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Speaking in tongues and the Holy Spirit

The niche belief that “speaking in tongues is evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit and true saving faith” is only held by Oneness Pentecostalism, as far as I know.
Once again, I am not saying you will be lost if you don't speak in tongues. The salvation of a soul is entirely in God's hands. I am simply stating what is written in Scripture. Those in the upper room were all in one accord, seeking the promise of the Father—the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire prophesied by John. How did they know they had received it? Because they saw and heard evidence. What did they see and hear? Speaking in tongues. So, when you earnestly seek God for the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, the initial evidence—not the only evidence—is speaking in tongues.

While Acts 2:37 specifically addresses the direct question of how to be saved, the absolute imperative is to repent and be baptized in water. Now, what isn't clear in some people's minds is what 'the gift of the Holy Ghost' mentioned in response means. I believe it refers both to the Holy Spirit itself and to tongues as the initial evidence—not the only evidence.
 
I haven't kept up with this entire thread, but agree with some previous posts that tongues is not the only sign of receiving. Two verses in Acts place tongues and prophecy together, so there were at least two visible signs in evidence at the time of Spirit baptism. But I do consider your statement above to be a valid argument. I don't believe the Lord ever intended everyone to just take our word for it that we've been baptized in the Holy Spirit. There were clear evidences for it in the NT, and the same should be true today.

In short, I think He did fully intend for there be visible supernatural evidences both then and now, but to say tongues is the only evidence IMO is in error.

Blessings,
- H
This is just personal testimony, so it lacks the weight of biblical argument. But way back in '71 I was with the Jesus' People, and had already received manifestly the gift of the Holy Spirit. I had known the Lord my entire life, but never knew God "more fully," as Apollos experienced it previously.

I was rejoicing in the Lord, testifying to Jesus and enjoying the presence of God. But my compatriots prayed over me, telling me to just start forming words in another language, praying in that "language." Nothing happened supernaturally--was I just supposed to "fake this?"

I went into a back room and asked God if I was lacking this "Tongues?" As I prayed the most beautiful English language came out of my mouth--I'm not that eloquent! I felt as if God was telling me He wants me to learn to speak intelligibly to my friends and acquaintances with supernatural revelation, and not be as others were given to speak in other Tongues. This was my "Tongue" whenever He anointed me.

Well, I certainly didn't go on to always pray with such eloquence, but I did learn to listen to God when I prayed or whenver I testified. I know that anecdotal evidence isn't doctrine, but it is nevertheless what I experienced.

Since I have not really had the Gift of Tongues I began to doubt the degree to which it was authentic. One day I angrily prayed and determined to reject that gift if God did not speak to me from heaven. Ashamed that I was trying to make the "Sign" too hard so that I wouldn't have to believe in Tongues, I asked God to simply give me a sign on earth. Immediately in front of me a firework shot up into the sky and fell back down--a Sign had indeed been given.

Well, the Bible does indicate Tongues are a Gift for some. I'll let the Holy Spirit decide what gifts He wants to distribute to us as individuals. It's His world, and we are His People.
 
Once again, I am not saying you will be lost if you don't speak in tongues.
But that is the only logical conclusion. If someone doesn't speak in tongues then they don't have the Holy Spirit. If they don't have the Holy Spirit then they cannot be saved.
 
But that is the only logical conclusion. If someone doesn't speak in tongues then they don't have the Holy Spirit. If they don't have the Holy Spirit then they cannot be saved.
Speaking truth is more important than speaking gibberish.
 
So your theology teaches that a Christian that does not speak in tongues is really not saved.
Once again, I am not saying you will be lost if you don't speak in tongues. The salvation of a soul is entirely in God's hands. I am simply stating what is written in Scripture. Those in the upper room were all in one accord, seeking the promise of the Father—the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire prophesied by John. How did they know they had received it? Because they saw and heard evidence. What did they see and hear? Speaking in tongues. So, when you earnestly seek God for the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, the initial evidence—not the only evidence—is speaking in tongues.

