Speaking in tongues and the Holy Spirit

[electedbyHim]

"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins." Scripture with no commentary, speaks for itself.

Salvation is by faith alone.

Advocates of baptismal regeneration typically have a four-part formula for how salvation is received. They believe that a person must believe, repent, confess, and be baptized in order to be saved. They believe this way because there are biblical passages that seem to indicate that each of these actions is necessary for salvation. For example, Romans 10:9–10 links salvation with confession. Acts 2:38 links salvation with repentance and baptism.

Repentance, understood biblically, is required for salvation. Repentance is a change of mind. Repentance, in relation to salvation, is changing your mind from rejection of Christ to acceptance of Christ. It is not a separate step from saving faith. Rather, it is an essential aspect of saving faith. One cannot receive Jesus Christ as Savior, by grace through faith, without a change of mind about who He is and what He did.

Confession, understood biblically, is a demonstration of faith. If a person has truly received Jesus Christ as Savior, proclaiming that faith to others will be a result. If a person is ashamed of Christ and/or ashamed of the message of the gospel, it is highly unlikely that the person has understood the gospel or experienced the salvation that Christ provides.

Baptism, understood biblically, is an identification with Christ. Christian baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:3–4). As with confession, if a person is unwilling to be baptized—unwilling to identify his/her life as being redeemed by Jesus Christ—that person has very likely not been made a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17) through faith in Jesus Christ.

Those who contend for baptismal regeneration and/or this four-part formula for receiving salvation do not view these actions as meritorious works that earn salvation. Repenting, confessing, etc., do not make a person worthy of salvation. Rather, the official view is that faith, repentance, confession, and baptism are “works of obedience,” things a person must do before God grants salvation. While the standard Protestant understanding is that faith is the one thing God requires before salvation is granted, those of the baptismal regeneration persuasion believe that baptism—and, for some, repentance and confession—are additional things God requires before He grants salvation.

The problem with this viewpoint is that there are biblical passages that clearly and explicitly declare faith to be the only requirement for salvation. John 3:16, one of the most well-known verses in the Bible, states, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” In Acts 16:30, the Philippian jailer asks the apostle Paul, “What must I do to be saved?” If there was ever an opportunity for Paul to present a four-part formula, this was it. Paul’s response was simple: “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). No baptism, no confession, just faith.

There are literally dozens of verses in the New Testament that attribute salvation to faith/belief with no other requirement mentioned in the context. If baptism, or anything else, is necessary for salvation, all of these verses are wrong, and the Bible contains errors and is therefore no longer worthy of our trust.

An exhaustive study of the New Testament on various requirements for salvation is not necessary. Receiving salvation is not a process or a multi-step formula. Salvation is a finished product, not a recipe. What must we do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and we will be saved.
Gotquestions.com

 

[Hidden In Him]

1 Peter 1:23 emphasizes the importance of the Word of God in the process of being born again, it is important to understand this verse in the broader context of the New Testament teachings on salvation. Being born again involves a spiritual transformation that goes beyond merely reading or hearing the Word. (I have been quoting lot of passages and people keep saying its my opinion) Jesus said Himself in John 3:5 that one must be "born of water and of the Spirit" to enter the kingdom of God, indicating the necessity of both baptism and the infilling of the Holy Spirit. The Word of God plays a vital role in revealing the truth and guiding a person to faith, but the new birth also involves repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, and receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38). Thus, while the incorruptible seed of God's Word is essential in the rebirth process, it works in conjunction with the believer's response to the Gospel through obedience and the work of the Holy Spirit, leading to a fully transformed life in Christ.

Without divorcing the discussion from scripture, let me put it to you in a succinct way: Because I became a man of the word from the time I accepted Christ, I believe I was already born again at the time of my Spirit baptism (close to a year later). I belonged to God, was born of incorruptible seed, and was on my way to Heaven. Granted. I would have been far more limited in my walk had I not received the baptism, but I say all that to say this. Some occasionally make John 3 out to say things like water or Holy Spirit baptism are absolutely necessary unto salvation, and I think they take the passage entirely out of its context when they teach that. I think He was speaking specifically to the Pharisees, since Nicodemus had come from them and on behalf of them, and He knew the Pharisees would need far more than just a verse or two. They were so steeped in religion that they would need a completely new rebirth experience (water baptism) and the Spirit of God teaching them the word of God all over again with new eyes, aided in large part by the Spirit baptism.

