Overcoming Sin

[for_his_glory]

Have you really never read a book outside of the Bible? Not even commentaries?

I do read some commentaries, but if they do not line up with scripture then I toss them away. Even my own writings are that of my commentaries, but if they do not line up with scripture then they too are worthless.

 

[heartwashed]

I never have felt the need to read another book outside from the Bible. What I have written in two books I wrote and hundreds of articles I have written I would never ask anyone to study them along with the Bible, but to study them in accordance to what has already been written in the Bible. We can not allow scripture to line up with our understandings, but that we need to line up with the full context of scripture as the Holy Spirit teaches us all truths.

So, let me rephrase what I have said and say that I encourage you to study this document "in accordance with what has already been written in the Bible."

I have never asked anyone to believe what is written in my document unless it is in accordance with biblical principles.

Read post #4 again . The problem with your document for me is whole bible verses with no reference to where they came from ! If I try to digest your document as it is I believe I will be disagreeing with bible verses because I do not have the context from which it came .

It is alright for you to disagree with statements in my document, even if they are based on Bible verses; as long as you begin to agree with those statements the moment you discover that they are actually backed up by the Bible (from your regular reading of the Bible).

I do read some commentaries, but if they do not line up with scripture then I toss them away. Even my own writings are that of my commentaries, but if they do not line up with scripture then they too are worthless.

I believe that you will find that my document lines up with scripture.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe that you will find that my document lines up with scripture.

Not interested in reading it since you seem to teach us in here from it and I do not have enough time during the day to include it in my studying. I don't mean to come off rude, but just that I disagree with many things you present.

 

[heartwashed]

Not interested in reading it since you seem to teach us in here from it and I do not have enough time during the day to include it in my studying. I don't mean to come off rude, but just that I disagree with many things you present.

I would suggest reading and hearkening to Hebrews 3:7-8, Hebrews 3:15, and Hebrews 4:7.

 

[for_his_glory]

I would suggest reading and hearkening to Hebrews 3:7-8, Hebrews 3:15, and Hebrews 4:7.

I'll stick with that which has already been written thank you.

 

[heartwashed]

I'll stick with that which has already been written thank you.

Yes, those verses that I referenced have already been written.

And so has my document.

 

[heartwashed]

The document is intended for those who have been born again, anyway.

 

[Tenchi]

1 I am not under the law, am dead to the law, and am delivered from the law—I am not obligated to obey the law for my salvation. Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Romans 7:6.

Is it not obedience to the command of God to, by faith, receive Christ as one's Saviour and Lord (John 3: 3-5,16, 36)? And what is a law of God but a command He has given? If, then, I define the command of God as His law, and it is His command, His law, that I ought to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved, am I not acting under an obligation to divine law in obeying it so that I might be saved? I ask this because very often pithy summations of God's truth can many times lead to serious misunderstandings about it. There is a great deal to be said about the kinds of law issued to humanity in God's word, and under which of those laws the Christian stands. A spiritually immature person reading your point #1 might easily assume from it that they are under no moral obligation or divine command whatever, even though you stipulated that you were speaking particularly to the matter of a person's salvation.

2 But because I am saved, I desire to obey the word, including the law of the Old Testament—I desire to obey the law because I am saved.

Encapsulated in the notion of being "saved" is the fact of one's being indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5-8). If he does not dwell within a person, they are not saved (Romans 8:9-16; 1 John 4:13; John 14:16-17). And it is from the Holy Spirit, fundamentally, that a desire to obey God properly arises (Philippians 1:6; Philippians 2:13; Galatians 2:20). So, it would, I think, be more precise to say that a believer desires to obey God, not because of a condition in which they are (ie. saved), but because of a Person who indwells them. The difference between these two ways of talking about the source of a believer's desire to obey God is the difference between saying, for example, that a bomb exploded because it was a bomb and a bomb exploded because it was filled with explosively conflagratory chemicals. The difference is small, but significantly more precise which, since "saved" encompasses such a wide spectrum of things, properly locates the believer's obedience, not in their salvation from hell, nor in the forgiveness of their sins, nor in their membership in the family of God, which are all effects of the indwelling Spirit, but in the Spirit himself.

I don't have time to go through each of your many points, but I wonder how many of them might benefit from greater precision. Regardless, there is an an enormous amount of spiritual "meat" in the points you've offered!

 

[justbyfaith]

This thread hasn't been on the forefront for quite some time and I thought that I would bring it to the forefront.

