OSAS

[Rollo Tamasi]

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus tells both parables to show two different experiences:
The sheep goes wandering off and became lost.
God had to go get him or he would have most probably died.

The son goes off on his own and abandons the father.
The son realizes his mistake and goes back to the father on his own.
They father did not go searching for him.

I think it must be a little of both in every case of abandoning God.....
God calls us even if it's through remorse for having left Him, or maybe we have a guilty conscience.

OTOH,,, He waits for us to come back on our own and does not "carry us on His back" unless we allow Him to, as the lamb did.

God doesn't have to search for us as He already knows where we are.............isn't that right Adam.

It's all about God's mercy and grace as He waits patiently for His own to come back to Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

God doesn't have to search for us as He already knows where we are.............isn't that right Adam.

It's all about God's mercy and grace as He waits patiently for His own to come back to Him.

 

[JLB]

Interesting.
In verse 31;
31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. "

The older son is saved even though he is angry and jealous.
Yet we are taught other wise.
How does that all fit in?

Who taught you the older son was not saved?

 

[JLB]

what kind of question is that? did you need to be saved? answer yes you did technically when we are truly saved its only one time. after that we as Christian have to repent change our mind /turn from. the thing of it is a person is either saved or they aint . there is no straddling the fence

I agree, the lost need salvation.


His sheep who become lost, must repent, in order to be reconciled back to God, just the same way a person who was never saved has to.


JLB

 

[JLB]

after that we as Christian have to repent change our mind /turn from. the thing of it is a person is either saved or they aint . there is no straddling the fence

Yes I agree.

 

[JLB]

I'd say that wandering away and being lost is different.
I could wander away but not be lost.

To me wandering is the same as sinning. We might sin, but are still in communion with God and ask forgiveness.

Being lost means a person does not know where they are.
Something lost cannot be recovered at times.

So a person that wanders off is saved.
A person that is lost is not saved, but can return to God if they wish.

Here’s what James teaches.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


Again, we see the same words and language Jesus used in the parable of the lost sheep.


Here we have one brother, going after another brother who has wandered away from Christ.


He is called a sinner. A term that refers to the wicked;
tax collector or heathen.

Sinner is by definition those who are unbelievers, people who are separated from Christ.


Also, the phrase “save a soul from death” is evident the one who who has wandered away, having returned to being a sinner, is in danger of death; from perishing, eternal death.




JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Who taught you the older son was not saved?

No one.
Who taught you he was saved if he is angry and jealous?

 

[JLB]

No one.
Who taught you he was saved if he is angry and jealous?

I don’t know if he was angry and jealous.

It seems he was frustrated with the fact that he had been faithful to his father, but the wayward brother who had returned was being celebrated.


He didn’t understand yet, what it was like to be a father, and have lost a son... only to have him return and be alive, knowing all the things this life can throw at you.


I just don’t see where being immature disqualifies us from being saved.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Someone who starts as a Christian but does not end as one, ultimately was never saved, simple because they did not continue to the end.

Please help me to understand what you mean by.... “starts as a Christian,”?

How does a person “start as a Christian”, but somehow was never one to begin with?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Who taught you he was saved if he is angry and jealous?

Speaking of the older son:

31“ ‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours." - Luke 15:31

IMO, the Parable of the Prodigal Son is not good material to determine if OSAS is true or not. I consider Hebrews 10:26-29 to be the definitive answer to the matter of OSAS.

"26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?" - Hebrews 10:26-29

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Who taught you the older son was not saved?

Luke 15:28 is both anger and jealousy.
Envy, anger, and jealousy are all associated with pride, which is considered the father of all sins.
Are you justifying these attitudes as being okay for Christians, for the older son showed no remorse?

Luke 15 shows the older son refusing to celebrate with the father or the brother.
After his father pleaded with him, there is no mention that he changed his mind.
Rather, the subject changed to the son that repented, not the one that refused to repent.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The oldest son did not want the attention to shift to his brother.
His brother was certainly saved, but the older brother?
Take away the murder, and it sounds an awful lot like Cain and Abel.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Speaking of the older son:

31“ ‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours." - Luke 15:31

IMO, the Parable of the Prodigal Son is not good material to determine if OSAS is true or not. I consider Hebrews 10:26-29 to be the definitive answer to the matter of OSAS.

"26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?" - Hebrews 10:26-29

Sounds like the older son to me.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here’s what James teaches.


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


Again, we see the same words and language Jesus used in the parable of the lost sheep.


Here we have one brother, going after another brother who has wandered away from Christ.


He is called a sinner. A term that refers to the wicked;
tax collector or heathen.

Sinner is by definition those who are unbelievers, people who are separated from Christ.


Also, the phrase “save a soul from death” is evident the one who who has wandered away, having returned to being a sinner, is in danger of death; from perishing, eternal death.




JLB

I agree.
But in the verse you posted it speaks of wandering away from the truth.
This is different than committing a sin.
Wandering away from the truth means to to wander away from God.
If we don't have God then we're lost.