Your thoughts?

 

[My Rock]

Baptism is not part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" These word are spoken by Jesus do you also deny this?

 

[My Rock]

Salvation is by faith alone.

Advocates of baptismal regeneration typically have a four-part formula for how salvation is received. They believe that a person must believe, repent, confess, and be baptized in order to be saved. They believe this way because there are biblical passages that seem to indicate that each of these actions is necessary for salvation. For example, Romans 10:9–10 links salvation with confession. Acts 2:38 links salvation with repentance and baptism.

Repentance, understood biblically, is required for salvation. Repentance is a change of mind. Repentance, in relation to salvation, is changing your mind from rejection of Christ to acceptance of Christ. It is not a separate step from saving faith. Rather, it is an essential aspect of saving faith. One cannot receive Jesus Christ as Savior, by grace through faith, without a change of mind about who He is and what He did.

Confession, understood biblically, is a demonstration of faith. If a person has truly received Jesus Christ as Savior, proclaiming that faith to others will be a result. If a person is ashamed of Christ and/or ashamed of the message of the gospel, it is highly unlikely that the person has understood the gospel or experienced the salvation that Christ provides.

Baptism, understood biblically, is an identification with Christ. Christian baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:3–4). As with confession, if a person is unwilling to be baptized—unwilling to identify his/her life as being redeemed by Jesus Christ—that person has very likely not been made a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17) through faith in Jesus Christ.

Those who contend for baptismal regeneration and/or this four-part formula for receiving salvation do not view these actions as meritorious works that earn salvation. Repenting, confessing, etc., do not make a person worthy of salvation. Rather, the official view is that faith, repentance, confession, and baptism are “works of obedience,” things a person must do before God grants salvation. While the standard Protestant understanding is that faith is the one thing God requires before salvation is granted, those of the baptismal regeneration persuasion believe that baptism—and, for some, repentance and confession—are additional things God requires before He grants salvation.

The problem with this viewpoint is that there are biblical passages that clearly and explicitly declare faith to be the only requirement for salvation. John 3:16, one of the most well-known verses in the Bible, states, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” In Acts 16:30, the Philippian jailer asks the apostle Paul, “What must I do to be saved?” If there was ever an opportunity for Paul to present a four-part formula, this was it. Paul’s response was simple: “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). No baptism, no confession, just faith.

There are literally dozens of verses in the New Testament that attribute salvation to faith/belief with no other requirement mentioned in the context. If baptism, or anything else, is necessary for salvation, all of these verses are wrong, and the Bible contains errors and is therefore no longer worthy of our trust.

An exhaustive study of the New Testament on various requirements for salvation is not necessary. Receiving salvation is not a process or a multi-step formula. Salvation is a finished product, not a recipe. What must we do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and we will be saved.
Gotquestions.com

It's quite amusing, really, how some folks twist themselves into theological knots, declaring that water baptism is a "work" and therefore not essential to salvation—yet in the same breath, they don't seem to have any issue with walking to an altar or kneeling in your pew asking for forgiveness (repentance), which, by their own logic, would also be a work. I mean, if turning away from sin, changing your heart and mind, and realigning your life with God isn't an effort, then what is? The idea that somehow baptism is a step too far, but repentance is perfectly fine, just doesn't add up. It's like saying, "Well, you can change your entire way of living, but don't you dare get in the water!" It's a bit like building half a bridge and expecting to cross the river unscathed. Silly, isn't it?

 

[electedbyHim]

Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" These word are spoken by Jesus do you also deny this?

This is not Biblical Soteriology.

There are many Christians who are not baptised and a plethora more who do not speak in tongues. The idea that these individuals are not saved is deceptive.

A right understanding of Soteriology from a systematic theological standpoint would show that what you teach is false.

Paul calls it another gospel.