 

[justbyfaith]

Tenchi,

It should be clear that if Romans 10:9 be a law that we must obey in order to be saved, that Galatians 2:16 cannot be a principle in holy scripture.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think that if anyone reads and meditates on chapters 1-5 of the document, and absorbs its principles into their system, that they will indeed find victory in their lives and "will live in triumph over sin and death".

Rom 5:17 (nlt), For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of righteousness, for all who receive it will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.

I would encourage the reader to be a Berean (Acts 17:10-11) and to seek a working knowledge of scripture and to have that behind your belt before going into any kind of deep study into the text of the document.

 

[justbyfaith]

Some of the statements in the document are based in first truths; things that are self-evident and simply make sense that they are true in and of themselves because they are first truths; they logically stand on their own as statements because our sensibilities testify to us that they cannot be anything but the truth.

Other statements are substantiated by scripture...and I have referenced the scripture that backs them up.

Some statements are based in scripture but I have not given reference to where the principle is located. This is to encourage you to be a Berean (Acts 17:10-11) and to have a working knowledge of your Bible.

 

[gordon777]

Perfect timing for my thread today of the deceiver using Romans 7 as a stronghold.


Those of the law, ( flesh, not Spirit) agree in principle to the right things of God ( the law) but evil being present with them, lust to do the evil.

They cannot believe in the scripture of grace more abounding, than the law ( of sin) or that God gives more grace. To begin to submit to God ( resisting the devil/evil) and the devil flees. ( sin is no longer present in them, then when he flees)


Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

James 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

"1 The wet paint principle is the principle spoken of by Paul the apostle, which can be explained as our inclination, if we see a green bench with a WET PAINT sign on it, to touch that bench to see if it is still wet.
2 It is the principle that when faced with the law of God the inclination of unforgiven sinful man is to violate the law because he says, “Why am I not allowed to do this or that?”
3 This principle is described most aptly in Romans 7:7-13."

 

[Highway54]

Freedom from Sin: Overcoming the Wet Paint Principle

By Victor Jedidiah

A Blood of the Covenant Tract or Booklet

Preface
May the Lord the Holy Spirit impart to you what He wishes to impart to you as you read this; and also give you discernment that you may be a Berean (Acts 17:11) and sift it wisely in order that you may receive the truth alone. Receive it as on a par with the word of God (1 Thessalonians 2:13); and yet if anything be unworthy, I pray that He will show you by speaking to you, what you ought to receive and what you ought not to receive. Even though I am the one who wrote this, I read it again and again to remind myself of its truths.

