Many Scriptural proofs of man’s inherited sin nature

[Eventide]

O wretched man that I am...

Paul says... O wretched man that I AM... he does NOT say, O wretched man that I WAS..

Huge difference.. and again.. imo if people can't see that they're NOT good (and that there are NONE good but one), then that true light can't possibly be in them... and that's what John tells us.. those who say that they have no sin deceive themselves and the TRUTH (that true light) is not in them.

 

[Digger]

Re: To WILL is present with me...

It returns to the same issue: if the old man is dead, and someone isn't a Christian until the old man is dead, then Paul is encouraging non-Christians.

But Paul is encouraging Christians by his own admission.

That's why the conclusion that Christians are people in whom the Spirit is working, putting to death the old man, putting him off, in progress, not completed.

And so we can't say the death of the old man has been completed. It is comprehended and encouraged, but it is not finished.

Again you are attempting to make an allowance for spirituality and carnality to exist at the same time. You are trying to make an allowance of the mixing of light and darkness, double-mindedness.

Gal 5:24 specifically says HAS BEEN crucified. It does not say IS BEING crucified. You cannot redefine the scripture to suit opinion, we must yield our opinion to scripture.

Likewise Rom 6:6 does not say IS BEING crucified, it says the old man is crucified. It is a done deal.

Same with Col 3:9 which says HAS PUT OFF, it does not say IS BEING put off.

James said this...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

All means all. All known rebellion stops.

The carnal man cannot be reformed gradually, it has to die.

A Christian who allows the old man to revive is not in a saved state. Salvation is an actual present state of being where you HAVE BEEN set free from the corruption that is in the world through lust. A person who is saved can then yield to the leading of God which results in holiness. Holiness leads to eternal life.

One cannot be yielding to God when still in rebellion to God. Rebellion and obedience do not mix. You appear to be saying that they can and do mix.

 

[Eventide]

Re: To WILL is present with me...

1 John 1:8-10
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

This is applicable to ALL believers.

AMEN.. I couldn't agree more.. although I'm sure the sinless one(s) will twist this to mean the exact opposite of what it says in simplicity and in truth.

 

[Digger]

Re: O wretched man that I am...

Paul says... O wretched man that I AM... he does NOT say, O wretched man that I WAS..

Huge difference.. and again.. imo if people can't see that they're NOT good (and that there are NONE good but one), then that true light can't possibly be in them... and that's what John tells us.. those who say that they have no sin deceive themselves and the TRUTH (that true light) is not in them.

Paul is using a grammar technique called 'historical present." Go look it up.

Read again one of the first posts to you where I clearly lay out the fallacies of viewing Romans 7 in the context of the present Christian walk.

You whole paradigm of Romans 7 being in the present collapses when these fallacies are held up to the light.

I'll repost it...

To truly hold the position that the wretch in Romans 7 is the state of the present Christian walk causes many problems with Scripture.

Firstly the Romans wretch is "carnal and sold under sin" (Rom 7:14). Thus you are identifying with being carnal and sold under sin.

You cannot be "sold under sin" and "set free from sin" (Rom 6:7) at the same time. That is a contradiction. One is either in bondage to sin or they are not.

Israel was no longer in bondage in Egypt when they had been set free. They were set free and entered into the wilderness.

A Christian is set free from the bondage of sin (Rom 6:7, Rom 6:18) that they may be a servant of righteousness (Rom 6:18-22).

Peter describes it as "having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust" so that one may partake in the divine nature.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

You claim to be carnal and sold under sin which means you have not escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. If you believe you actually have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust then why are you still carnal and sold under sin? See the problem? It just doesn't work.

The Romans wretch also does what he does not want to do (Rom 7:15, Rom 7:19) and you are identifying with that therefore you must be doing what you do not want to do.

