Self Righteousness

[Brother Mike]

One of the most powerful and profound posts I've ever read.

Ya, washing Grandma's car was something else.

All I have done was show what is past the grace to all who believe to be saved. Grace and right standing with God can be increased. Jesus saying being faithful in unrighteous mammon, qualifies you for true riches. The favor of God, the power to pray and ask, and it's done.
More than once I have had God tell me, I will help them, because you asked me to.

Now self-righteousness. or self right standing seems off when speaking about being a Christian. That seems more to be a Worldly imposed set of standards.

I only robbed banks, and gave some of that to the Church. You on the other hand pushed little old ladies in front of buses. The fires of hell are burning much more hotter for you than me.

 

[Brother Mike]

It's not easy to understand. For example, if grace means goodwill according to the dictionary, it also suggests kindness and mercy and forgiveness and compassion and love. So it is possible to grow and mature. It can also refer to rewards to be received when the Lord Jesus returns ie. a crown of glory.

it's translated benefit, favor, gift, liberty. It can be increased, comes from God, and empowers us here and now. Rewards come according to the work every man has done when judged for things done in the flesh. Did you complete your race? Do your own thing, the way you wanted?

A mans works is tried, if they don't match what they were suppose to do they are burned up. The man is still saved though.

 

[Kidron]

Actually when you are born of the Spirit of God your heart and soul and mind do begin to conform to the image of his Son.
Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.

Absolutely.
So many things happen when we become born again.
We become "joint heirs" with Christ.. Romans 8:17
And this gives us access to all that God has and all that God is...
I mean there we are, now "seated in heavenly places" Eph 2:6.

this 'in Christ" that we have become, this "Christ in you the hope of Glory"......is a complete transformation in God's eyes whereby we are now a part of everything he is..
And the more we come to understand that we are truly just passing through the earth physical realm and are already "one" with God and Christ, then we can begin to think of ourselves as transformed by the blood atonement into the Sonship position in this life down here.
God is no longer our judge, .....he has become our Father.
Salvation is such Amazing Grace.

 

[Kidron]

Ya, washing Grandma's car was something else.

All I have done was show what is past the grace to all who believe to be saved..

Well, to be honest, thats not quite all you've done.
[Saracastic remark. ToS 2.4]
One of the other things you've done is avoided these 3 questions i asked you on this same thread.
[Saracastic remark. ToS 2.4]
---------------------------------------------------------------

1.) Do you believe that anything outside of the Blood Atonement allows God to accept us and redeem us as his born again Children for all eternity?

2.) Do you believe that this Blood Atonement, this "Salvation", this redemption that Christ purchased with his blood.. is a free gift that we dont earn or work to keep?

3.) Do you have the "gift of healing", as its defined in the NT as one of the 9 spiritual gifts?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I really am torn about this. It does have a negative connotation. I feel like if I say I'm not righteous, then I'm blaspheming the Holy Spirit that is connected with my spirit now.

"the two become one" mystery of Christ and his church. I said it is a paradox earlier and I think I still feel that way.

This picture looks righteous to me: Revelation 19:8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear."

Try this on for size....

"20 "For I say to you that unless * your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

All I have done was show what is past the grace to all who believe to be saved. Grace and right standing with God can be increased.

I knew what you meant when you said 'earn' grace. I wouldn't use the word 'earn', but I understood what you were saying.
A person has to be in the place of grace to receive that grace. You described some of those 'places' we have to be if we want to be in God's graces.

 

[Brother Mike]

I knew what you meant when you said 'earn' grace. I wouldn't use the word 'earn', but I understood what you were saying.
A person has to be in the place of grace to receive that grace. You described some of those 'places' we have to be if we want to be in God's graces.

Right on Brother. We can use scriptures, break down the Greek for Grace, Righteousness, and quote 20 more scripture.

Thing is, if we don't obey God, do the things we believe he directed, then we don't position ourselves to receive all the things God planed for us.

The OP was about Self-Righteousness. Seem to have gotten away from that thought here on Page 16. Thank you Jethro. We do agree sometimes.

1.) Do you believe that anything outside of the Blood Atonement allows God to accept us and redeem us as his born again Children for all eternity?

