Obey God or never enter Heaven!

[Butch5]

Ah, but you are assuming that the views of Calvin are not in support of the bible. Of course this is the subject of a huge debate that has been raging for centuries.

Let me put it this way, my understanding of what the bible teaches is at least mostly in line with Calvinism.

Example: TULIP.

There's really no reason for debate over the issue. The Scriptures, when understood in their context are clear.

 

[rrowell]

I tend to walk by with a reasonable gait.

Anyway, you have to take the verse in context. The chapter in which this verse resides is talking about praying for those in leadership, specifically heads of state.

Of course God wants all to be saved, and yet not all will be. That is just the way of things.

Your kidding right? we just toss this verse out because it doesn't fit Calvinism?

All men means "all men", God did not create sinful men so he could punish them, it is the most absurd view by anyone that can read and comprehend to believe God would so such a thing...

 

[Danus]

Hi Danus,

Where is Calvin mentioned in the Bible? Like I stated I am new to the faith and the forums but if you can show me where he is mentioned I would like to see it...

Well, this thread is about being sinless and obeying Gods law to be saved. We have a ton of threads on similar content. It's an Arminian view of scripture, of which there are many varieties so there is no need to turn it into a thread on Calvin.

The the bible an be referenced and interpretations and opinions are free as long as its civil.

 

[BornAgain]

Well, this thread is about being sinless and obeying Gods law to be saved. We have a ton of threads on similar content. It's an Arminian view of scripture, of which there are many varieties so there is no need to turn it into a thread on Calvin.

The the bible an be referenced and interpretations and opinions are free as long as its civil.

\

I agree...sorry if I got off topic.

 

[Knotical]

Your kidding right? we just toss this verse out because it doesn't fit Calvinism?

All men means "all men", God did not create sinful men so he could punish them, it is the most absurd view by anyone that can read and comprehend to believe God would so such a thing...

I didn't say that at all. By the way, I said I hold to a Calvinistic view, but that does not mean I hold to everything he believed. I hold to the bible first, and foremost, it just so happens that many of my understandings of what the bible teaches falls into the calvinistic view.

 

[Deborah13]

Leviticus 17:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Hebrews 13:20-21

King James Version (KJV)

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


The only reason we can do, any righteous works is because of Him in us.
By just submitting our will to His, He will do the works. Our job is to submit, He does the works.

 

[Deborah13]

Works are not required for salvation, all that is required is belief in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior and to repent from your sins and ask forgiveness for them. Anything that you do is how you worship God and give thanks for the sacrafice He made in providing you with Salvation.

I am not Calvinist. However, I agree with what you say above. What works people can't seem to grasp is that we don't just go about doing righteous works because we are doing righteous works. Jesus, is doing the work in us that enables us to do righteous works.
Part of the problem is that the good works that unsaved do are viewed as the same as the good works that believers do. They are not. They are good works but they are not done to glorify Jesus. They glorify themselves and Jesus is not the promoter of those works.
Anything that Jesus does in and through us is holy, righteous.
Our job is to just submit, if you understand that you are saved and how much God loves you, it's not so hard to do. Only those who are unsure are so worried about the works. To us it doesn't seem like works at all, it's more like a partnership with Jesus. There is joy and peace.
Sorry if this sounds dumb but I don't really know how to word it right now, in a hurry. We submit motivated by His love for us, not fear of what might happen to us if we don't.
Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so...

Blessings to you,
Another disciple who Jesus loves.

 

[Deborah13]

(1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.â€

Hmm...Pretty clear isn't and yet....

14 So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. 15 I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate. 16 But if I know that what I am doing is wrong, this shows that I agree that the law is good. 17 So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.

18 And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[d] I want to do what is right, but I can’t. 19 I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. 20 But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.

21 I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22 I love God’s law with all my heart. 23 But there is another power[e] within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. 24 Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? 25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

Who said this? The Apostle Paul What in the world could he possibly mean?
Was Paul perfectly righteous, Just like Jesus when he physically died?

So if both scriptures are true were is the truth in them? The Holy Spirit is our teacher, He will teach us all things if we are willing to submit our minds, and our spirits to His teaching. The scriptures are spiritual they are not like reading any other book with worldy eyes. "the things of the flesh are flesh and the things of the spirit are Spirit"

 

[Eugene]

A person has to do obedient works to become a Christian, Jn 8:24 Lk 13:3,5 Mt 10:32,33 Mk 16:16 and after becoming a Christian a person must do good works to remain a Christian, Eph 2:10 Mt 25:31-46.
So it is impossible to be saved without doing any works.