The reason you cannot do the things that you would is because you are carnal and sold under sin (Rom 7:14). Take a look at Gal 5:17 as Paul uses very similar language to describe the same concept.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

If you are carnal and sold under sin then you are in the flesh and you cannot be subject to the law of God. This is why you do what you don't want to do.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The predicament of the Romans wretch is that of someone who needs deliverance.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

A born again Christian is not a wretched sinner. They have been set free by crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires in repentance (Gal 5:24, Rom 6:6) and have thus been raised up with Christ (Rom 6:4-5, Col 2:12-13) and have thus been set free.

Your theology is in contradiction and you are forced to define grace as a cover for your continual doing of what you don't want to do. Thus grace has become a license to sin which is the deception Jude warned about.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thus when Jesus said one cannot serve two masters you have to say that one indeed can. Your theology forces you to hold that position.

You have the carnal and spiritual mixing which is double-mindedness. The Bible speaks against such things.

All this is the result of the underlying fallacy of inborn sin which completely perverts the Gospel message.

You are also forced to believe horrible things like, for example, that a child molester does not have to stop molesting children in order to be forgiven by God. The child molester would come to God in process, be saved, and then sanctification would begin and they would molest children less and less.

If you disagree with that last paragraph then explain why a child molester would have to stop yet you still do what you don't want to do because you are the Romans wretch. The child molester could say the same thing about his sin, that he is doing what he does not want to do. See the problem? You are forced to argue in favour of sin.

I know what I am talking about as I have discussed these very issues with multitudes of pastors. They all teach that you get saved in your sins and that the sin never stops.

I urge you to really think about these things because the strong delusion over the church system is very powerful and very few are going to escape its clutches. Only those who yield to the truth no matter what the cost will be able to extricate themselves by the power of the grace of God.

 

[Eventide]

Re: O wretched man that I am...

Paul is using a grammar technique called 'historical present." Go look it up.

Oh... the historical present.. right..

Now how in the world do you sin at times (as admitted) if your old man is dead..?

Is Christ in you sinning ?

 

[Digger]

Re: To WILL is present with me...

1 John 1:8-10
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

This is applicable to ALL believers.

I knew that verse would appear sooner or later. Just like Romans 7 it is completely misused to argue in favour of continuing in sin.

The context of that verse is repentance.

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The blood will only cleanse someone if they are walking in the light as He is in the light. If 1Joh1:8-10 is evidence of indwelling sin then one cannot walk in the light as He is in the light and thus John is contradicting Himself.

The true context of 1Joh1:8 is that it is necessary to confess sin prior to being able to walk in the light as He is in the light. Confession comes before cleansing.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

All unrighteousness is sin and it must therefore be put off that one may walk in the light.

One cannot walk in the light unless they first confess and forsake their sin. The Prodigal Son in Luke 15 had to leave the pig pen and return to the father and then confess his sin. He was not cleansed while remaining in the pig pen.

If 1 Joh1:8-10 is teaching that the sin never stops in a Christian then John is contradicting himself for later he writes...

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

The truth is he is not contradicting himself because 1Joh 1:8-10 is clearly in the context of repentance.



Here is a link to an article I wrote where I address succinctly 1Joh1:8-10. Please take the time to read it.

http://standingthegap.org/If%20we%20say%20we%20have%20no%20sin.htm

 

[Eventide]

the sting of death is sin...

And to deny that the sting of DEATH (physical death) is sin is absurd.. Paul is speaking about the physical resurrection of the dead.. not spiritual death.

 

[Elijah674]

1 Cor. 6:9-11 (is past/tense or it is not anti/christ! of 2 Cor. 12:9 + Phil. 4:13!)

[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

(even has it a kingdom to yet come, huh!;))

[11] And such [[were]] some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (if one is!)

--Elijah

 

[Digger]

Re: O wretched man that I am...

Oh... the historical present.. right..

Now how in the world do you sin at times (as admitted) if your old man is dead..?

Is Christ in you sinning ?

You are lumping all sin into the one bucket.

There are sins not unto death and sins unto death.

Presumptuous willful rebellion to God leads to death. To err in judgment does not if one yields to correction.

Technically sin is missing the mark. Yet sin which is wrought through a defiled and rebellious heart is what God condemns people for. People who do that have willfully rejected the light in favour of darkness. That is the condemnation spoken of in John chapter 3.