 

[electedbyHim]

It's quite amusing, really, how some folks twist themselves into theological knots, declaring that water baptism is a "work" and therefore not essential to salvation—yet in the same breath, they don't seem to have any issue with walking to an altar or kneeling in your pew asking for forgiveness (repentance), which, by their own logic, would also be a work. I mean, if turning away from sin, changing your heart and mind, and realigning your life with God isn't an effort, then what is? The idea that somehow baptism is a step too far, but repentance is perfectly fine, just doesn't add up. It's like saying, "Well, you can change your entire way of living, but don't you dare get in the water!" It's a bit like building half a bridge and expecting to cross the river unscathed. Silly, isn't it?

God chose to elect me to salvation, He gave me faith to believe.

I did nothing to earn it or work for it.

Salvation is all of God and not human will.

Also, those that walk the aisle or kneel at a pew does not justify salvation. Especially in a service where the pastor and clergy use mesmerizing music and repetitious words to play on the emotions and feelings of the people.

Most of these people have been self-deceived, if not all.

Been there, done that.

 

[My Rock]

This is not Biblical Soteriology.

There are many Christians who are not baptised and a plethora more who do not speak in tongues. The idea that these individuals are not saved is deceptive.

A right understanding of Soteriology from a systematic theological standpoint would show that what you teach is false.

Paul calls it another gospel.

We can use Systematic theology and Soteriology here.

From a systematic theology perspective, John 3:5 plays a critical role in the broader theological understanding of salvation, regeneration, and the work of the Holy Spirit. The verse states, "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." In systematic theology, this passage is often examined in relation to doctrines of soteriology (the study of salvation) and pneumatology (the study of the Holy Spirit).

The phrase "born of water" has been variously interpreted, but in many theological traditions, it is understood to refer to the necessity of water baptism as a means of grace and an outward sign of the inward regeneration that occurs through faith in Jesus Christ. This interpretation is consistent with the sacramental view of baptism held by many Christian denominations, where baptism is seen as a crucial step in the process of salvation, symbolizing the washing away of sins and the believer's identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

The second part of the verse, "born of the Spirit," is universally understood to refer to the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, who brings about the new birth and transformation in a believer’s life. This new birth is essential for entering the kingdom of God and is the beginning of the Christian life, marked by a renewed relationship with God, a new identity in Christ, and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

In systematic theology, this verse is also linked to the broader biblical narrative that emphasizes the necessity of both an outward sign (baptism) and an inward reality (spiritual rebirth) in the process of salvation. It is seen as a foundational text for understanding the holistic nature of salvation, where God's grace is administered through both the Word and sacraments, and where the Holy Spirit's transformative work is essential for entering into eternal life.

 

[My Rock]

Because I became a man of the word from the time I accepted Christ, I believe I was already born again at the time of my Spirit baptism (close to a year later). I belonged to God, was born of incorruptible seed, and was on my way to Heaven.

While embracing the Word of God and accepting Christ is crucial to the journey of salvation, the full new birth experience, as outlined in the New Testament (not my words, but God's), encompasses more than just an intellectual or initial acceptance. According to John 3:5 and Acts 2:38, being born again requires both water baptism and the reception of the Holy Spirit. The process of being "born of water and of the Spirit" is not an optional or secondary experience but is essential for entering the kingdom of God. The incorruptible seed of God's Word indeed initiates the transformation, but this seed must come to fruition through obedience to the full gospel, which includes water baptism in the name of Jesus and the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Without these elements, the new birth experience remains incomplete.

Some occasionally make John 3 out to say things like water or Holy Spirit baptism are absolutely necessary unto salvation, and I think they take the passage entirely out of its context when they teach that.

Interpreting John 3:5 within the broader context of the New Testament, it is clear that Jesus was not merely offering a suggestion but was making a definitive statement about the requirements for entering the kingdom of God. Water baptism and Spirit baptism are consistently presented throughout the New Testament as essential components of salvation. For example, in Acts 2:38, Peter explicitly commands repentance, baptism in Jesus’ name for the remission of sins, and the reception of the Holy Spirit. These are not presented as separate or optional steps but as integral parts of the salvation process. To diminish the importance of baptism and the Holy Spirit is to overlook the clear scriptural mandate that Jesus Himself established. The context of John 3 is not limited to the Pharisees or any specific group; it is a universal requirement for all who would enter into the kingdom according to Christ Himself.