Body
1
1 I am not under the law, am dead to the law, and am delivered from the law—I am not obligated to obey the law for my salvation. Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Romans 7:6.
2 But because I am saved, I desire to obey the word, including the law of the Old Testament—I desire to obey the law because I am saved.
3 If I fail to obey the law, I am not condemned—but because I am not condemned—because I am born of God—1 John 3:9—I will not fail to obey the law.
4 If I fail to obey the law, the Lord will not impute it to me as sin—Romans 4:8. Now I cannot sin because I am not under the law, am dead to the law, and am delivered from the law—and sin is the transgression of the law. Because where the law does not apply, there is no transgression. Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13.
5 Therefore I am perfect in Christ no matter what I do—and yet this is predicated on a heart that desires to obey the Lord and all of His commandments—and He is the God of the Old and New Testaments.
6 Because I am born of God I don’t want to sin and I don’t have to sin. Therefore I cannot sin, not because I couldn’t go down that path if I wanted to, but because I don’t want to and don’t have to go down that path.
7 I am under the law to Christ in that I willingly subject myself to the law of God because I am spiritually-minded. Romans 8:7.
8 Now the wet paint principle of the law might take effect, if I begin to think that I am justified by the law. If I base my salvation on my performance rather than on the finished work of Christ on the Cross, then sin will take advantage of the law and I will sin in that thing wherein I base my salvation on my own obedience.
9 But when I begin to understand that nothing can ever separate me from the love of God—not even my violation of the principle of the law—
10 When I begin to understand that I am that blessed man to whom the Lord will not impute sin—the wet paint principle is then dealt with because its power lies in the condemnation that the law brings to the one who is not counted as forever perfect in Christ.
11 The wet paint principle has its effect because we begin to think that we are saved through our obedience and the Lord will not allow this to compete with the Cross as our means of salvation. So God will allow us to sin so that we will be driven to the Cross as the only remedy for sin.
12 When we stay on the Cross as the only remedy for sin, then it truly acts as the remedy for sin at every level, and obedience is produced within us because we are born of God and are abiding in Him.
13 As those who are abiding in the Lord Jesus Christ, we are subject in our minds to the law of God for that we are not carnally-minded. Romans 8:7.
14 The wet paint principle might begin to take effect any time our focus is on the law—our key to victory being the understanding that I am not saved through law-keeping but through faith in what Christ has done for me.
15 Therefore I obey the law because I am in love with Jesus Christ—and I love Him because He first loved me.
16 I do not obey the law in order to be justified. If I did that, I would be obligated to obey the whole law and would be fallen from grace.
17 But grace has as its effect in my life deliverance from sin—and sin is the transgression of the law.
18 Therefore because I am delivered from sin by the grace of God, I obey the law because obedience to the law is the antonym of its transgression.
19 I obey the word of God because He has redeemed me and because I love Him, with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength. Because I love Him, I love my neighbor as myself—and on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. And these two are one, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
20 His commandments are not grievous or burdensome—1 John 5:3—and this means they are doable.
21 As one who is born of God, I cannot sin because love is the fulfilling of the law and is also shed abroad in my heart through the infilling of the Holy Ghost.
22 Sin is the transgression of the law, and as long as the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in me, I do not sin.
23 Wherefore if I walk in love I will fulfill the law: for walking in the flesh is the antithesis of love.
24 Therefore I do not sin as long as I am walking according to love.
25 Now I study the law in order that I might learn of the specifics of the love of God. As I read and study, I learn what it means to love the Lord my God with all of my heart, mind, soul, and strength—and my neighbor as myself—in more specific ways. I learn the details of how to love God and neighbor by studying the law.
26 And by the law is the knowledge of sin. Therefore when I place my trust in Christ and allow Him to live His life in me and through me, I will walk according to the details of God’s love. But if my trust is not in Christ, the wet paint principle will come into effect, and I will sin against those details of obedience on which I begin to predicate my salvation. And the law will condemn me as a sinner.
27 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9.
28 Therefore the one who is a saint cannot be a sinner.
29 I am therefore made perfect for ever through faith in Jesus Christ; and this righteousness is not based in the law.
30 I am counted as perfect in Christ because I am born of God; and this means I desire to obey the Lord perfectly.
31 Therefore I obey Jesus because I want to, not because I have to.
32 The law cannot condemn me as long as I place my faith and trust in Christ.
33 Because I am not under the law, am dead to the law, and am delivered from the law, the Father sees me as perfect and I am therefore set free to obey the law to the best of my ability apart from fear of condemnation.
34 The wet paint principle is also stripped of its power because I know that I am accepted in the Beloved.

Since none of us, not even the apostle Paul as you mentioned, can overcome sin, Jehovah out of His love sent His son to be sacrificed so that our sins can be pardoned sir. But all of us Christians do look forward to the time where we no longer do have to sin, although it is still yet far off for most of us, it will come Heartwashed.

 

[justbyfaith]

Since none of us, not even the apostle Paul as you mentioned, can overcome sin, Jehovah out of His love sent His son to be sacrificed so that our sins can be pardoned sir. But all of us Christians do look forward to the time where we no longer do have to sin, although it is still yet far off for most of us, it will come Heartwashed.

Rom 6:14 (kjv), For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 8:12 (kjv), Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Rom 8:12 (nlt), Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.

 

[justbyfaith]

Perfect timing for my thread today of the deceiver using Romans 7 as a stronghold.


Those of the law, ( flesh, not Spirit) agree in principle to the right things of God ( the law) but evil being present with them, lust to do the evil.

They cannot believe in the scripture of grace more abounding, than the law ( of sin) or that God gives more grace. To begin to submit to God ( resisting the devil/evil) and the devil flees. ( sin is no longer present in them, then when he flees)


Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

James 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

"1 The wet paint principle is the principle spoken of by Paul the apostle, which can be explained as our inclination, if we see a green bench with a WET PAINT sign on it, to touch that bench to see if it is still wet.
2 It is the principle that when faced with the law of God the inclination of unforgiven sinful man is to violate the law because he says, “Why am I not allowed to do this or that?”
3 This principle is described most aptly in Romans 7:7-13."

The passage can indeed be used as a stronghold of the enemy if verses 14-25 are not seen as Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION.

However, verses 7-13, when understood properly, are the words of the Holy Ghost; and the proper understanding of the verses will be conducive towards freedom and victory over the power of sin.

 

[gordon777]

The passage can indeed be used as a stronghold of the enemy if verses 14-25 are not seen as Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION.

