Salvation by Faith Alone?

[chestertonrules]

Romans 10:10 - "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation"

Romans 10:13 - "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

You can be saved from drowning by a lifeguard.

That doesn't mean that you won't drown some other time.

 

[Mysteryman]

Romans 10:10 - "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation"

Romans 10:13 - "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

You can be saved from drowning by a lifeguard.

That doesn't mean that you won't drown some other time.

Interesting reply. I present scripture and your present a worldly view.

 

[Joe67]

He that overcomes, the wicked one, sin in his flesh, is saved from his sins and is no longer a servant to sin.
Rev 2:17
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. KJV

Joe

 

[chestertonrules]

Romans 10:10 - "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation"

Romans 10:13 - "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

You can be saved from drowning by a lifeguard.

That doesn't mean that you won't drown some other time.

Interesting reply. I present scripture and your present a worldly view.

I merely pointed out that being saved by Jesus doesn't mean you will stay saved.

The bible is quite clear regarding this:


2 Timothy 2:12 "If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us".

2 Peter 2:20-21 "They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."

Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Hebrews 3:12-14 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end."

1 Timothy 1:19 "Keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and their faith has been shipwrecked".

Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore we must pay greater attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away".

 

[chestertonrules]

He that overcomes, the wicked one, sin in his flesh, is saved from his sins and is no longer a servant to sin.
Rev 2:17
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. KJV

Joe

Isn't overcoming the same thing as persevering?

 

[awaken]

But aside from such unusual positions, this text has to be appropriately understood. The repentent thief is promised salvation. So even though he only lived, say, a few hours after repentence, he apparently does pass the "good works" test.

This is perfectly consistent with the Romans 2 text, however, which gives no specific criteria about "how much good" one has to do in order to be awarded eternal life.

What is not consistent with the text, however, is to assert that this text is not about the awarding of eternal life - it is not possible four Paul to be clearer:

...He will give eternal life.

So repentence is something that is added to faith in order to recieve salvation? The thief on the cross as an example.

 

[Mysteryman]

[/quote]


I merely pointed out that being saved by Jesus doesn't mean you will stay saved.

The bible is quite clear regarding this:


2 Timothy 2:12 "If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us".

2 Peter 2:20-21 "They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."

Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Hebrews 3:12-14 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end."

1 Timothy 1:19 "Keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and their faith has been shipwrecked".

Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore we must pay greater attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away".[/quote]



Hi

Romans 8:31 - 39 - "Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to seperate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord"

 

[chestertonrules]

I merely pointed out that being saved by Jesus doesn't mean you will stay saved.

The bible is quite clear regarding this:


2 Timothy 2:12 "If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us".

2 Peter 2:20-21 "They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."

Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Hebrews 3:12-14 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end."

1 Timothy 1:19 "Keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and their faith has been shipwrecked".

Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore we must pay greater attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away".[/quote]



Hi

Romans 8:31 - 39 - "Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to seperate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord"[/quote]

That doesn't mean we can't walk away.

Sin will separate us from God. Sin is our choice, not God's.

 

[awaken]

Romans 10:10 - "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation"

Romans 10:13 - "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

You can be saved from drowning by a lifeguard.

That doesn't mean that you won't drown some other time.

This example does not give much credit to the lifegauard....my lifegaurd never leaves me..

 

[glorydaz]

The fact remains...good works do not save us. Good works are the evidence of one's salvation. :yes

So with no evidence, you aren't saved, no matter how much faith you have, correct?

Thus, without love, you are not saved.

Thanks for clearing that up. Faith alone is nothing. 1 Cor 13:2.

Now Joe...you're misleading again. :yes

The fruit of the Spirit is both love and faith. Neither are things we have to work up for ourselves. They are produced in us by the Spirit within.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[chestertonrules]

Romans 10:10 - "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation"

Romans 10:13 - "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"

You can be saved from drowning by a lifeguard.

That doesn't mean that you won't drown some other time.

This example does not give much credit to the lifegauard....my lifegaurd never leaves me..

You are free to leave him.

 

[glorydaz]

The scripture is very clear concerning this..."hath everlasting life...is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jesus and Paul often refers to "death" and "life" in the spiritual realm, our status TODAY. Those in Christ have life. Those without Christ are "dead". They are indeed PHYSICALLY alive, but are dead to God, spiritually dead. Thus, when Christ says "we have passed from death unto life", He is refering to being born from above, spiritually alive to Christ, no longer "dead" in a relationship.

However, as all relationships, they are not unconditionally established and can be effected by either party's responses. The Bible clearly tells us that God will never leave us. The Bible clearly tells us that man can leave God. Thus, a man can be considered "dead" once again by returning to a 'dead' lifestyle.

Jesus is talking about our relationship with God, not about heaven.

Regards

Of course He is talking about heaven...just read it in context and it should be clear.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Here we see "should not perish, but have everlasting life" is not speaking about our relationship, but being comdemned or not condemned depending on whether we believe or not.

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[awaken]

You can be saved from drowning by a lifeguard.

That doesn't mean that you won't drown some other time.

This example does not give much credit to the lifegauard....my lifegaurd never leaves me..