While Acts 2:37 specifically addresses the direct question of how to be saved, the absolute imperative is to repent and be baptized in water. Now, what isn't clear in some people's minds is what 'the gift of the Holy Ghost' mentioned in response means. I believe it refers both to the Holy Spirit itself and to tongues as the initial evidence—not the only evidence.
Or can a Christian be saved and not have the Holy Spirit?
Romans 8:9, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
 
1 Corinthians 12:29-30, "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

Addresses the diversity of spiritual gifts within the body of Christ, emphasizing that not every believer will have the same role or gift. The church is likened to a body, with each member having a distinct function, and all are necessary for the health and growth of the church. This diversity ensures that the church operates effectively, with apostles, prophets, teachers, miracle workers, those with gifts of healing, and others each contributing uniquely to the mission of the church.
Absolutely true! It's as true that we should focus on our own calling as it is that we should recognize we have different spiritual gifts!
It is important to distinguish between the different types of speaking in tongues mentioned in the New Testament. The Bible teaches that speaking in tongues serves different purposes and contexts. First, there is speaking in tongues as the initial evidence of receiving the Baptism of The Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:1-4, which is a private and personal experience for every believer baptized in the Holy Ghost. This experience is a sign of the New Birth and is distinct from the spiritual gifts described in 1 Corinthians 12.
Walter Martin used to say that God doesn't speak with deformity, but says exactly what He means to say. You're drawing conclusions here that is not explicitly being taught in the Scriptures. Paul doesn't come out and say, "There are different categories of Tongues." It may or may not be true, but he doesn't go to lengths to teach this kind of organization of the Gift of Tongues.

He doesn't say, for example, that "There is a prayer language Tongues," and "There is a prophetic kind of Tongues use." These things have to be "read into" what Paul teaches. His emphasis seems to be on the individuality of giftings, and on prioritizing what is most helpful in reaching others with truth about Christ.
Second, the passage in 1 Corinthians 12 refers to the specific gift of tongues used in a public worship setting. This gift, meant for the edification of the church, occurs during quiet spiritual moments and requires interpretation. Not all believers will possess this particular gift, just as not all are apostles, prophets, or teachers. This public exercise of the gift of tongues, accompanied by interpretation, is different from the personal prayer language experienced by individuals when they receive the Holy Spirit.
I've seen Tongues operate as preliminary to the giving of a Prophecy for many years. And as you say, it seems to be the same people doing this, and not all the people. It excludes some very spiritual people, and not just those sitting on the back pews!
While every believer is encouraged to seek and receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues as a personal experience...
Paul encouraged Tongues to be used. I don't see him encouraging *all Christians* to exercise Tongues as a "Prayer Language!" Very important: we should not oppose supernatural gifts simply because it doesn't happen to be "our Gift," or "our Experience!"
the specific gift of tongues used in church settings for communal edification and requiring interpretation is given according to God’s sovereign will and purpose. This distinction clarifies the different roles of speaking in tongues within the body of Christ, both for individual spiritual growth and for the edification of the church.
Paul is emphasizing the need to focus on the things that minister to others God's Word, and not just enjoy God and His Gifts for our own personal benefit or edification. He was not saying Tongues has to be interpreted, but that if it is to take up time publicly in the assembled church, then it should be ministering to others, which a foreign tongue simply does not do.
it's important to consider what Scripture says about the purpose and use of tongues. In 1 Corinthians 14:2, Paul writes, "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." This suggests that there is a personal, devotional aspect to speaking in tongues, where the individual is communicating directly with God in a way that transcends human language.
Yes, Tongues is supernatural and indicates that supernatural Gifts are connected to personal revelation from God. Whether a foreign Tongue or an interpreted Tongue it should connect us directly to God.
The gift of tongues serves multiple purposes. It is a sign of the infilling of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4), a means of edifying the believer (1 Corinthians 14:4),
I think Tongues came initially to indicate that the promised Gift of the Spirit had come, to essentially substitute for the loss of Jesus' personal presence among us. But I don't see Tongues being taught as THE Sign that all believers should experience to indicate they had received the Holy Spirit.

My wife had received the Holy Spirit before she was told she needed to speak in Tongues to be "Baptized in the Spirit." Being a brand new Christian out of paganism at the time, she was confused by the claim, since she had already had a glorious Salvation experience, replete with recognition of God's presence with her through the Holy Spirit.

