Self Righteousness

[Kidron]

Great.

So, do you also agree with the following premises:

1) Satan has the power to persuade people to do what he wants them to do.


Its more then that...actually.
People have an Adamic nature....its a fallen nature, and its the Devil's nature.
Jesus once told a group of religious leaders that "you are OF your FATHER the DEVIL, and the works/lusts that he does, you will do".
So, this is the core issue.
Each of us has this fallen nature within..... that desires the same things that the Devil is all about.
>Lust< in some form, shape, or fashion.
So, when you speak about "being persuaded", what you have to think about is that the persuasion, is within us.
The temptation, is within us..
So, the Devil uses what we are, to draw us towards what we already want to do.
We sin because we are sinners who like the feeling of sin.
So, its not a huge leap for a person to go from not doing something wrong, to doing something wrong, as this is a very very short distance that is within us, all the time.
We hardly need the Devil's help to make this step.


2) God has the power to persuade people to do what he wants them to do.

God's "persuasion" in general is to allow us the free will to choose what we want to do.
He wont step in, in most cases, and block you from a choice.
He has bound himself with our free will.
This is why, if someone goes to "hell", they can never blame God, as he does not send anyone to hell.....all he does is let you decide that you are going to Christ-reject the way to heaven, which leaves you with the only other destination that you CHOSE for yourself.
Going to heaven or going to hell, is a free will choice that you make...and God honors your choice.

God is TRUTH, and he would have us to understand, within our conscience, how to distinguish right from wrong.
And Wisdom is the ability to discern differences.......So, he tends to persuade by allowing us to understand the differences and to estimate the consequences of a choice, and then he lets us decide.




K

 

[Kidron]

The Hebrew church is a saved church.

Nowhere in the book of Hebrews, thats called the book of Hebrews, because its written to Hebrews and not the "Church", will you find a verse that can prove what you just said.
If you think the book of Hebrews is a "church" full of Hebrews, then good luck proving it.
And you didnt get this idea from the Book of Hebrews, so where you got this "church" idea, would be interesting for you to explain.

 

[Kidron]

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

This is written to born again Christians, of whom John is including himself, by saying "we".
John goes on to say, If we confess our sins...

JLB

Maybe this will help.

If you go to the Book of Romans, and open to chapter 4:8 you'll read something interesting.

"Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

Now, do you see that verse?
That's written to a believer, and what its telling you is.....that your sin, is not held against you anymore.
Its not saying you wont sin, or that you haven't recently, ....but it teaching that no matter if you do, God no longer holds it against you.

So, you would tell God you are sorry for your sins, but you do so to keep a clear conscience, and never to try to get him to AGAIN forgive you for what he has already forgiven you for, thru Christ.
As he just told you that he no longer holds you accountable for your sins.
EVER AGAIN.

So take this truth, and then see 1John 1-9 in a different light .


K

 

[WIP]

I'm going to respectfully request that we back off of the personal comments suggesting that others are ignoring previous posts or the belittling of others because one feels they are less knowledgeable. We are all at different points or levels in our walk of faith and we need to respect where each is at. See ToS 2.4.

This is one of the reasons the guidelines require that we stick to the scriptures when posting our differences.

Thank you,

WIP

 

[Kidron]

Unbelieving people will have their part in the lake of fire...

JLB

Yes, that would be 2 Thess 1:8

""""""In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ""""


So, if you read it, you'll note that the vengeance or the "hell" you are quoting, is for the LOST people.
Unsaved.
People who have not believed on Jesus and been born again.
These are the "unbelievers", the "lost"......and never a Christian, as a Christian has passed from death to life, and is already a part of the family of God.
What is left for them, is only Grace and eternal life.


K

 

[Qchan]

1) Satan has the power to persuade people to do what he wants them to do.