2.) Do you believe that this Blood Atonement, this "Salvation", this redemption that Christ purchased with his blood.. is a free gift that we dont earn or work to keep?

3.) Do you have the "gift of healing", as its defined in the NT as one of the 9 spiritual gifts?

As great as the questions are. They are miles apart from the original OP. Also, If you actually read my post carefully, then you would also know how I would answer each of those questions, Including the Healing one. I could go and highlight all the places I answered them through the threads, then again, that won't help you learn to make some attempt to understand what other people are trying to say. I don't seem to be the only one here, you don't understand.

Mike.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thank you Jethro. We do agree sometimes.

We agree more times than you may realize. :wink
My roots are Word of Faith. The Holy Spirit would be a purely academic teaching if it were not for my beginnings being in the Spirit-filled church.

 

[Brother Mike]

The Holy Spirit would be a purely academic teaching

Well, Amen. Your right there, Knowledge of someone, is not knowing someone.

 

[MarkT]

it's translated benefit, favor, gift, liberty. It can be increased, comes from God, and empowers us here and now. Rewards come according to the work every man has done when judged for things done in the flesh. Did you complete your race? Do your own thing, the way you wanted?

A mans works is tried, if they don't match what they were suppose to do they are burned up. The man is still saved though.

There are different translations of the Greek word the RSV translates as grace. If you go back to the Old Testament for your understanding, it becomes clear grace is derived from gracious, as in, 'I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy'. EX. 33:19

Psalm 6:2
Be gracious to me, O Lord, for I am languishing; O Lord, heal me, for my bones are troubled.
Psalm 9:13
Be gracious to me, O Lord! Behold what I suffer from those who hate me, O thou who liftest me up from the gates of death,
Psalm 25:16
Turn thou to me, and be gracious to me; for I am lonely and afflicted.
Psalm 26:11
But as for me, I walk in my integrity; redeem me, and be gracious to me.
Psalm 27:7
Hear, O Lord, when I cry aloud, be gracious to me and answer me
Psalm 30:10
Hear, O Lord, and be gracious to me! O Lord, be thou my helper!”
Psalm 31:9
Be gracious to me, O Lord, for I am in distress; my eye is wasted from grief, my soul and my body also.
Psalm 41:4
As for me, I said, “O Lord, be gracious to me; heal me, for I have sinned against thee!”

So David is asking God to be merciful, 'be my help, heal me'. So, 'By the grace of God' means by his mercy, by his help.

So I don't know about grace increasing. Does God become more kind, more merciful?

 

[Kidron]

Try this on for size....

"20 "For I say to you that unless * your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20 NASB)

I have good news for you, or any believer.
We have the "righteousness of Christ", the moment we are saved.
So as this certainly surpasses the "righteousness of the pharisees", then you can stop posting that scripture that has absolutely no relationship to a Christian.
Thx.

K

 

[LovethroughDove]

I have good news for you, or any believer.
We have the "righteousness of Christ", the moment we are saved.
So as this certainly surpasses the "righteousness of the pharisees", then you can stop posting that scripture that has absolutely no relationship to a Christian.
Thx.

K

I think he was posting that scripture to help me with the self-righteous question. Jesus says "your righteousness", "not your righteousness in me"..............so I can be self-righteous knowing I'm born again. Pretty sure.

 

[Kidron]

I've always stated my righteousness has always been my love for Jesus. I think that is my righteousness surpassing the Pharisees.

You are saved, right?
Then God has given you the ETERNAL "gift of righteousness", for FREE.
Its done.....and its not based on your behavior.
Its based on what Christ did for you.

 

[Qchan]

You are saved, right?
Then God has given you the ETERNAL "gift of righteousness", for FREE.
Its done.....and its not based on your behavior.
Its based on what Christ did for you.

I agree with this.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Yes. I'm saved.
Is my love for Jesus the gift I was given also? Or is it me? You tell me.
Cause I think that is righteous. And I will go with whatever you say.

 

[Kidron]

Yes. I'm saved.
Is my love for Jesus the gift I was given also? Or is it me? You tell me.
Cause I think that is righteous. And I will go with whatever you say.