 

[JLB]

Luke 15:28 is both anger and jealousy.
Envy, anger, and jealousy are all associated with pride, which is considered the father of all sins.
Are you justifying these attitudes as being okay for Christians, for the older son showed no remorse?

Luke 15 shows the older son refusing to celebrate with the father or the brother.
After his father pleaded with him, there is no mention that he changed his mind.
Rather, the subject changed to the son that repented, not the one that refused to repent.

“Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and because he has received him safe and sound, your father has killed the fatted calf.’
“But he was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’
“And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:25-31

• Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing.

Here we see the older son was in the field working and being about his fathers business, not even aware there was a party going on. I think it’s reasonable to see that the older brother was faithful and dedicated to His fathers business.

This is the kind of quality that Jesus says will be rewarded when He returns and His servants are to give an account of what they have with what they were given.

Here is the fathers attitude toward his older son.

• And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours.

We don’t need to speculate about the fathers attitude towards his older son, since we have scripture to show us the truth.


Yes, the older brother was angry, frustrated, at seeing the partying and revelry about the unfaithful son, while he himself was faithful and diligent to his fathers business.

His father taught him a better attitude to have, one that reflected maturity; ie one that conveyed what it was like to lose a son, and have him return.


In reality we would hope that the wayward brother would learn from his mistakes and be more faithful like the older brother, while we would hope the older brother would mature in his attitude be more like the father, who had lost his son, but had receive him back.

The good news is, when we ourselves have wandered away from a God and become lost, we can be assured God still loves, and desires us to return to Him and be restored.




JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

“Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and because he has received him safe and sound, your father has killed the fatted calf.’
“But he was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him. So he answered and said to his father, ‘Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends. But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.’
“And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:25-31

• Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing.

Here we see the older son was in the field working and being about his fathers business, not even aware there was a party going on. I think it’s reasonable to see that the older brother was faithful and dedicated to His fathers business.

This is the kind of quality that Jesus says will be rewarded when He returns and His servants are to give an account of what they have with what they were given.

Here is the fathers attitude toward his older son.

• And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours.

We don’t need to speculate about the fathers attitude towards his older son, since we have scripture to show us the truth.


Yes, the older brother was angry, frustrated, at seeing the partying and revelry about the unfaithful son, while he himself was faithful and diligent to his fathers business.

His father taught him a better attitude to have, one that reflected maturity; ie one that conveyed what it was like to lose a son, and have him return.


In reality we would hope that the wayward brother would learn from his mistakes and be more faithful like the older brother, while we would hope the older brother would mature in his attitude be more like the father, who had lost his son, but had receive him back.

The good news is, when we ourselves have wandered away from a God and become lost, we can be assured God still loves, and desires us to return to Him and be restored.




JLB

Was he working to serve his father or to just get the rewards?
His motives are noted with anger and jealousy.
When his father said "all that I have is yours", it appears the older son took that literally, ALL!

 

[for_his_glory]

Luke 15:25-32 is a parable Jesus taught about one that finds himself lost as he has strayed away from his father (God) to seek worldly pleasures. It's like many of us that have at one time or another strayed away from God and became lost, but then came back and was received of Christ as we humbly repented of our sin as that is what God's mercy and grace is all about in loving and pardoning our sin. We can also relate the lost sheep to Galatians 3:1-9 about the foolish Galatians.

Within these passages of scripture we know nothing about the older brother other than he was always obedient to his father, but now angry because his father never gave him a kid to share as a feast with his friends to make merry. We really can not read anymore into this other than what has already been written. His father told him it was right to celebrate as the parable is about all of us that were once dead to Christ, but made alive again by God's mercy and grace through faith that is Christ Jesus who has redeemed us from sin for he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him, 2 Corinthians 5:21. Jesus paid a debt He did not owe, we owe a debt we could never pay.

Luke 15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Who is the older son? The younger son we can say who that is, it's the lost, the wayward, the Christian who leaves but eventually comes back. If we haven't been this kind of Christian sometime in our lives, then we've likely seen someone like this. Sometimes they get lost and we never hear that they return. A person gets caught up in anything that is taking them away from God such as certian sins (drugs, adultery), or they are caught up in distractions leaving their faith behind, (money, wealth, a job that takes all of their time, or other responsibilities that do the same like fighting for a cause and desciding that is more important then time with family or time with God), or it could be someone who just loses conviction, says they never knew if God was real or not and walks away.

The kinds of waywardness are several, but they are still easy to identify and know who the younger son is referring to in this parable.

However, I've wondered who the older son is. Is he jealous Christians who see the unfaithful being celibrated when they return? Or is he angels or even Jesus? The older son complains that he has always obeyed the Father's comandments. (That doesn't fit with any of us, because we've all sinned before). And the Father replies to the son, that everything He has is the sons as well.

Just a wondering if Jesus recieved a simular talk about the love God has for us. Or if God had a simular talk to His angels.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Jesus received a similar talk?
Is Jesus someone other than God that he needs a talking to.
Is Jesus not God himself?
Who is Jesus to you?