Its more then that...actually.
People have an Adamic nature....its a fallen nature, and its the Devil's nature.
Jesus once told a group of religious leaders that "you are OF your FATHER the DEVIL, and the works/lusts that he does, you will do".
So, this is the core issue.
Each of us has this fallen nature within..... that desires the same things that the Devil is all about.
>Lust< in some form, shape, or fashion.
So, when you speak about "being persuaded", what you have to think about is that the persuasion, is within us.
The temptation, is within us..
So, the Devil uses what we are, to draw us towards what we already want to do.
We sin because we are sinners who like the feeling of sin.
So, its not a huge leap for a person to go from not doing something wrong, to doing something wrong, as this is a very very short distance that is within us, all the time.
We hardly need the Devil's help to make this step.


2) God has the power to persuade people to do what he wants them to do.

God's "persuasion" in general is to allow us the free will to choose what we want to do.
He wont step in, in most cases, and block you from a choice.
He has bound himself with our free will.
This is why, if someone goes to "hell", they can never blame God, as he does not send anyone to hell.....all he does is let you decide that you are going to Christ-reject the way to heaven, which leaves you with the only other destination that you CHOSE for yourself.
Going to heaven or going to hell, is a free will choice that you make...and God honors your choice.

God is TRUTH, and he would have us to understand, within our conscience, how to distinguish right from wrong.
And Wisdom is the ability to discern differences.......So, he tends to persuade by allowing us to understand the differences and to estimate the consequences of a choice, and then he lets us decide.

1) OK. So, you do agree that Satan has the ability to persuade, yes? Please keep your reply short and simple. Yes or No?

2) Well, God did persuade Paul (known as Saul at the time) to follow Him, did he not? Didn't God persuade Moses to lead His people out of Egypt? Didn't God persuade Gideon to act as Judge for His people? God did not force any of these people to do what he wanted them to do. At first, all three of these people objected.

a) Moses objected because he didn't think he had what it took to be a leader, and plus he had a speech impediment. He argued with God.

b) Gideon also objected and didn't think he had the power to defeat armies the Lord said he could defeat.

c) Saul persecuted Christians. Then, Saul was knocked off his horse and then blinded. That was enough to convince him.


So, let me ask you again. Please make your answer simple and contained. Does God have the ability to persuade people or not? Yes or No?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Nowhere in the book of Hebrews, thats called the book of Hebrews, because its written to Hebrews and not the "Church", will you find a verse that can prove what you just said.
If you think the book of Hebrews is a "church" full of Hebrews, then good luck proving it.
And you didnt get this idea from the Book of Hebrews, so where you got this "church" idea, would be interesting for you to explain.

The author himself considers them saved:

7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though * we are speaking in this way. 10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
(Hebrews 6:7-12 NASB)

Not only does he consider them saved--as evidenced by them producing the fruit of the kingdom, not thorns and thistles--he exhorts them to persevere in their faith and patience to the very end so they can have assurance of the hope they have.

 

[Kidron]

1)


So, let me ask you again. Does God have the ability to persuade people or not?

How about Jonah?

so, if God wants to be persuasive, he certainly can do it.
yes.
Now, you are going to ask me something, via all this groundwork you are laying
What is it?
Fire away.

 

[Kidron]

he exhorts them to persevere in their faith and patience to the very end so they can have assurance of the hope they have.

No he does not.
He does not say they have "faith", JB.
Read it.
He says this...
12 We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.
He is telling them to copy., what someone else has..

also, the word beloved..., this is also "friend", depending on the manuscript or bible version.

So, when Paul is preaching to them about "willfully sinning", he is simply telling them that to hear the Gospel and to willfully reject it.... IS to re-crucify Christ.
Thats the POV, here, and not anything about losing salvation or saved Hebrews.

Paul would not be offering Salvation to those who are already saved.
And he would not be warning saved Hebrew about Hell, when he is the very one who teaches that you cant lose your salvation.

 

[Qchan]

How about Jonah?

so, if God wants to be persuasive, he certainly can do it.
yes.
Now, you are going to ask me something, via all this groundwork you are laying
What is it?
Fire away.

Fantastic.

If Satan has the ability to persuade people to his side and he's been successful at persuading 90% of the world to his way, then why would God, who is infinitely more powerful than Satan, not be able to persuade those same people to his side without violating their free will?