 

[Digger]

Re: the sting of death is sin...

And to deny that the sting of DEATH (physical death) is sin is absurd.. Paul is speaking about the physical resurrection of the dead.. not spiritual death.

I stand corrected after looking at the context.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

 

[Elijah674]

Re: O wretched man that I am...

Originally Posted by Eventide
Oh... the historical present.. right..

Now how in the world do you sin at times (as admitted) if your old man is dead..?

Is Christ in you sinning ?



You are lumping all sin into the one bucket.
_____________

Digger here:

There are sins not unto death and sins unto death.

Presumptuous willful rebellion to God leads to death. To err in judgment does not of one yields to correction.

Technically sin is missing the mark. Yet sin which is wrought through a defiled and rebellious heart is what God condemns people for. People who do that have willfully rejected the light in favour of darkness. That is the condemnation spoken of in John chapter 3.
_______


1 John 5:16-17 can Eventide himout perhaps??

[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

--Elijah

​

 

[Stan53]

Re: To WILL is present with me...

I knew that verse would appear sooner or later. Just like Romans 7 it is completely misused to argue in favour of continuing in sin.

The context of that verse is repentance.

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The blood will only cleanse someone if they are walking in the light as He is in the light. If 1Joh1:8-10 is evidence of indwelling sin then one cannot walk in the light as He is in the light and thus John is contradicting Himself.

The true context of 1Joh1:8 is that it is necessary to confess sin prior to being able to walk in the light as He is in the light. Confession comes before cleansing.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

All unrighteousness is sin and it must therefore be put off that one may walk in the light.

One cannot walk in the light unless they first confess and forsake their sin. The Prodigal Son in Luke 15 had to leave the pig pen and return to the father and then confess his sin. He was not cleansed while remaining in the pig pen.

If 1 Joh1:8-10 is teaching that the sin never stops in a Christian then John is contradicting himself for later he writes...

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

The truth is he is not contradicting himself because 1Joh 1:8-10 is clearly in the context of repentance.



Here is a link to an article I wrote where I address succinctly 1Joh1:8-10. Please take the time to read it.

http://standingthegap.org/If we say we have no sin.htm

You misunderstand digger but I will try to clarify for you.

1 John 2:1-2
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

This confirms what he said earlier in 1 John 1:8-10. I would suggest you use a modern English version to help further with the proper vernacular of this part of scripture. ! John 5:18 states, We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. Doesn't quite convey the same message, does it?

Notice also that John says, "If we confess". Salvation is when we accept God's redemption and Jesus as our Saviour. Here we confess, to acknowledge to God, and recognize that what we did is indeed sin and it is then covered by the blood of redemption. James says something similar to this in 4:17, If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't’t do it, it is sin for them.
We do NOT stop sinning when we become Christians. We STOP living in habitual sin. When God looks at us, He sees our blood covered lives. We are redeemed. Jesus died ONCE, for ALL sin.

Remember we are under a NEW covenant. The OLD covenant was death, the NEW one is LIFE, more abundantly.

 

[Digger]

Re: To WILL is present with me...

You misunderstand digger but I will try to clarify for you.

1 John 2:1-2
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

This confirms what he said earlier in 1 John 1:8-10. I would suggest you use a modern English version to help further with the proper vernacular of this part of scripture. ! John 5:18 states, We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. Doesn't quite convey the same message, does it?

Notice also that John says, "If we confess". Salvation is when we accept God's redemption and Jesus as our Saviour. Here we confess, to acknowledge to God, and recognize that what we did is indeed sin and it is then covered by the blood of redemption. James says something similar to this in 4:17, If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't’t do it, it is sin for them.
We do NOT stop sinning when we become Christians. We STOP living in habitual sin. When God looks at us, He sees our blood covered lives. We are redeemed. Jesus died ONCE, for ALL sin.

Remember we are under a NEW covenant. The OLD covenant was death, the NEW one is LIFE, more abundantly.

Salvation is when we accept God's redemption?

