given without repentance in the first place !

Work out your salvation with trembling and frear, if you want to see all the great rewards and blessing of God, an the abundance of his grace towards those who love him.

Remember we didn't love him first, He loved us first !

Romans 12:1 - " I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the "mercies" of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is you reasonable service"

This is our reasonable service for the "mercy" that God has shown us, even when we were dead in our sins. Without God and without hope. He sent his Son for a propitiation for our sins. < I John 4:9 & 10

Be blessed with the "mercy" of God --- MM

 

[jasoncran]

hebrews 6 is interesting on this subject.

if you lose your salvation you can never get it back.

 

[Mysteryman]

hebrews 6 is interesting on this subject.

if you lose your salvation you can never get it back.

Hebrews 6:4 - "impossible"

What part of this word ---- impossible ---- do people not understand ?

 

[jasoncran]

i know that, if you believe that you can loose it then its impossible to repent and get it back.

 

[destiny]

Reading some of the replies here makes me think of what satan said to Eve in the Garden, "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say...."

 

[Adullam]

A race is finished when it reaches the end. It's the end of the matter that counts. Judge nothing before it's time. Paul Himself was in fear of his own fate....

1 Cor 9:27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

If the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, then what is a lack of fear?

Many Christian moralists try to eliminate righteousness from the equation of salvation. They see God's way as unequal. Here is a basic building block on which NT holiness is built.

EZ 18:21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

25Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

26When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

28Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

29Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

 

[glorydaz]

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.

This is speaking of national Israel.

 

[Adullam]

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.

This is speaking of national Israel.

Actually, this is saying that we are NOT more special than the natural Jews who were rejected. We must bring forth the right fruit or suffer rejection as well as they.

 

[glorydaz]

hebrews 6 is interesting on this subject.

if you lose your salvation you can never get it back.

This is telling us why it is impossible for us to fall away.
Jesus was put to open shame but once...at the cross for all our sins.
He will never be put to open shame again by loses any the Father has given Him.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.