I think your love for Jesus is an expression of you heart.

 

[Kidron]

I agree with this.

yeah..

Its like that old bumper sticker....

"if you could earn it, then why did Jesus have to die".


God bless,


K

 

[By Grace]

Amazing, that is what I first stated.

So then, if Grace can increase more and more, then righteousness (Right standing with) can also increase.<snip>

I suspect that you and Kidron may be conflating terms, and therefore are unable to agree.
the two terms you may be conflating are salvation and sanctification.

According to the Bible salvation is eternal because it is always by grace and not merit, it is centered upon the finished work of Jesus Christ, and not on the sin-tarnished works of humanity, and just like Abraham, salvation is always based upon faith. Therefore it is impossible for one to be "more saved" today, and "less saved" yesterday.
Acts 4:12
Hebrews 5:9
1 Thessalonians 5:9;
Genesis 15:6
Ephesians 2:8–9
Titus 2:11

OTOH sanctification is both rooted in the point when we were saved, and it is progressive because we grow in grace, and our becoming more Christ like daily.
Ephesians 5:26
1 Thessalonians 5:22-23

Of course there is another element to this sanctification, and that is our justification, meaning that we have a proper standing before God the Father because He sees the righteousness and holiness of Jesus Christ imputed to us through his all-sufficient Atonement . That, by definition, is also instantaneous and permanent.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(Not to be gross, but it is impossible for a man to regrow or reattach a foreskin) Once circumcised, always circumcised.
Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I have good news for you, or any believer.
We have the "righteousness of Christ", the moment we are saved.
So as this certainly surpasses the "righteousness of the pharisees"....

We all know this. You're preaching to the choir.

What the church is ignorant about, thanks to distorted grace teaching permeating the church at this present time, is what Jesus then goes on to explain--what the righteousness of Christ looks like in a person.

Bad teaching about grace has taught the church to look right past the paragraph upon paragraph in the Bible of what the Christian's obligation is to the righteousness they have received through their faith in Christ. One person in this forum even laughed when I said we have an obligation to live a certain way. That's how bad it's gotten in the church today. It's a very sad situation.

You're not crazy, LovethroughDove . The righteousness of Christ was given to us as a free gift through which 'self' then acts righteously. The agent of righteousness is the Holy Spirit. He is the deposit of righteousness from God that we have that increases our righteous living until we receive the whole of righteousness at the resurrection:

"5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope." (Galatians 5:5 NASB)

The hope of the Christian is to one day be perfectly righteous in word and deed, not just in status, just as Christ is righteous in all he says and does. Of course, there are those who can only hear that as self righteousness, according to it's negative connotation. But I'm speaking of when we will be permeated with the righteous nature of God and 'self' will act accordingly. The journey to that righteousness started the day we got born again.

 

[JLB]

We all know this. You're preaching to the choir.

What the church is ignorant about, thanks to distorted grace teaching permeating the church at this present time, is what Jesus then goes on to explain--what the righteousness of Christ looks like in a person.

Bad teaching about grace has taught the church to look right past the paragraph upon paragraph in the Bible of what the Christian's obligation is to the righteousness they have received through their faith in Christ. One person in this forum even laughed when I said we have an obligation to live a certain way. That's how bad it's gotten in the church today. It's a very sad situation.

You're not crazy, LovethroughDove . The righteousness of Christ was given to us as a free gift through which 'self' then acts righteously. The agent of righteousness is the Holy Spirit. He is the deposit of righteousness from God that we have that increases our righteous living until we receive the whole of righteousness at the resurrection:

"5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope." (Galatians 5:5 NASB)

The hope of the Christian is to one day be perfectly righteous in word and deed, not just in status, just as Christ is righteous in all he says and does. Of course, there are those who can only hear that as self righteousness, according to it's negative connotation. But I'm speaking of when we will be permeated with the righteous nature of God and 'self' will act accordingly. The journey to that righteousness started the day we got born again.

This is by far the best worded post of this thread!

Well done brother.

This scripture from Galatians is a home run with the bases loaded.

5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope." (Galatians 5:5 NASB)


JLB