Revelation 1:1-3 Seldom examined verses

[Shilohsfoal]

First off. I am not trying to prove you wrong. There is a force greater than flesh and blood and human intellect that we are facing.

If we talk about types and shadows, it takes the Holy Spirit to give give the correct answers.

We do see through a glass darkly. One of the greatest blessings in my life, is a terrible thing I face. I have the start of macular degeneration. I have to look at things from many directions to see if a tiny blind spot is hiding a detail.

Types and shadows are real objects, but not the reality we seek. Now I know a day may come when my physical sight may get worse. I also know that the spiritual truth hidden in physical sight is the most important thing.

We have to face one area I deal with.
There are physical stars that will fall from heaven. There are spiritual fallen angels that fall from the third heaven. Pretty sure only the elect you speak of can tell the difference:
Confusion will present to some
Through dark sunshades hit others
Some see two witnesses
Some will see three witnesses

How to even discuss this is a problem.

The earthquake, darkness, graves opened at the time of Jesus’s death are important, but so far I can not see every detail. These things that happened are probably types and shadows of an ultimate reality. All the words we possess fall short. One day we will know. Right now some of it is still a mystery to me, but I am still looking at it from different directions.

eddif

Jesus said the stars fall from the sky after kingdom rises against kingdom and nation against nation.
Im guessing you've never seen war.

What happens when nation rises against nation and kingdom against kingdom, is the stars of heaven fall unto the earth and there are earthquakes.
There's nothing spiritual about these things.
Those are simply the signs of war on earth. Been like that since Germany invented the missile and the US invented the nuke.

The US War on Iraq was a great war to see falling stars but I've heard Russia has been doing a great job of causing falling stars in Ukraine.

 

[eddif]

Jesus said the stars fall from the sky after kingdom rises against kingdom and nation against nation.
Im guessing you've never seen war.

What happens when nation rises against nation and kingdom against kingdom, is the stars of heaven fall unto the earth and there are earthquakes.
There's nothing spiritual about these things.
Those are simply the signs of war on earth. Been like that since Germany invented the missile and the US invented the nuke.

The US War on Iraq was a great war to see falling stars but I've heard Russia has been doing a great job of causing falling stars in Ukraine.

Does a mortar shell in Viet Nam count? I played tough till I looked around and those with automatic rifles were on the ground, and I was the only idiot standing.
War is a level of understanding.

Spiritual warfare in high places is another level. Saints battle here?

Satan cast out of heaven is the highest level of warfare.

Takes different eyes to see some warfare.

eddif

 

[jasonc]

I’m not sure what this reges to. The first name in your link was Sproul.

I quote Clement. Shall I quote Josephus? Can you them quote someone?

Does being here long mean you know more? I don’t see the connection.

OK. I haven’t heard him on eschatology. I first heard of him when he did tape on Islam. That was quite good.

Josephus wasn’t a christian and probably knew nothing of the book of Revelation. I think Eusebius wrote the abomination was placed in the temple in those days.

That man closer to the time said it was so. The reference is vague so it’s hard for us to say what that exactly was but it’s assumed a statue worshipped by the gentiles, but I don’t know.

Ok thanks. I am NOT at all clear on the details of my general position. I cannot answer all questions by any means. I’m still exploring these things. So something’s match and others are a mystery to me.

But the peace of mind knowing “soon” meant soon and that the recepients needed and understood was an immense relief. Not the least of which is knowing Jesus’ prophesies were spot on correct and need no silly excusing. Jesus spoke the truth aids my faith.

Does the fact a futurist,amil,preterist ,or historicist.all do do the same witnesses and reach the lost .

The problem Is I don't need to know the exact details of His coming .only avoid the clear warnings.
Don't die in sin ,don't take the mark.
Don't decieve or become a false prophet

Do reach the lost ,do repent and believe ,do make disciples if so called .

The didache simplicity on eschatology

You say two resurrection?