If God is not willing that anyone should perish (2 Peter 3:9), He desires that everyone be saved and understand the truth (1 Timothy 2:4), and does all that he desires (Isaiah 46:10), then why would he wish to send off his own children to hell forever? Wouldn't it make more sense that God would, instead, convince those who do not follow him to follow him?

 

[JLB]

Fantastic.

If Satan has the ability to persuade people to his side and he's been successful at persuading 90% of the world to his way, then why would God, who is infinitely more powerful than Satan, not be able to persuade those same people to his side without violating their free will?

If God is not willing that anyone should perish (2 Peter 3:9), He desires that everyone be saved and understand the truth (1 Timothy 2:4), and does all that he desires (Isaiah 46:10), then why would he wish to send off his own children to hell forever? Wouldn't it make more sense that God would, instead, convince those who do not follow him to follow him?

God desires you to have the freedom of choice.

Freewill to chose this day whom you will serve.

15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
Joshua 24:15


Freewill to choose blessing or cursing, to Love God and serve Him, or to worship other gods -

15 "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them,
18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.
19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."
Deuteronomy 30:15-20


Satan uses deception and lies and fear to blind your mind and will to serve him.


JLB

 

[Kidron]

Fantastic.

If Satan has the ability to persuade people to his side and he's been successful at persuading 90% of the world to his way, then why would God, who is infinitely more powerful than Satan, not be able to persuade those same people to his side without violating their free will?

If God is not willing that anyone should perish (2 Peter 3:9), He desires that everyone be saved and understand the truth (1 Timothy 2:4), and does all that he desires (Isaiah 46:10), then why would he wish to send off his own children to hell forever? Wouldn't it make more sense that God would, instead, convince those who do not follow him to follow him?

The reason that even God cant persuade some people to accept the free gift of pardon is:

John 3:19.....
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Its simple.
People love to sin, They love it, and they dont want to give it up, and they feel that if they "get religion", then they will have to stop pursuing what their Adamic Nature loves to pursue, which it the > "pleasures of sin".
And where the devil comes in, is here....
2nd Corinthians 4:4
"""The god of this age (Devil) has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.""""

and now to your Second question....

Well, you have made a wrong assumption.
You have assumed incorrectly that GOD SENDS people, or causes people, to "go to hell".
This is fallacy.
God does NOT send anyone.....he merely allows them the free will to chose where they end up, and HONORS their choice.

Think of it like this.

There is a road.
Its 1/2 mile long.
A person is standing in the middle of the middle, of the road.
They look left, and at the end they see, hell and the devil, and eternal flames.
They look right, and there between them and the end of the road, is Jesus, and beyond him, they see Heaven.
Which will they CHOOSE??????

>The person chooses hell.<
So, thats were they go, and why.
God honors your choices in life.


K

 

[Deborah13]

What does willful sin look like?
Heb 10:26 For we--wilfully sinning after the receiving the full knowledge of the truth--no more for sins doth there remain a sacrifice,
G1596
ἑκουσίως
hekousiōs
to sin wilfully as opposed to sins committed inconsiderately, and from ignorance or from weakness

I will just quote here again from Adam Clarke's Commentary on this verse because I believe he is correct in his interpretation. He was a Godly man and could read both Hebrew and Greek. He referred to many MSS in his studies and to other Godly men of his time. He was not a Calvinist but an Arminian.

"For if we sin wilfully - If we deliberately, for fear of persecution or from any other motive, renounce the profession of the Gospel and the Author of that Gospel, after having received the knowledge of the truth so as to be convinced that Jesus is the promised Messiah, and that he had sprinkled our hearts from an evil conscience; for such there remaineth no sacrifice for sins; for as the Jewish sacrifices are abolished, as appears by the declaration of God himself in the fortieth Psalm, and Jesus being now the only sacrifice which God will accept, those who reject him have none other; therefore their case must be utterly without remedy. This is the meaning of the apostle, and the case is that of a deliberate apostate - one who has utterly rejected Jesus Christ and his atonement, and renounced the whole Gospel system. It has nothing to do with backsliders in our common use of that term. A man may be overtaken in a fault, or he may deliberately go into sin, and yet neither renounce the Gospel, nor deny the Lord that bought him. His case is dreary and dangerous, but it is not hopeless; no case is hopeless but that of the deliberate apostate, who rejects the whole Gospel system, after having been saved by grace, or convinced of the truth of the Gospel. To him there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin; for there was but the One, Jesus, and this he has utterly rejected."