That doesn't sound like the strait gate, deny yourself, pick up your cross, go and sin no more teaching of Jesus to me.

That sounds like a package where you can be double minded and serve two masters.


Let me ask you this,


Does a serial killer have to stop murdering people before God will grant him forgiveness?

 

[Stan53]

There are sins not unto death and sins unto death.
Presumptuous willful rebellion to God leads to death. To err in judgment does not of one yields to correction.
Technically sin is missing the mark. Yet sin which is wrought through a defiled and rebellious heart is what God condemns people for. People who do that have willfully rejected the light in favour of darkness. That is the condemnation spoken of in John chapter 3.
​

​

I trust I have quoted you properly Elijah.

Jesus said there is only ONE sin that leads to death, cannot be forgiven. Matthews 12:31, And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

John was speaking of this in 1 John 5:16b, when he wrote, There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

 

[Stan53]

Re: To WILL is present with me...

Salvation is when we accept God's redemption?

That doesn't sound like the strait gate, deny yourself, pick up your cross, go and sin no more teaching of Jesus to me.

That sounds like a package where you can be double minded and serve two masters.


Let me ask you this,


Does a serial killer have to stop murdering people before God will grant him forgiveness?

Well I regret you don't feel that way, but that is the truth of scripture.

I will NOT deal with your straw man.

 

[Digger]

Re: To WILL is present with me...

Well I regret you don't feel that way, but that is the truth of scripture.

I will NOT deal with your straw man.

You won't deal with that question because your answer would reveal the fallacy of getting saved in sin.

If a serial killer had to stop his murders prior to being forgiven by God then so would a liar have to stop lying, a thief stop stealing, a porn watcher would have to stop viewing porn, etc. In fact it would demonstrate that all willful sin must stop.

The Bible supports this...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

The Prodigal Son had to forsake the pig pen BEFORE he could be reconciled to the father.

Luk 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Thus a serial killer has to forsake his killing BEFORE he can be reconciled to God. That is very different to the false gospel package of simply "confessing one's sinfulness and accepting the redemption."

Peter stated clearly that the "sin ceases."

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.


The Bible is very clear on these things yet so many reject the word of truth and choose to adhere to the fallacies of men.



The belief of being born a sinner is a deadly teaching for it gives rise to the fallacy that one gets saved in their sins instead of saved from the bondage of sin.



Is it any wonder that the church system is full of sin?



https://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=pastor+charged
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=youth+pastor+charged
http://www.christiantelegraph.com/issue12979.html

 

[evenifigoalone]

No it cannot be described as a sinful nature because the Bible says that Jesus Christ was tempted in all points as we are yet without sin. If we are born with a "sin nature" then Jesus would have had this "sin nature" because He was tempted in all points as we are.

He didn't sin because He never gave in to temptations. Temptation isn't sin, but yielding to it is. As humans we are tempted to sin, and have a tendency to give in to the temptation.
I was saying "sin nature" not as in having a desire to do what our human nature wants is a sin, but in that giving in to it is. "Sin nature", as in a desire to do what we want instead of obeying God.
Jesus was the only human who never gave in to this.


I'm not going to read all of the replies that have been made since this morning, but the Bible does make it clear that we are capable of sinning even after we are saved. Paul of all people admitted to struggling with sin while he was yet about doing God's work and ministering to the church and all. I have already shared this scripture.
So obviously we are still human and still have a human nature with human desires. But we also have the Holy Spirit now, which if we listen to it will help to guide us away from sin.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
~I Corinthians 10:13 KJV

I'm not sure if that's what you mean to imply or not, but the idea that Christians cannot sin is unintentionally a cruel one, because the devil will use this belief to taunt you and convince you that you are, after all, not really saved or somehow were too sinful and wicked to be saved.
I haven't had this issue directly, but I've had a similar one and have a good idea of how distressing it can be.