Where does Jesus say at the two ressurection?

Paul says he believes in the ressurection of the just and unjust .

 

[jasonc]

I find it odd as I once did .that some spend hours and months looking hard for the return and miss that we'll that heart may stop today.

I'm not at all against studying the eschaton just don't be so focused on it that you miss the other parts .seen it .

We had a visitor who was too novice to be doing what he did,he knew the Bible but was to rigid ,caged Calvinist ,and had no eye and tolerance for the grey areas .you were not saved if you were anot a five pointer .

He was out there and he was a futurist .the elders here aren't that way .yes sine teach with a opinion and I would hear and ask in class or person .but never challenge them there .

The jewess who is kosher is a futurist .she is fluent in Hebrew ,raised in the temple ,believed and still does all feasts and can point each to the Messiah .

Another who debates her is as Dorothy and I told him .I see your point but those side debates .she is a jew .you won't budge that .he didn't get that .

She will listen .but won't change .she is in her seventies .

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Does a mortar shell in Viet Nam count? I played tough till I looked around and those with automatic rifles were on the ground, and I was the only idiot standing.
War is a level of understanding.

Spiritual warfare in high places is another level. Saints battle here?

Satan cast out of heaven is the highest level of warfare.

Takes different eyes to see some warfare.

eddif

Im thinking more like Hiroshima.
The great earthquake and the heavens departed like a scroll bejng rolled together. The heavens burning with a fervent heat and the elements melting.
Have you ever read of the plague that strikes those who come against Jerusalem?
Thier flesh is consumed as they stand on thier feet, the eyes consumed in thier holes and thier tongues consumed in thier mouths.
Im not talking about guns. I'm talking about nuclear missiles raining down on the middle east.

 

[eddif]

Im thinking more like Hiroshima.
The great earthquake and the heavens departed like a scroll bejng rolled together. The heavens burning with a fervent heat and the elements melting.
Have you ever read of the plague that strikes those who come against Jerusalem?
Thier flesh is consumed as they stand on thier feet, the eyes consumed in thier holes and thier tongues consumed in thier mouths.
Im not talking about guns. I'm talking about nuclear missiles raining down on the middle east.

I have heard your explanation before.

My area I look at is the mini resurrection at the death on the cross.

This is not THE resurrection, but a type and shadow of THE resurrection. This way we see the spiritual implication of what Jesus accomplished.

Not in competition, but helping understanding what is to come. Punishment before resurrection.

When I mention what I see, it is not in competition with what others are saying, but just so we can believe what is to come.

eddif

 

[ezrider]

Im thinking more like Hiroshima.
The great earthquake and the heavens departed like a scroll bejng rolled together. The heavens burning with a fervent heat and the elements melting.
Have you ever read of the plague that strikes those who come against Jerusalem?
Thier flesh is consumed as they stand on thier feet, the eyes consumed in thier holes and thier tongues consumed in thier mouths.
Im not talking about guns. I'm talking about nuclear missiles raining down on the middle east.

Some may look for a nuclear bomb, I have heard people like Hal Lindsey and such spout that stuff for quite a long time. But if I'm considering the image of their flesh being consumed and the heavens burning, then I would consider the Glory of the Lord, and how it might appear. I'm thinking more like the dedication of Solomons Temple and the flames lapping up the burnt offerings.

 

[ezrider]

Types, shadows, hidden things, learning from history, revealed parable meaning, biblical dreams and visions, wheels within wheels etc.

My area I look at is the mini resurrection at the death on the cross.

This is not THE resurrection, but a type and shadow of THE resurrection. This way we see the spiritual implication of what Jesus accomplished.

If you would permit me to share but a thought concerning wisdom.

Be cautious and do not get caught up in seeking shadows. He who abides in the shadows does not abide in the light, but remains yet in darkness.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Some may look for a nuclear bomb, I have heard people like Hal Lindsey and such spout that stuff for quite a long time. But if I'm considering the image of their flesh being consumed and the heavens burning, then I would consider the Glory of the Lord, and how it might appear. I'm thinking more like the dedication of Solomons Temple and the flames lapping up the burnt offerings.