I apologize for the length of this quote but I believe it is so important to our understanding. Too, many times this scripture is a stumbling block for those who are truly saved but may be struggling with weaknesses and temptations in their lives and they believe they have lost their salvation. The Lord sees the heart and mind, if there is a tiny flame or even the smoke of a once burning flax He will not put it out. (Isa 42:3) As He did for King David He will save them to the utmost.

 

[Kidron]

What does willful sin look like?
Heb 10:26 For we--wilfully sinning after the receiving the full knowledge of the truth--no more for sins doth there remain a sacrifice,

Great, an easy scripture to deal with.
Thank you.
first, let me post the verse so that its a bit easier to read while not losing the point.

"""""For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,"""""

Now...
Lets understand first the topic.
The topic of this verse is "salvation", "the blood of Christ", and "faith".

The speaker is preaching the gospel, and he is also giving them a fair warning of what will happen if they knowingly reject (willfully), Christ.

So, here we go.
let me amplify the verse, and bring it right home to you.

"Listen Hebrews, if you knowingly reject Jesus Christ , after i have told you the truth, given you the history, shown you signs, shared the Gospel, and you tasted the heavenly conviction of the Holy Spirit...... then there is no other way for you to be saved as you are willfully rejecting God's Grace,..., and in doing so, you are just the same as those who rejected Christ and hung him on a cross, except you are doing it NOW.....as if he is here NOW, "FRESH".



K

 

[Qchan]

The reason that even God cant persuade some people to accept the free gift of pardon is:

John 3:19.....
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Its simple.
People love to sin, They love it, and they dont want to give it up, and they feel that if they "get religion", then they will have to stop pursuing what their Adamic Nature loves to pursue, which it the > "pleasures of sin".
And where the devil comes in, is here....
2nd Corinthians 4:4
"""The god of this age (Devil) has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.""""

and now to your Second question....

Well, you have made a wrong assumption.
You have assumed incorrectly that GOD SENDS people, or causes people, to "go to hell".
This is fallacy.
God does NOT send anyone.....he merely allows them the free will to chose where they end up, and HONORS their choice.

Think of it like this.

There is a road.
Its 1/2 mile long.
A person is standing in the middle of the middle, of the road.
They look left, and at the end they see, hell and the devil, and eternal flames.
They look right, and there between them and the end of the road, is Jesus, and beyond him, they see Heaven.
Which will they CHOOSE??????

>The person chooses hell.<
So, thats were they go, and why.
God honors your choices in life.


K

1) But you agreed that nothing is too hard for God nor was anything impossible for God. Yet, you put God and the word "can't" in the same sentence. Are you trying to tell me that God isn't all powerful and that there are things that are impossible for him to do?

Also, the bible says in 1 John 1:8 that we are all sinners. Jesus came to this world to save us sinners, yet you're saying he didn't. As you know, majority of this world does not know Christ. If majority of this world is going to hell, then Jesus didn't come to save the world, but rather, only a small portion of the world. That would be false. This leads into our second premise.

2) No one chooses torture. It's illogical to assume any person would rather be tortured than be in the warm embrace of God's love. Also, considering that God is all powerful, he can create a rule that would prevent anyone from going into a fiery dungeon called hell. So, either way you slice it, it would be God that allows those people to be tortured forever. That is not God.

God loves his enemies (Luke 6:35 & 1 Cor 13). No one allows people they love to be tortured. That's sadistic. So, why assume God will?