I think He was speaking specifically to the Pharisees, since Nicodemus had come from them and on behalf of them, and He knew the Pharisees would need far more than just a verse or two. They were so steeped in religion that they would need a completely new rebirth experience (water baptism) and the Spirit of God teaching them the word of God all over again with new eyes, aided in large part by the Spirit baptism.

While it is true that Jesus was addressing Nicodemus, a Pharisee, in John 3, His words about being born again are universally applicable and not limited to the Pharisees. Nicodemus did not come on behalf of the Pharisees; he came on his own, seeking Jesus in secret by night, likely out of fear of being seen by his fellow Pharisees (John 3:2). Jesus’ teaching about the necessity of being "born of water and of the Spirit" transcends the immediate context and applies to all who seek to enter the kingdom of God. The New Testament consistently emphasizes the need for both water baptism and the infilling of the Holy Spirit for all believers, not just those steeped in religious tradition like the Pharisees. The rebirth experience that Jesus describes is the foundation of Christian life, and it is essential for every believer, regardless of their background or prior religious experience. This teaching is further reinforced throughout the New Testament, demonstrating that the new birth is a universal requirement for salvation (again Scripture not my Words), and not merely a corrective measure for the religiously entrenched.

 

[JLB]

The phrase "born of water" has been variously interpreted, but in many theological traditions, it is understood to refer to the necessity of water baptism as a means of grace and an outward sign of the inward regeneration that occurs through faith in Jesus Christ.

Fortunately we need not to lean on theological traditions or interpretations, because in the next verse, Jesus explained exactly what He meant.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

The context of what Jesus is teaching Nicodemus is about birth;
being born again. He uses natural birth (earthly thing) to teach Nicodemus about spiritual birth (heavenly thing)

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of flesh = Natural Birth
Born of the Spirit = Spiritual Birth


Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water (natural birth) and the Spirit (spiritual birth), he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Born of water = Natural Birth
Born of the Spirit = Spiritual birth



In order to be born again, one must first be born.



JLB

 

[My Rock]

For those who believe that Baptism in Water and Baptism of the Holy Ghost are not a part of the New Birth. I admit I used A.I. for this because easiest way to get ALL these Passages at Once.

Water baptism and Spirit baptism are consistently presented throughout the New Testament as essential components of salvation. show me all relevant passages

Water Baptism​

1. Mark 16:16
   "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
   • Jesus directly links belief and baptism with salvation.
2. John 3:5
   "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
   • This verse emphasizes the necessity of being "born of water" (water baptism) and "of the Spirit."
3. Acts 2:38
   "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
   • Peter commands water baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins, followed by the promise of receiving the Holy Ghost.
4. Acts 8:36-38
   "And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him."
   • The Ethiopian eunuch’s immediate response to believing in Christ was to be baptized.
5. Acts 10:47-48
   "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord."
   • Cornelius and his household were baptized in water after receiving the Holy Ghost.
6. Romans 6:3-4
   "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
   • Paul connects baptism with being united with Christ in His death and resurrection.
7. 1 Peter 3:20-21
   "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
   • Peter explicitly states that baptism saves us, making a comparison to Noah’s salvation through water.

Spirit Baptism​

1. Matthew 3:11
   "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."
   • John the Baptist foretells that Jesus will baptize with the Holy Ghost.
2. John 7:37-39
   "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
   • Jesus promises the Holy Ghost to those who believe.
3. Acts 1:5
   "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."
   • Jesus reiterates the promise of the Holy Ghost to His disciples.
4. Acts 2:4
   "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
   • The initial outpouring of the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost, where the evidence of receiving the Spirit was speaking in tongues.
5. Acts 10:44-46
   "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God."
   • The Gentiles receiving the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, leading to their water baptism.
6. Romans 8:9
   "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
   • Paul emphasizes the necessity of having the Spirit of Christ (the Holy Ghost) to belong to Him.
7. 1 Corinthians 12:13
   "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."
   • Spirit baptism is the means by which believers are incorporated into the body of Christ.

 

[JLB]

For those who believe that Baptism in Water and Baptism of the Holy Ghost are not a part of the New Birth. I admit I used A.I. for this because easiest way to get ALL these Passages at Once.