Romans 13:1 . . there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil.

Sounds good to me. If you speed breaking the ordinance of the one God put over us, we have damnation, and if we go too slow and get a ticket we have damnation.

Sounds much like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego not serving the gods of Nebuchadnezzar; into the fiery furnace you dirty guys huh? Daniel, are you praying to other than me? How do you get along with lions?

Peter, you denied me three times! Do you think he is in hell?

Moses, for believing me not you committed a sin unto death; go and die on Mount Nebo, and you don't get to go into the promised land. Is Moses in hell?
:help

 

[farouk]

We do need the Holy Spirit to guide us 'into all truth', as the Lord Jesus said in John's Gospel.

 

[Deborah13]

Who ever told you that no one could live with out sinning?

John tells us one who is begotten by God will not sin.

Paul tells us that a Christian is dead to sin.

Remember if your teachers about God sinned then you learned about God from the devil.


(1 John 3:9) “No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.â€

(Romans 6: 1-2) “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s workâ€

Just what are you trying to say. Make it plan and simple.
If you are saying that the "new creature in Christ" that God created in our now living, no longer dead spirit, does not sin because that is where the Holy Spirit dwells, I can agree with you.
But in the flesh - soul - that part of us that has not begin completely renewed and still is not in total submission to the Lord it does sin. Read Romans 7- Paul said he sinned in the flesh, in the old nature that still was influenced by evil. Satan and the garbage that we have accumulated is still influencing us.

 

[farouk]

A lot is at stake between the time when someone is not born again, and when in his or her experience this has indeed occurred. The whole situation and outlook has changed from being dead in sins, to being alive in Christ.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

And I pointed out that repenting of sin and asking forgiveness is not considered "works." If we were still under the covenant of works then we would be required to keep all of the Commandments.

Believing, repenting and asking forgiveness are works, they are doing something, the complete opposite of doing nothing, doing no works. You cannot at the same time have people doing some action then claim they are not doing any action.

People today are under the NT covenant and required to do those things Christ's NT says to do....why call ye Me Lord, Lord and do not those which I say?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Romans 13:1 . . there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil.

Sounds good to me. If you speed breaking the ordinance of the one God put over us, we have damnation, and if we go too slow and get a ticket we have damnation.

Sounds much like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego not serving the gods of Nebuchadnezzar; into the fiery furnace you dirty guys huh? Daniel, are you praying to other than me? How do you get along with lions?

Peter, you denied me three times! Do you think he is in hell?

Moses, for believing me not you committed a sin unto death; go and die on Mount Nebo, and you don't get to go into the promised land. Is Moses in hell?
:help

It seems you are arguing one can sin, not repent of that sin but still be saved.

Lk 13:3,5

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Leviticus 17:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Heb 11:4 Abel is said to be righteous.

 

[Drew]

No one willing to deal with post 40?

 

[Grazer]

No one willing to deal with post 40?

I heard one talk, may have been Michael Ramsden but don't hold me to that, who suggested that getting into heaven does not require works on our part. However the rewards we receive once we are there are given in proportion to the good works we have done. I'll see if I can find that talk.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[smaller]

No one willing to deal with post 40?

Any honest handling of works will reveal that all believers factually do and have done both good and bad.

The insistent measures from the works for salvation crowd is, for the most part, they want all their good works counted and their bad works discounted or eliminated, 'in the Name of Jesus' of course.

Seems like whatever measures one slices on 'works' the majority of works proponents deem their good works sufficient and their bad works, ah, let's not look at those facts.

s

 

[Knotical]

Believing, repenting and asking forgiveness are works, they are doing something, the complete opposite of doing nothing, doing no works. You cannot at the same time have people doing some action then claim they are not doing any action.

People today are under the NT covenant and required to do those things Christ's NT says to do....why call ye Me Lord, Lord and do not those which I say?

You are somehow hell-bent on specifically equating doing something, anything, with works. This is just not the case. I walked into work today, that was an action, but it was not a "work." Repenting of a sin and asking forgiveness for it is an action, but not a work. A "work" is under the covenant of works has to do with keeping the Ten Commandments. That would be the only kind of "works" that would earn you salvation under the old covenant. We are now under the covenant of grace, which does require an action on our part, but that is only after we have been moved by the Holy Spirit to do so.

 

[Davies]

Good morning,

The title of this thread would have gone over real well with the thief on the cross. Of course, his obedience didn't require any good deeds. Not much you can do while nailed to a cross.

- Davies