The people who do not know Christ surely aren't choosing to be tortured. You also have to wonder about the people who lived before Christ. What about all the other nations outside of Israel who weren't God's people? Because they weren't given the opportunity to know God or Christ, are you suggesting they "chose" to go to hell? On top of that, the bible says that no one could follow the Law except Jesus Christ who was without sin. That means everyone under the law died in sin. Christ wasn't born when Moses, Jacob, Elijah, Ester, Job and etc. were around. In fact, even if they did follow Mosaic Law to the tee, it wouldn't justify them, because no one is justified under the Law (Galatians 3:11). The Law is a curse (Galatians 3:10 & Galatians 3:13), and its purpose was to stir up sin (Romans 7:5).

So, essentially, what you just said was that everybody who lives, ever lived and ever will live, except Christians, are going to hell. I just want you to think about that for a moment.

 

[Qchan]

God desires you to have the freedom of choice.

Freewill to chose this day whom you will serve.

15 And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
Joshua 24:15


Freewill to choose blessing or cursing, to Love God and serve Him, or to worship other gods -

15 "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.
17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them,
18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.
19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."
Deuteronomy 30:15-20


Satan uses deception and lies and fear to blind your mind and will to serve him.


JLB

I'm sorry. I disagree.

Your free will cannot stop God from doing what he wants to do. God is love, and no loving God will sit there and allow you to destroy yourself. Remember that God knew the end since the beginning (Isaiah 46:10). That means God knew that many people would live through life without ever knowing or seeking him. To assume that God would simply let these people perish is to say that God created certain individuals while knowing they were beyond help from the beginning. If God knew they were beyond help since the beginning, then it would make no sense to create them in the first place just to watch them stumble and fail. It's illogical. Many Calvinist believe this, but I simply have to disagree with this notion.

 

[Kidron]

1) But you agreed that nothing is too hard for God nor was anything impossible for God. Yet, you put God and the word "can't" in the same sentence. Are you trying to tell me that God isn't all powerful and that there are things that are impossible for him to do?

Also, the bible says in 1 John 1:8 that we are all sinners. Jesus came to this world to save us sinners, yet you're saying he didn't. As you know, majority of this world does not know Christ. If majority of this world is going to hell, then Jesus didn't come to save the world, but rather, only a small portion of the world. That would be false. This leads into our second premise.

2) No one chooses torture. It's illogical to assume any person would rather be tortured than be in the warm embrace of God's love. Also, considering that God is all powerful, he can create a rule that would prevent anyone from going into a fiery dungeon called hell. So, either way you slice it, it would be God that allows those people to be tortured forever. That is not God.

God loves his enemies (Luke 6:35 & 1 Cor 13). No one allows people they love to be tortured. That's sadistic. So, why assume God will?

The people who do not know Christ surely aren't choosing to be tortured. You also have to wonder about the people who lived before Christ. What about all the other nations outside of Israel who weren't God's people? Because they weren't given the opportunity to know God or Christ, are you suggesting they "chose" to go to hell? On top of that, the bible says that no one could follow the Law except Jesus Christ who was without sin. That means everyone under the law died in sin. Christ wasn't born when Moses, Jacob, Elijah, Ester, Job and etc. were around. In fact, even if they did follow Mosaic Law to the tee, it wouldn't justify them, because no one is justified under the Law (Galatians 3:11). The Law is a curse (Galatians 3:10 & Galatians 3:13), and its purpose was to stir up sin (Romans 7:5).

So, essentially, what you just said was that everybody who lives, ever lived and ever will live, except Christians, are going to hell. I just want you to think about that for a moment.

Its a lot you just wrote, lots of questions.
So, ill try to answer them, but probably not in order.
First, you need to study the word.. "Paradise" as it was used by Jesus when talking to a dying thief....then study "Abraham's bosom", to find out what happened to old testament "saints".