Water baptism and Spirit baptism are consistently presented throughout the New Testament as essential components of salvation. show me all relevant passages

Water Baptism​

1. Mark 16:16
   "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
   • Jesus directly links belief and baptism with salvation.
2. John 3:5
   "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
   • This verse emphasizes the necessity of being "born of water" (water baptism) and "of the Spirit."
3. Acts 2:38
   "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
   • Peter commands water baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins, followed by the promise of receiving the Holy Ghost.
4. Acts 8:36-38
   "And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him."
   • The Ethiopian eunuch’s immediate response to believing in Christ was to be baptized.
5. Acts 10:47-48
   "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord."
   • Cornelius and his household were baptized in water after receiving the Holy Ghost.
6. Romans 6:3-4
   "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
   • Paul connects baptism with being united with Christ in His death and resurrection.
7. 1 Peter 3:20-21
   "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
   • Peter explicitly states that baptism saves us, making a comparison to Noah’s salvation through water.

Spirit Baptism​

1. Matthew 3:11
   "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."
   • John the Baptist foretells that Jesus will baptize with the Holy Ghost.
2. John 7:37-39
   "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
   • Jesus promises the Holy Ghost to those who believe.
3. Acts 1:5
   "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."
   • Jesus reiterates the promise of the Holy Ghost to His disciples.
4. Acts 2:4
   "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
   • The initial outpouring of the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost, where the evidence of receiving the Spirit was speaking in tongues.
5. Acts 10:44-46
   "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God."
   • The Gentiles receiving the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, leading to their water baptism.
6. Romans 8:9
   "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
   • Paul emphasizes the necessity of having the Spirit of Christ (the Holy Ghost) to belong to Him.
7. 1 Corinthians 12:13
   "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."
   • Spirit baptism is the means by which believers are incorporated into the body of Christ.

Do you understand that there is another baptism, besides water baptism and the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and is the only essential baptism for salvation?

1 Corinthians 12:13
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."


This is not the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.



This is the New Birth.

 

[My Rock]

Fortunately we need not to lean on theological traditions or interpretations, because in the next verse, Jesus explained exactly what He meant.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

The context of what Jesus is teaching Nicodemus is about birth;
being born again. He uses natural birth (earthly thing) to teach Nicodemus about spiritual birth (heavenly thing)

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of flesh = Natural Birth
Born of the Spirit = Spiritual Birth

Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water (natural birth) and the Spirit (spiritual birth), he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Born of water = Natural Birth
Born of the Spirit = Spiritual birth

In order to be born again, one must first be born.

JLB

To suggest that being "born of water" in John 3:5 refers to physical birth from a mother's womb is, frankly, a stretch of the imagination. It implies that Jesus, in a profound discussion with Nicodemus about spiritual rebirth, suddenly decided to state the obvious—that everyone must be born physically to exist, a fact that Nicodemus, and literally every person, already knew. It’s like saying, "To enter the kingdom of God, you must first be alive." Well, of course! That’s not exactly groundbreaking theology.

This interpretation reduces Jesus' teaching to a tautology—an unnecessary statement of the obvious—rather than the deep spiritual truth it clearly is. The context of the conversation is about spiritual transformation, not biology 101. When Jesus speaks of being "born of water and of the Spirit," He's addressing the need for a spiritual rebirth, symbolized by water baptism, and the inward renewal brought by the Holy Spirit. To interpret "water" as amniotic fluid misses the entire point of the passage and dilutes the richness of the spiritual metaphor Jesus is using to describe entering the kingdom of God.

 

[JLB]

Salvation is by faith alone.

No where is that stated in scripture.

We are saved by grace through faith.

Grace and faith.


Grace is the Spirit; the Spirit of grace.

We are born again by the Spirit.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.


No one is saved without the Spirit.
No one is saved without faith.


Both together.



Faith alone is unbiblical.

Thus also faith by itself, (alone) if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17




JLB

 

[My Rock]

1 Corinthians 12:13
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Emphasizes the unity and inclusivity of the body of Christ through the work of the Holy Spirit. This passage underscores that all believers, regardless of their ethnic background ("Jews or Gentiles") or social status ("bond or free"), are baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit. This baptism is not just a symbolic act but a transformative experience that unites believers into a single, cohesive body—the Church—where distinctions of race, class, or status are transcended. Additionally, being made to "drink into one Spirit" signifies the indwelling presence and continual infilling of the Holy Spirit, which sustains and empowers the believer. This shared experience of the Spirit fosters a deep sense of unity and belonging among all members of the Church, highlighting the inclusivity and universal nature of God's salvation plan. In this unity, the diverse gifts of the Spirit work harmoniously, edifying the body and advancing God's Kingdom.