 

[Digger]

He didn't sin because He never gave in to temptations. Temptation isn't sin, but yielding to it is. As humans we are tempted to sin, and have a tendency to give in to the temptation.
I was saying "sin nature" not as in having a desire to do what our human nature wants is a sin, but in that giving in to it is. "Sin nature", as in a desire to do what we want instead of obeying God.
Jesus was the only human who never gave in to this.


I'm not going to read all of the replies that have been made since this morning, but the Bible does make it clear that we are capable of sinning even after we are saved. Paul of all people admitted to struggling with sin while he was yet about doing God's work and ministering to the church and all. I have already shared this scripture.
So obviously we are still human and still have a human nature with human desires. But we also have the Holy Spirit now, which if we listen to it will help to guide us away from sin.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
~I Corinthians 10:13 KJV

I'm not sure if that's what you mean to imply or not, but the idea that Christians cannot sin is unintentionally a cruel one, because the devil will use this belief to taunt you and convince you that you are, after all, not really saved or somehow were too sinful and wicked to be saved.
I haven't had this issue directly, but I've had a similar one and can imagine how distressing it would be.

I don't have any problem with what you have written here.

Indeed sin is in the yielding to temptation. Christian's are to rule over temptation and not sin, they are to take the way of escape as it mentioned in that verse you posted.

A Christian can sin intentionally or unintentionally. Willful sin is extremely dangerous because it puts an individual under condemnation and repentance is never guaranteed because sin hardens the heart.

As long as a Christian has the implanted seed of Jesus Christ they cannot willfully sin in the sense that such an act if abhorrent to them. It is akin to how an individual cannot walk in front of a truck on the interstate, it is physically possible but they would not do it.

In the same way for a Christian to willfully sin against God they would have to suppress the light and turn from God. They would in effect be casting the seed of Christ out and turning back to the flesh.

There are severe warnings against this in the Bible because the defilement that it produces. Yet these warnings only apply to those who have been truly born again and sanctified.

 

[evenifigoalone]

As long as a Christian has the implanted seed of Jesus Christ they cannot willfully sin in the sense that such an act if abhorrent to them. It is akin to how an individual cannot walk in front of a truck on the interstate, it is physically possible but they would not do it.

In the same way for a Christian to willfully sin against God they would have to suppress the light and turn from God. They would in effect be casting the seed of Christ out and turning back to the flesh.

There are severe warnings against this in the Bible because the defilement that it produces. Yet these warnings only apply to those who have been truly born again and sanctified.

Personally I don't believe one can lose their salvation unless they purposely walk away from it, but I guess that's another debate.

But there are times in my life that I have willfully disobeyed God and this was after I was saved. I've willfully done things that I know were wrong. I've lied, I've talked back to my parents, I've sneaked onto the computer in the middle of the night when I was supposed to be grounded from it, among others. I knew these things were wrong.

I have gone through a time where I was severely tempted to renounce my faith, due to an addiction I had developed to something that most everybody would say was trivial, a TV show. It came between me and God and yet I insisted on letting the addiction continue for months, though a part of me also just wanted it to stop. This was, hands down, the darkest time of my life. It pushed me into actual depression.

The other times I sinned, it didn't affect me in nearly that way. I knew what I did those times was wrong, yes, asked for forgiveness, yes. And I was forgiven. But though I had done those things willingly, knowing it was wrong. While they were wrong and I had to ask forgiveness, it didn't have even one iota of the emotional struggle that the scenario I mentioned above had.
These times, if any, I seriously doubt that my salvation was at stake. But I was out of God's will for a bit.

If anything, I'd say it's sinning with the direct intention to renounce your faith or turn back, that will make you lose your salvation.


I have some work to go do now, so I'll check back here later or something.

 

[Digger]

Personally I don't believe one can lose their salvation unless they purposely walk away from it, but I guess that's another debate.

If salvation is an abstract or forensic legal position totally disconnected from our deeds then I guess it could not be lost.

Yet if salvation is a state of walking in obedience to God having been set free from the bondage of sin as well as having been forgiven for past sins then to willfully sin would by definition be an action incompatible with salvation.

I like it to an individual who has a bath and the mud is washed off. If they jump into the mud pit are they still clean?