Next, God is bound by his word.
In other words, he cant break it, and so, if he has created a situation that allows for forgiveness of a person, of a world full of people, and some of them choose to not take the forgiveness, then in fact, they have chosen the consequence.
Had God designed a world of designer puppets, without free will, then the answer to your question would be....."sure, God can just make all the puppets choose heaven".
However, he is dealing with spiritual beings, who are created in his image, with the power of choice, and even tho he could have killed the Snake when it was tempting EVE, ......he's not going to do it, because that is not how truth, free will, and the operation of human kind has been designed.
Its is not designed to exist as spiritual puppetry, but rather its designed to behave with reason and responsibility and choice and consequence, and so, the consequence of choosing to reject Christ, is going to end where all those go who willingly refused Jesus.
Yes.

Finally, does not lawbreaking demand justice?
So, does not a life of sinning, demand a penalty?
It in fact, does.
CHRIST was KILLED as the penalty for our sins.
That is how SERIOUS God sees the situation, and we have to see it the same.
Do you think God was playing around when he came here, wrapped himself in flesh, and had the flesh beaten off of his body so that the bible say he was "unrecognizable"?....then they nailed him to a tree, and he pushed off the spike in his feet up and down, up and down, bleeding out, till he could no longer push his body up again and suffocated hanging there.
Do you think that Salvation that God himself provided on this horrible horrible Cross, is something that if avoided or mocked, should not lead to a penalty?
Should not the consequence of the rejection of Christ be equal to the suffering that Christ did to forgive us all?
Do you think that you dont love your Children if you punish them for wrong doing?
So, when considering a lifetime of sinning, a LIFETIME, and rejecting Christ during that lifetime of sinning.........consider that there has to be a consequence, and in fact there is a harsh one, just as the price which Christ paid was also harsh.
The sad thing is.....that the consequence is not God punishing you after you die, as he's not doing that....but rather the punishment is the consequence of where you chose to end up.
The Christ rejector did this to themselves.

 

[JLB]

"Listen Hebrews, if you knowingly reject Jesus Christ , after i have told you the truth, given you the history, shown you signs, shared the Gospel, and you tasted the heavenly conviction of the Holy Spirit...... then there is no other way for you to be saved as you are willfully rejecting God's Grace,..., and in doing so, you are just the same as those who rejected Christ and hung him on a cross, except you are doing it NOW.....as if he is here NOW, "FRESH".

Not even close.

The scriptures says willfully sin, after they have received the knowledge of the truth.

The writer is speaking about saved people, people who have already received the knowledge of the truth.

Your paraphrased version of what the scriptures say, is not accurate.

The writer of the book of Hebrews is dealing with Jews, and he is making a legal argument in favor of the New Covenant, replacing the Old Covenant, which has become obsolete and has vanished away.

These Hebrews were being persuaded to turn back to the law of Moses, after having been saved and received the Spirit.

Those that do this, have turned away from the living God, through persecution by the believing Pharisee's who persuaded them they had to continue keeping the law of Moses.

Paul himself places a curse on those who preach this Gospel.

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-9


That is the context of Hebrews 10:26.

Saved and Spirit filled Jews who have turned back to the law of Moses, no longer have any sacrifice for sin, having rejected the only One who has paid the price for there sin, in favor of keeping an obsolete law, under the threat of persecution.


JLB

 

[Kidron]

Not even close.

The scriptures says willfully sin, after they have received the knowledge of the truth.

The writer is speaking about saved people, people who have already received the knowledge of the truth.

Let me ask you a question, for the purpose of enlightenment.

Have you ever witnessed to someone?
Have you ever talked to someone, stranger, family member, or friend, and told them all about why Jesus died for them, and after you did, they didnt care, didnt want to hear you, and in fact changed the subject??

If you have experienced this, then, you understand that they have "received the knowledge of the truth"., but they didnt take it.
See, Hebrews, does not say they "received the knowledge of the truth, and were SAVED".
It says that a person told them....which is how they received it, as "faith cometh by hearing", , YET, they "sinned willingly", by rejecting it, by not exercising FAITH.
So, how does a person hear the Gospel without receiving this truth, which is in fact KNOWLEDGE, YET< they SIN?, and they sin willingly.???
Well, the exact same way it happened to you, if you have ever once witnessed to someone, and they had no use for it.
You gave them the truth, they received it by hearing it, and it is knowledge they now possess, then they reject it.
Thats what is happening with those Hebrews., and they are being warned about it.