 

[JLB]

Emphasizes the unity and inclusivity of the body of Christ through the work of the Holy Spirit. This passage underscores that all believers, regardless of their ethnic background ("Jews or Gentiles") or social status ("bond or free"), are baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit. This baptism is not just a symbolic act but a transformative experience that unites believers into a single, cohesive body—the Church—where distinctions of race, class, or status are transcended. Additionally, being made to "drink into one Spirit" signifies the indwelling presence and continual infilling of the Holy Spirit, which sustains and empowers the believer. This shared experience of the Spirit fosters a deep sense of unity and belonging among all members of the Church, highlighting the inclusivity and universal nature of God's salvation plan. In this unity, the diverse gifts of the Spirit work harmoniously, edifying the body and advancing God's Kingdom.

Please know and understand that there are three distinct and different baptisms, with three distinct and different baptizers.

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 1 Corinthians 10:1-2


The Spirit is the Baptizer when we are born again by being baptized into Christ, (into Moses) in which we are made to be “in Christ”;
Joined to Him and one spirit with Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17

This is the primary baptism by which we are born again; born of the Spirit.

Again, in this initial baptism the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer.
He baptizes us into Christ.

• For by one Spirit we were all baptized…

When we are baptized with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is the Baptizer.






JLB

 

[RandyK]

1 Corinthians 14:22, “Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.”​

Tongues serve as a visible sign for unbelievers, indicating that someone has been baptized in the Holy Ghost. In a church setting where unbelievers are present, if someone approaches the altar seeking the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, the manifestation of speaking in tongues provides clear evidence of having received it. Without this outward sign, it would be challenging for unbelievers to discern whether the person has truly experienced the infilling of the Holy Spirit. It is an initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4), and its public manifestation can convict and convince those who do not yet believe, showing them the reality of God's work. This aligns with the events at Pentecost, where the disciples spoke in tongues, astonishing and drawing the attention of the multitude, leading to Peter's powerful sermon and the conversion of about three thousand souls (Acts 2:6-41).

Respectfully, I think you're misunderstanding what Paul is saying here. I think he's saying that Tongues was the equivalent, in the OT era, of pagans invading Israel, speaking foreign tongues. Israel had not been in good faith with God, and had acted as "unbelievers," or pagans. Therefore, this kind of "Tongues" was for Hebrews, who acted like unbelievers, who warranted judgment by pagan "Tongues-Speakers."

Crossing over into the NT era, Paul is saying that Tongues remains a sign for pagan unbelievers, who warrant not being spoken to in their own tongue. But Paul is recommending that if you wish to reach them with Faith, then you need to speak in their language--not in Tongues, a foreign language.

If I have this wrong, I'm open to correction....

 

[RandyK]

Without divorcing the discussion from scripture, let me put it to you in a succinct way: Because I became a man of the word from the time I accepted Christ, I believe I was already born again at the time of my Spirit baptism (close to a year later). I belonged to God, was born of incorruptible seed, and was on my way to Heaven. Granted. I would have been far more limited in my walk had I not received the baptism, but I say all that to say this. Some occasionally make John 3 out to say things like water or Holy Spirit baptism are absolutely necessary unto salvation, and I think they take the passage entirely out of its context when they teach that. I think He was speaking specifically to the Pharisees, since Nicodemus had come from them and on behalf of them, and He knew the Pharisees would need far more than just a verse or two. They were so steeped in religion that they would need a completely new rebirth experience (water baptism) and the Spirit of God teaching them the word of God all over again with new eyes, aided in large part by the Spirit baptism.

Your thoughts?

Yes, "baptism now saves you," ie 1 Peter 3.21, refers to water baptism as an ancillary, or an accompanying, frill connected to the actual confession of faith, which saves. Water Baptism is an initiation ceremony into the life of Salvation, necessarily following the decision to follow Christ. So Salvation precedes Water Baptism even though Peter said, "Baptism now saves you." It is an illustration of the inward life of Salvation that one chooses when he chooses to follow Christ and not his own ways.