She does speak in Tongues to this day, but does not feel there is any special order with Tongues to receive the Holy Spirit. His coming is in itself evidence of the "Spirit Baptism." On the day of Pentecost, God obviously wanted to make a more public display.
and a sign for unbelievers (1 Corinthians 14:22).
The "Sign for unbelievers" was being suggested by Paul as a kind of "judgment" against our resistance to the Holy Spirit. Israel had been judged in their idolatry by experiencing an invasion by foreign-speaking pagans. Similarly, we've all been taken "captive" by Christ, and now sometimes receive a foreign tongue to lead us to depend on the Lord instead of on our own devices.
The idea of a "prayer language" aligns with Paul's teaching that speaking in tongues can be part of personal prayer and worship, where the believer's spirit communicates with God beyond the limitations of their understanding.
It certainly can be a personal "Prayer Language." I don't think it is taught, biblically, as the universal evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit by all Christians. Nor is it taught, I think, that all Christians should use Tongues as a "Prayer Language."
Paul also emphasizes that this gift should be used appropriately within the congregation. He advises that in a public setting (Times of quiet Spiritual reflection), if tongues are spoken, there should be interpretation so that the church may be edified (1 Corinthians 14:27-28). This maintains the balance between personal edification and corporate order.
Yes. I do believe in tongues--just the appropriate use of them, to not take up time that could be better spent speaking in the native tongue to others.
 
(Deep “Well)

12 ? Oh well

I thought Joel said Sons and Daughters

How many disciples of the 12 were female?

I think there were 120? disciples in the upper room at Pentecost .

To have Sons and Daughters you need beyond 12.

I was not there

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Do you guys have the Gift of Speaking in Tongues?
There is to be a rapture. There is to be no rapture. Believers who die go immediately to be with the Lord. Believers who die will be raised from the dead to be with the Lord.
There is to be a tribulation of believers. The tribulation has already occurred. The kingdom of God will be established on earth. The kingdom of God is in heaven only.
I could go on and on with all the different ideas out there about the kingdom of God.
Which one of the many, many different teaching of prophecy is correct.
IOW, which group has been given the gift of prophecy?
 
But I don't see Tongues being taught as THE Sign that all believers should experience
Acts 2:1-4
1. They ALL spoke in Tongues
2. If it's not an experience for ALL believers than why did ALL receive?
3. If your statement is to be true, since there were only 15 different languages or dialects at Pentecost, ALL wouldn't have needed to be speaking in Tongues.
4. Speaking in tongues was not limited to just a few but was an experience for all those who were filled with the Holy Spirit in the Upper room.
5. Speaking in Tongues is a Gift of the Spirit, now why wouldn't ALL True Christians want this?
 
There is to be a rapture. There is to be no rapture. Believers who die go immediately to be with the Lord. Believers who die will be raised from the dead to be with the Lord.
There is to be a tribulation of believers. The tribulation has already occurred. The kingdom of God will be established on earth. The kingdom of God is in heaven only.
I could go on and on with all the different ideas out there about the kingdom of God.
Which one of the many, many different teaching of prophecy is correct.
IOW, which group has been given the gift of prophecy?
Nothing to do with answering my question?
 
The twelve were baptized by the Holy Spirit when the Spirit entered the room, and a sound was heard from heaven, and by a rushing mighty wind that filled the entire house. They were completely immersed by the Spirit.
As the result, they were able to speak the languages of all those who had come to Jerusalem to worship. In addition, they prophesied of Jesus and the coming of the kingdom of God in truth, not lies.

The problem today, as I see it, is that people claim to have the Holy Spirit teaching and leading them into all truth. Even the same ones who disagree with each other make the same claim. It’s hysterical.
Yes and something doesn't seem right if so many people are disagreeing with each other. I wonder what is going on.
 
Yes and something doesn't seem right if so many people are disagreeing with each other. I wonder what is going on.

What’s going on is that people are being deceived into thinking the miraculous gifts of the Spirit are manifest today as they were in the first century as a means of the confirmation of truth.

The gifts were referred to as a measure of the gift of Christ. And he was to be with them in that way until the end of the age. Which age ended with the destruction of the Temple in AD 70.
 
Once again, I am not saying you will be lost if you don't speak in tongues. The salvation of a soul is entirely in God's hands. I am simply stating what is written in Scripture. Those in the upper room were all in one accord, seeking the promise of the Father—the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire prophesied by John. How did they know they had received it? Because they saw and heard evidence. What did they see and hear? Speaking in tongues. So, when you earnestly seek God for the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, the initial evidence—not the only evidence—is speaking in tongues.

While Acts 2:37 specifically addresses the direct question of how to be saved, the absolute imperative is to repent and be baptized in water. Now, what isn't clear in some people's minds is what 'the gift of the Holy Ghost' mentioned in response means. I believe it refers both to the Holy Spirit itself and to tongues as the initial evidence—not the only evidence.