However, verses 7-13, when understood properly, are the words of the Holy Ghost; and the proper understanding of the verses will be conducive towards freedom and victory over the power of sin.

If men see something that entices them, ( touching paint) they have to touch it ?


No, that is the adulterer, and whosoever touches her shall not be innocent.


They are men void of understanding. ( filled with fornication, debate, without understanding, cannot be corrected.)

They are lured by a harlot, subtil of heart. ( the devil)

With fair speech and flattery they are forced and go straight away as a fool, ( to touch wet paint)

Then the dart strikes through their liver, as a bird hasting to the snare and does not know it is for its life.

We let not our heart decline to her ways, we do not go astray in her paths, we hear Gods word. ( we were as sheep going astray,l now are returned to the Bishop and Shepherd of our souls 1 Peter 2:25.)

She has cast down many wounded,many strong men have been slain by her.


Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death. ( wet paint/the temptation of the devil.)


Wisdom has her voice, to those who are simple, let him turn in to her, and him that requires understanding, she says to him,
Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled. Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.


The subtil voice ( the subtil devil) says to those who are simple, turn in here to him that has no understanding, she says to him,
Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant. ( touch the wet paint.) but he knows not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.





Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:


Proverbs 6:29 So he that goeth in to his neighbour's wife; whosoever toucheth her shall not be innocent.

Proverbs 7:7 And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,
8 Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,
9 In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:
10 And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.

Proverbs 7:18 Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves.
19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey:
20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed.
21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.
22 He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;
23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.


Proverbs 7:24 Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.
25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.
26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.
27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.


Proverbs 9:4 Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,
5 Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.
6 Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

Proverbs 9:16 Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: and as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,
17 Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.
18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.




We have no agreement with idols, ( with the devil) God walks in us, we cannot touch the wet paint.

We come out from among them, ( who lure you to wet paint) and be separate, to not touch the unclean ( wet) thing, and the Lord will receive us. Then He is a Father to us, and we are His sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.

The judgement of the great whore, with whom the kings of the earth and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.


The habitation of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. ( evil angels/ministers of satan)

All nations drank of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, come out of her to not be part takers of her sins, to not receive of her plagues.




2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Revelation 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

[gordon777]

The passage can indeed be used as a stronghold of the enemy if verses 14-25 are not seen as Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION.

However, verses 7-13, when understood properly, are the words of the Holy Ghost; and the proper understanding of the verses will be conducive towards freedom and victory over the power of sin.

The book of Romans beginning from chapter 1, and continuing to the last chapter, ( including Romans 7. ) describe the end of the law, and the replacement with faith.

Before faith, all the evil that is in this world, is present with us, and after faith is come, evil vanishes.

At one moment/time evil triumphs, then after that good prevails.

 

[gordon777]

Since none of us, not even the apostle Paul as you mentioned, can overcome sin, Jehovah out of His love sent His son to be sacrificed so that our sins can be pardoned sir. But all of us Christians do look forward to the time where we no longer do have to sin, although it is still yet far off for most of us, it will come Heartwashed.

Sins are pardoned and the way to no longer do them is given. ( that is the pardoning.)


Would you wash a car and then throw back the dirty water all over the car, or use clean water TO RINSE...


Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I SPINKLE CLEAN WATER UPON YOU and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[gordon777]

Rom 6:14 (kjv), For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 8:12 (kjv), Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Rom 8:12 (nlt), Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.

Overcoming this world is through belief in Jesus Christ, not by belief in anyone else. (ALL ARE thieves and robbers before Christ, the sheep do not hear them/ they are the robbers of His people who EXALT THEMSELVES to try to establish the vision. Daniel 11:14. John 10:8)



John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.



The deceivers promise them liberty ( freedom to sin/ teach through strife, to not have faith) while they serve corruption. ( what a man is overcome of, the same brings him into bondage, they are overcome of evil., they DO NOT OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD.)


Many others overcome the pollutions of the world, through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and then are entangled again, and overcome ( by the deceivers promising them liberty.)

It is better that they never knew the way of righteousness, than after they have known it, to turn from the Holy commandment delivered unto them.

But they are the dog returning to their vomit, the sow washed to her wallowing in the filth.




Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.



But if we overcome, it is because God is greater in us, than what is in them. ( the devil spirit)

They CANNOT OVERCOME THE WORLD, AS THEY ARE OF THE WORLD. ( nobody can overcome what they are part of and agree to.) They speak of the world, ( pretending to overcome) and the world hears them. ( to not overcome sin/evil with good/faith in Jesus Christ overcoming this world.)



1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.


Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.