I don't believe Jesus said anything about Solomons temple. Jesus said kingdom shall rise against kingdom and nation against nation before the stars of heaven fall unto the earth. He said nothing about a building for prayer.
Personally, I believe Jesus is talking about what the king of the north does with his armed forces. The army that places an abomination that causes Jerusalems desolation.
I expect Jerusalem to look like Hiroshima looked after our armed forces made it desolate.

 

[ezrider]

I don't believe Jesus said anything about Solomons temple. Jesus said kingdom shall rise against kingdom and nation against nation before the stars of heaven fall unto the earth. He said nothing about a building for prayer.

Pay attention, would you. I was talking about the FIRE, and how the Glory of the Lord consumed the burnt offerings. You have your bomb

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Pay attention, would you. I was talking about the FIRE, and how the Glory of the Lord consumed the burnt offerings. You have your bomb

Yes the fire. The nuclear bomb in Jerusalem causes what appears to be a great body of fire, sorta like a lake. It ascends into the heavens from Jerusalem carrying two witnesses. The earthquake takes place at that time as well.
The object which has been placed that causes this is "the abomination that causes desolation."

 

[Shilohsfoal]

 

[n2thelight]

Jesus said the stars fall from the sky after kingdom rises against kingdom and nation against nation.
Im guessing you've never seen war.

What happens when nation rises against nation and kingdom against kingdom, is the stars of heaven fall unto the earth and there are earthquakes.
There's nothing spiritual about these things.
Those are simply the signs of war on earth. Been like that since Germany invented the missile and the US invented the nuke.

The US War on Iraq was a great war to see falling stars but I've heard Russia has been doing a great job of causing falling stars in Ukraine.

The stars that fall from Heaven are the angels that come with satan after the war in Heaven

Revelation 6:13 "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely [unripe] figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

Word References:

"untimely figs" - 3653 olunthos (ol'-oon-thos); of uncertain derivation; an unripe (because out of season) fig: KJV-- untimely fig.

The trouble starts in heaven, as it is written in Revelation 12:7-9, where Michael casts Satan upon the earth. When Satan is gone, then there is peace in heaven, but woe to them on the earth for his destination is earth.

These are the "untimely figs" which are harvested out of season. Jesus talks about this in Mark 13:24, and it will be covered in detail in Revelation 12. This covers the second advent [coming of Christ], and these figs [people] who claim the name of Christ, yet do not know God's Word, nor His times and seasons. These people will be taken by the Antichrist [out of season]. God's elect will not be taken out of season, but will make a stand against Satan and his false harvest and allow the Spirit to give answer for them.

 

[eddif]

If you would permit me to share but a thought concerning wisdom.

Be cautious and do not get caught up in seeking shadows. He who abides in the shadows does not abide in the light, but remains yet in darkness.

And a Jewish person comes to know about things that were once thought to be realities.

And the gentile learns what his kinsman was like.

That they may understand how they join in the faith of Abraham, thus being made one new man.

Shadows are not the reality, but the shadow alerts you to look up for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luke 21:28

Metaphysics is made of two things. The physical and the higher order thing that the physical points to.

eddif

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The stars that fall from Heaven are the angels that come with satan after the war in Heaven

Revelation 6:13 "And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely [unripe] figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

Word References:

"untimely figs" - 3653 olunthos (ol'-oon-thos); of uncertain derivation; an unripe (because out of season) fig: KJV-- untimely fig.

The trouble starts in heaven, as it is written in Revelation 12:7-9, where Michael casts Satan upon the earth. When Satan is gone, then there is peace in heaven, but woe to them on the earth for his destination is earth.