Romans 8:9, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
So, those that do not speak tongues have the Holy Spirit?

Is that correct in your belief?
 
Remembering the scripture... Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

Forbid Not - Do any bible scholars know what this means?
 
So, those that do not speak tongues have the Holy Spirit?

Is that correct in your belief?
Repentance and water baptism are foundational steps in the Christian faith. In Acts 2:38, Peter instructs the crowd, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Repentance involves turning away from sin and turning towards God, while water baptism symbolizes the washing away of sins and identifies the believer with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Romans 6:3-4). After these steps, the believer is cleansed and positioned to receive the promise of the Holy Ghost.

However, the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is described as a separate and subsequent experience that empowers the believer for service and holy living. In Acts 1:8, Jesus tells His disciples, "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me." This power is distinct from the initial repentance and water baptism and is characterized by a supernatural infilling of the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17 also illustrates this distinction when the Samaritans believed and were baptized in water, but it was only after Peter and John prayed for them that they received the Holy Ghost, indicating a separate experience.

This separation is further highlighted in Acts 19:1-6, where Paul encounters believers in Ephesus who had undergone John's baptism of repentance. He explains that they must also believe in Jesus Christ, and after they are baptized in His name, Paul lays hands on them, and they receive the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues and prophesying. This pattern shows that while repentance and water baptism are essential for remission of sins and the cleansing of the believer, the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a distinct and empowering experience that completes the process of spiritual renewal and equips the believer to live an overcoming life.
 
Remembering the scripture... Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

Forbid Not - Do any bible scholars know what this means?
You will get different responses on this depending on ones stance with the sign gifts.



If one is a cessationist these two commands in the present tense are interpreted as apropos to the time in which Paul wrote when these gifts were still in effect, but would not be applicable now. For a continuationist these commands are interpreted as affirmation that these gifts are to be practiced. (And as they say "ne'er the twain shall meet" at least not in this lifetime!"

Therefore - Term of conclusion. In this case Paul's final concluding thoughts on the question of spiritual gifts in the church at Corinth.

My brethren (adelphos) - Paul's summation begins with this affectionate manner of addressing the Corinthians who he has just sternly censured, in a manner of speaking.

Paul's commands remind us of his somewhat similar commands to the church at Thessalonica -

1 Thessalonians 5:19; 20+ Do not quench (sbennumi in present imperative with a negative see our need to depend on the Holy Spirit to obey) the Spirit; do not despise (exoutheneo in present imperative with a negative) prophetic utterances (propheteia)

Desire earnestly to prophesy (propheteuo) - First the positive command. Desire earnestly is third command in present imperative using this verb (zeloo) in the section on spiritual gifts.

Utley - Prophesying in 1 Corinthians is basically communicating the gospel (cf. 1 Cor 14:24).

And do not forbid to speak (laleo) in tongues - - Then the negative command. Do not forbid is present imperative with a negative which means some were forbidding others to speak in tongues.

Robertson and Plummer - A vast difference; the one gift to be greatly longed for, the other only not forbidden (1 Corinthians 14 Commentary)

Pulpit Commentary - The power to preach is to be desired; all that can be said of glossolaly is that it is not to be absolutely forbidden so long as the conditions which St. Paul has laid down for its regulation are observed. But glossolaly is hardly possible under conditions of order, decorum, and self suppression, and we are not surprised that we hear no more of it in the Church, but only in the wild excitement of fanatical sects. The suppression, however, of the startling manifestation by no means necessarily involves any enfeeblement of the inspiring conviction from which it sprang. The brawling torrent which "foams its madness off" is lost in the calm and majestic flow of the deep river. (1 Corinthians 14 Commentary)
1Corinthians 14:39 Therefore, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.

do not forbid … tongues. Legitimate languages were limited in purpose and in duration, but as long as it was still active in the early church, it was not to be hindered. But prophecy was the most desirable gift to be exercised because of its ability to edify, exhort, and comfort with the truth (1Co_14:3).

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy,.... The apostle now draws to a conclusion, and reassumes the exhortation he gave in the beginning of the chapter, pressing the members of this church to desire the gift of prophecy, that being the most eligible and preferable to others, particularly to speaking with tongues, since it was the most useful and edifying, as he abundantly proves:

and forbid not to speak with tongues; such as have that gift, and are desirous of exercising it, provided they observe the rules prescribed, and have an interpreter; this he adds to promote love, and prevent dissension and discord.