You are free to leave him.

And my sheperd will come looking for me! Because I am HIS! What can seperate me from my Savior?

 

[glorydaz]

Two questions...
Does the New Testament ever say that those who do not have faith will not be allowed into heaven? Yes, the New Testament specifically says this (e.g. Mark 16:16, John 3:18), and everyone in the faith-alone group and the faith-plus-works group all agree on this point.

Does the New Testament ever say that those that do not have works will not enter heaven?

If there is not fruit of the Spirit then there is no new life. Fortunately, God sees into the heart of man, and we don't have to count on the judgment of men. Not all will flaunt their "good works" for all to see. Someone can be a prayer warrior and no one will see the fruit produced but God. Do they show forth the love of God in their heart through love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, or temperance? We will know them by their fruit....not their "good works".

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[Drew]

So repentence is something that is added to faith in order to recieve salvation? The thief on the cross as an example.

Here is what I think that Paul's argument is.

1. There will indeed be a future judgement for all mankind at which eternal life will be granted according to deeds. This is clear from Romans 2, and I assume you have read all the implausible arguments that try to avoid this.

2. A person who, in the present, places faith in Jesus has their sins forgiven and is given the Holy Spirit. This is an act of pure grace on God's part - we do not "earn" the gift of the Spirit - it is simply given to those who believe.

3. The Holy Spirit transforms the person into the kind of person who will pass the Romans 2 (and 2 Corinthians 5) judgement at which eternal life is awarded according to deeds. This is the basis of assurance - it is not "me" who is responsible for the saving deeds, it is the Spirit.

Now people will simply presume that "having your sins forgiven" is the basis for being awarded eternal life. However, no one will be able to make a Biblical case for this (just watch). Important point: Just because those who have their sins forgiven are indeed always ultimately saved (except if basically turn their back wholesale on God), this does not mean that this forgiveness is the basis of ultimate salvation.

Paul means what he says (why people think otherwise and claim to hold to Scriptural authority is a profound mystery) - eternal life is granted based on "good works".

 

[francisdesales]

Does the New Testament ever say that those that do not have works will not enter heaven?

YES...

The parable of the talents. The parable of the sheep and the goats. The parable of the foolish virgins.

Oh, how about your just read all of Matthew 25...

there is much more, but you can find it all readily laid out there...

As an aside, "works" are not works of the Law, but "works of Love".

Regards

 

[awaken]

Two questions...
Does the New Testament ever say that those who do not have faith will not be allowed into heaven? Yes, the New Testament specifically says this (e.g. Mark 16:16, John 3:18), and everyone in the faith-alone group and the faith-plus-works group all agree on this point.

Does the New Testament ever say that those that do not have works will not enter heaven?

If there is not fruit of the Spirit then there is no new life. Fortunately, God sees into the heart of man, and we don't have to count on the judgment of men. Not all will flaunt their "good works" for all to see. Someone can be a prayer warrior and no one will see the fruit produced but God. Do they show forth the love of God in their heart through love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, or temperance? We will know them by their fruit....not their "good works".

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Agreed..the fruit of the Spirit is evidence of salvation!

Our works is evidence that we had faith to begin with! But our works can not save us..it just proves we have faith! It is the faith in Christ that saves us!

Salvation comes through faith...because of our faith..we will do the works...and we will do the works in love, joy, peace longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meedness, temperance... fruit of the Spirit..

But from the OT...to the NT..it still boils down to FAITH!! We cannot please God without it!

 

[glorydaz]

He that overcomes, the wicked one, sin in his flesh, is saved from his sins and is no longer a servant to sin.
Rev 2:17
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. KJV

Joe

Isn't overcoming the same thing as persevering?

Jesus overcame the world...and by faith, we have overcome, too.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Believers have assurance of their salvation...we have the witness (Holy Spirit) in us. John has written these things so that we may KNOW we have eternal life. Why do some not know this?

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[francisdesales]

Of course He is talking about heaven...just read it in context and it should be clear.

Very well, take that approach. Let's see where it goes.

Now, read the verses again. Heaven is given to those who HEAR the Lord and are found DOING the will of the Lord.

It appears that Jesus is telling us the same thing that Paul is telling us in Romans 2.

Read John 5:29.

Fits in quite well with what Paul says in Romans 2.

Thus, I fail to see your point of bringing up John 5 without looking at WHO will hear the voice of the Lord. It is not those who had "faith", but those who DID. So, if we look at your manner of interpretation, one cannot help but see you have defeated your sola fide viewpoint...

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Nothing about faith. The determining factor is one what you did (faith in God is presumed here)... Just like Paul.

The person who will not be condemned is the person who has faith working in love, not FAITH ALONE!!!

:amen

 

[chestertonrules]

And my sheperd will come looking for me! Because I am HIS! What can seperate me from my Savior?

2 Chronicles 15:2 "If you search for him, he will let himself be found by you; but if you leave him, he will leave you".

1 Corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he is standing, beware, that he does not fall".

Hebrews 3:12-14 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end."

1 Timothy 1:19 "Keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and their faith has been shipwrecked".

Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore we must pay greater attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away".