These are the "untimely figs" which are harvested out of season. Jesus talks about this in Mark 13:24, and it will be covered in detail in Revelation 12. This covers the second advent [coming of Christ], and these figs [people] who claim the name of Christ, yet do not know God's Word, nor His times and seasons. These people will be taken by the Antichrist [out of season]. God's elect will not be taken out of season, but will make a stand against Satan and his false harvest and allow the Spirit to give answer for them.

The stars of heaven fall in Revelation 6.It takes place on the day of the Lord when those in Judea flee to the mountains and hide in the caves and dens. The stars cause a great earthquake and the heavens depart from the earth as a scroll being rolled together.
No these are not angels.

Revelation 6:12 - The Sixth Seal: Terror

And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red,

biblehub.com

Revelation 6:13 - The Sixth Seal: Terror

and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind.

biblehub.com

Revelation 6:14 - The Sixth Seal: Terror

The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

biblehub.com

Revelation 6:15 - The Sixth Seal: Terror

Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains.

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Revelation 6:16 - The Sixth Seal: Terror

And they said to the mountains and the rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.

biblehub.com

None of these things have anything to do with angels.
This is the armed forces of the king of the north destroying the middle east.
This is great tribulation caused by the abomination of desation.All this takes place on the day of the Lord.

 

[eddif]

I find it odd as I once did .that some spend hours and months looking hard for the return and miss that we'll that heart may stop today.

I'm not at all against studying the eschaton just don't be so focused on it that you miss the other parts .seen it .

We had a visitor who was too novice to be doing what he did,he knew the Bible but was to rigid ,caged Calvinist ,and had no eye and tolerance for the grey areas .you were not saved if you were anot a five pointer .

He was out there and he was a futurist .the elders here aren't that way .yes sine teach with a opinion and I would hear and ask in class or person .but never challenge them there .

The jewess who is kosher is a futurist .she is fluent in Hebrew ,raised in the temple ,believed and still does all feasts and can point each to the Messiah .

Another who debates her is as Dorothy and I told him .I see your point but those side debates .she is a jew .you won't budge that .he didn't get that .

She will listen .but won't change .she is in her seventies .

The joy can be when the parallel between the physical and the spiritual are seen. Food and drink (under the law of Moses) become eating the body and blood of Jesus.

Looking at the physical as a shadow to get us to look to a higher level of understanding.

Last week I saw shadows racing across the lawn. I did not try and get a picture of the shadow, but concentrated on looking for a bird (buzzards in this case circling the house area). To use the law of Moses to look up is the point of the Law. Using the law as a schoolmaster will never cease.

Too bad gentiles are so blind they miss the lessons to be learned from the law. The law is not righteousness, but it can make us look up.

eddif

 

[jasonc]

The joy can be when the parallel between the physical and the spiritual are seen. Food and drink (under the law of Moses) become eating the body and blood of Jesus.

Looking at the physical as a shadow to get us to look to a higher level of understanding.

Last week I saw shadows racing across the lawn. I did not try and get a picture of the shadow, but concentrated on looking for a bird (buzzards in this case circling the house area). To use the law of Moses to look up is the point of the Law. Using the law as a schoolmaster will never cease.

Too bad gentiles are so blind they miss the lessons to be learned from the law. The law is not righteousness, but it can make us look up.

eddif

Obession and the last book is to deep to cast one shadow .

Just look at the visions of the throne room

 

[eddif]

Obession and the last book is to deep to cast one shadow .

Just look at the visions of the throne room

I really think visions are a shadow of things to come, and not the reality of what will be.

With the kingdom in us, we see the visions and dreams.

I will put my law in your hearts and minds.

eddif

 

[JLB]

Interesting. It makes sense that soon would refer to the events of 70 AD and not something hundreds or thousands of years later.
Thanks for this!

What does 70 AD have to do with anything written in the book of Revelation?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

What does 70 AD have to do with anything written in the book of Revelation?

As I understand it, the beast recieved a fatal wound in 70 AD. It's all better now.