Summary Exhortation​

Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But let all things be done properly and in an orderly manner. (14:39–40)

Paul concludes the chapter with a summary exhortation for the Corinthians to hold prophecy in the superior position in their services, but not to despise or reject legitimate speaking in tongues. And whatever they did in the Lord’s name should be done in the right way.

In their assemblies they were collectively to desire earnestly [second person plural] to prophesy, because prophecy is the great edifier, the great instructor and teacher. Prophecy is so important because edification is so important. Again, as the verb form proves, Paul is not suggesting that individuals seek the gift of prophecy (see comments in chap. 37 on 14:1).

But, although secondary to prophecy, legitimate tongues that are legitimately exercised should also be recognized as of the Lord, and not ridiculed or forbidden. Do not forbid is also in the plural and does not advocate individual seeking of tongues, but refers to the church as a group allowing the proper gifts to be exercised. Tongues was a limited gift, both in purpose and in duration, but it was the Lord’s gift, and, as long as it was active, was not to be despised or hindered.

Right revelation should be obeyed in the right way, and right gifts should be exercised in the right way. The basic meaning of euschēmonōs (properly) is gracefully, becomingly, harmoniously, beautifully. Orderly has the meaning of “in turn” or “one at a time” (cf. v. 27). God is a God of beauty and harmony, of propriety and order, and all things that His children do should reflect those divine characteristics.[1]

[1] John F. MacArthur Jr., 1 Corinthians, MacArthur New Testament Commentary (Chicago: Moody Press, 1984), 394–395.
 
Repentance and water baptism are foundational steps in the Christian faith. In Acts 2:38, Peter instructs the crowd, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Repentance involves turning away from sin and turning towards God, while water baptism symbolizes the washing away of sins and identifies the believer with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Romans 6:3-4). After these steps, the believer is cleansed and positioned to receive the promise of the Holy Ghost.

However, the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is described as a separate and subsequent experience that empowers the believer for service and holy living. In Acts 1:8, Jesus tells His disciples, "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me." This power is distinct from the initial repentance and water baptism and is characterized by a supernatural infilling of the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17 also illustrates this distinction when the Samaritans believed and were baptized in water, but it was only after Peter and John prayed for them that they received the Holy Ghost, indicating a separate experience.

This separation is further highlighted in Acts 19:1-6, where Paul encounters believers in Ephesus who had undergone John's baptism of repentance. He explains that they must also believe in Jesus Christ, and after they are baptized in His name, Paul lays hands on them, and they receive the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues and prophesying. This pattern shows that while repentance and water baptism are essential for remission of sins and the cleansing of the believer, the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a distinct and empowering experience that completes the process of spiritual renewal and equips the believer to live an overcoming life.
The Bible does not teach a seperate baptism of Holy Spirit.

Although, I have met many who believe that, and will let you know how spiritual they are and know more about God than the common Christian.
 
Remembering the scripture... Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

Forbid Not - Do any bible scholars know what this means?
Speaking in tongues serves as the gateway to the other gifts of the Spirit, signifying that the believer has received the fullness of the Holy Ghost and is now empowered to operate in the diverse gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12. Notably, in Acts 2:1-40, the only gift explicitly mentioned is speaking in tongues, as this was the initial evidence that marked the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. At this early stage, the other gifts of the Spirit were not yet fully understood or known by the believers because they were just beginning to learn about the work and presence of the Holy Ghost. This initial manifestation through tongues set the precedent for the later development and recognition of the other spiritual gifts within the church, as the believers grew in their understanding of the Spirit’s diverse operations.

1 Corinthians 14:39, which states, "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues," highlights the importance of not neglecting any of the Spirit's manifestations, including tongues. The emphasis on prophecy in this verse does not negate the significance of tongues; rather, it shows the complementary nature of the gifts within the body of Christ. The practice of speaking in tongues as an initial sign of the Spirit's indwelling aligns with the scriptural pattern, where this experience often precedes and opens the way for the operation of other spiritual gifts.

The reception of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking in tongues, is foundational for the activation and proper functioning of the other gifts of the Spirit. This sequence ensures that the believer is fully immersed in the Spirit's power, enabling them to operate in gifts like prophecy, healing, and discernment with the assurance that they are under the guidance of the Holy Ghost. In this way, speaking in tongues is not just an isolated experience but an integral part of the Spirit-filled life that leads to the full expression of the spiritual gifts within the church.
 
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