 

[eddif]

Please know and understand that there are three distinct and different baptisms, with three distinct and different baptizers.

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 1 Corinthians 10:1-2


The Spirit is the Baptizer when we are born again by being baptized into Christ, (into Moses) in which we are made to be “in Christ”;
Joined to Him and one spirit with Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17

This is the primary baptism by which we are born again; born of the Spirit.

Again, in this initial baptism the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer.
He baptizes us into Christ.

• For by one Spirit we were all baptized…

When we are baptized with the Holy Spirit, Jesus is the Baptizer.






JLB

You doing ok JLB
We seem to be facing a pre organized pet box.

Baptism is not a cerimony alone. I agree with the Bible and you.

We are immersed in Repentance. We are immersed in all the oracles about the Father.The Law helps us know our sin. That is a lawful use of the law. The Prophets foretell the Messiah / Jesus. That is during the Law. The blood Sacrafices foreshadow what Jesus did. John the Baptist used the Law, but said believe in the one who comes after me.

Jesus is the only Name for salvation. Faith and Jesus working in us to will and do of his good pleasure. We become immersed in every aspect of Jesus.

Immersed in the Holy Spirit. Breathing into be a living soul, and entering in us after salvation for power to witness.

Do JLB and eddif think just Like? No. Are we without spot or blemish? We miss hitting the mark at times.

One immersion but
The Father
The Son
The Holy Spirit
Teaching all the Commandments contained in the ordnances and gives fulfilled by Jesus. Not the letter of the law but the Spirit of the law,
A lot of this is the way eddif thinks. JLB is free to correct if he pleases.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[JLB]

To suggest that being "born of water" in John 3:5 refers to physical birth from a mother's womb is, frankly, a stretch of the imagination.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6


Just read what Jesus said.


Furthermore John uses this unique phrase again in
1 John 5 to teach that Jesus was born of a virgin.


This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6

Everyone comes (into the world) by water; is born of water.

Only Jesus came by water and blood.


Do you understand what blood John is referring to?




JLB

 

[My Rock]

Respectfully, I think you're misunderstanding what Paul is saying here. I think he's saying that Tongues was the equivalent, in the OT era, of pagans invading Israel, speaking foreign tongues. Israel had not been in good faith with God, and had acted as "unbelievers," or pagans. Therefore, this kind of "Tongues" was for Hebrews, who acted like unbelievers, who warranted judgment by pagan "Tongues-Speakers."

Crossing over into the NT era, Paul is saying that Tongues remains a sign for pagan unbelievers, who warrant not being spoken to in their own tongue. But Paul is recommending that if you wish to reach them with Faith, then you need to speak in their language--not in Tongues, a foreign language.

If I have this wrong, I'm open to correction....

In 1 Corinthians 14:22, Paul writes, “Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not.” This passage underscores that tongues, as a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, serve as a sign for those who do not yet believe. Tongues function as an outward demonstration of an inward reality—the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. At Pentecost, the disciples’ speaking in tongues was a dramatic and visible sign that captured the attention of a diverse crowd, leading to Peter’s sermon and the conversion of thousands (Acts 2:6-41). This sign was pivotal in validating the divine nature of the disciples' experience and opening the way for the gospel message to be received. For unbelievers, the manifestation of tongues serves as a clear and supernatural evidence of God's work, prompting them to reconsider their own understanding and leading them to the truth of Christ.

The interpretation suggesting that tongues in 1 Corinthians 14:22 were equivalent to pagans speaking foreign languages as a form of judgment on Israel and that Paul is advising speaking in native languages to reach unbelievers may be a misunderstanding of the text's context. Paul is addressing the use of spiritual gifts within the church, emphasizing their purpose and proper use. In the New Testament context, tongues are not portrayed as a form of judgment but rather as a spiritual gift meant to edify and serve as a sign for unbelievers. Paul’s directive to speak in a known language when addressing others is not a negation of the value of tongues but a call for clarity and edification in worship and evangelism. The goal is to ensure that all are built up and understand the message being shared. Therefore, while tongues serve as a sign to unbelievers, the focus should be on the edification of the church and the effective communication of the gospel, aligning with the overall purpose of spiritual gifts in the New Testament church.