 

[Qchan]

Its a lot you just wrote, lots of questions.
So, ill try to answer them, but probably not in order.
First, you need to study the word.. "Paradise" as it was used by Jesus when talking to a dying thief....then study "Abraham's bosom", to find out what happened to old testament "saints".

The Rich Man and Lazarus is a highly misunderstood parable. It has nothing to do with hell.
Go here and I encourage you to read the whole thing:
http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/71/t/the-rich-man-and-lazarus.aspx

Next, God is bound by his word.
In other words, he cant break it, and so, if he has created a situation that allows for forgiveness of a person, of a world full of people, and some of them choose to not take the forgiveness, then in fact, they have chosen the consequence.
Had God designed a world of designer puppets, without free will, then the answer to your question would be....."sure, God can just make all the puppets choose heaven".
However, he is dealing with spiritual beings, who are created in his image, with the power of choice, and even tho he could have killed the Snake when it was tempting EVE, ......he's not going to do it, because that is not how truth, free will, and the operation of human kind has been designed.
Its is not designed to exist as spiritual puppetry, but rather its designed to behave with reason and responsibility and choice and consequence, and so, the consequence of choosing to reject Christ, is going to end where all those go who willingly refused Jesus.
Yes.

You are still assuming that God cannot persuade them to follow him without violating their free will. If God is all powerful and nothing is impossible for him to do, then surely God can persuade anyone he wants without violating their free will.

Finally, does not lawbreaking demand justice?
So, does not a life of sinning, demand a penalty?
It in fact, does.
CHRIST was KILLED as the penalty for our sins.
That is how SERIOUS God sees the situation, and we have to see it the same.
Do you think God was playing around when he came here, wrapped himself in flesh, and had the flesh beaten off of his body so that the bible say he was "unrecognizable"?....then they nailed him to a tree, and he pushed off the spike in his feet up and down, up and down, bleeding out, till he could no longer push his body up again and suffocated hanging there.
Do you think that Salvation that God himself provided on this horrible horrible Cross, is something that if avoided or mocked, should not lead to a penalty?
Should not the consequence of the rejection of Christ be equal to the suffering that Christ did to forgive us all?
Do you think that you dont love your Children if you punish them for wrong doing?
So, when considering a lifetime of sinning, a LIFETIME, and rejecting Christ during that lifetime of sinning.........consider that there has to be a consequence, and in fact there is a harsh one, just as the price which Christ paid was also harsh.
The sad thing is.....that the consequence is not God punishing you after you die, as he's not doing that....but rather the punishment is the consequence of where you chose to end up.
The Christ rejector did this to themselves.

I disagree. Christ died to save the world. No where does it say that Christ died to save just the believers. John 3:16 says it all. God so loved "The World" not "Just The Believers". The world includes believers and unbelievers alike. God is a fair God. Would it be fair for someone who killed one person to have the same penalty as a person who killed 6 million people? There's nothing fair about that. Should a person who has done nothing but good in his life receive the same punishment as an evil Canaanite simply because they did not know Jesus? Of course not.

Hell doesn't exist. What does exist is the judgement and the Lake of Fire. Hell isn't in the original Hebrew nor is it in the original Greek. The concept of hell is of Satan, designed to keep people away from Christianity, and it's doing a fantastic job considering how Islam is now the fastest growing religion over Christianity.

The judgement and the Lake of Fire correspond to one another. The Lake of Fire is God's purifying fire designed to change the person's heart. If you examine the hundreds of thousands of NDE reports, you'll notice that each single case, the experiencer made a 180 degree - drastic change from their previous lives. Wholly militant atheists becoming full blown pastors, agnostics suddenly becoming bible believers, CEOs who loved nothing but money suddenly quitting their jobs and becoming community organizers, and etc. This is what the judgement and the Lake of Fire does to a person.

And before you say that none of this stuff is believable. Understand that all of this are scientific facts and has scientists and doctors completely baffled (I have over 20 posts now, so it should be OK):