Speaking in tongues and the Holy Spirit

[hawkman]

Frankly speaking, I wouldn't trust wiki on this one.

But you would trust the Holy Spirit no doubt .

 

[RandyK]

Acts 2:4 and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

all. The apostles and the 120. Cf. Joe_2:28-32.

"All" as in "all in a room," or "all in the congregation." But certainly not "all Christians in all times and in all places under all circumstances! The Day of Pentecost seems focused upon the earth-shaking event of the coming of the Holy Spirit to confirm Eternal Salvation for believers and to equip them with the power to witness to the resurrected Christ.

The ones asked to wait in Jerusalem for this initial outpouring were the Apostles, who had been given unique gifts of apostleship and healiing. They did not represent "all."

"Are all apostles?" This is a rhetorical question, demanding that we answer with a "No!"

 

[Hopeful 2]

Seems convoluted and backwards to me, especially requiring an interpreter, as being a tool to further the purpose of God, in comparison to the original purpose.
What is the purpose ?

The gift of tongues the disciples used on the day of Pentecost was the languages of those visitors present at Jerusalem.
I am sure the ones who were listening to their own languages were the interpreters , who then spoke in the Hebrew language to the disciples on what they heard.
The purpose was to impress upon everybody in Jerusalem that something magnificent had happened, and it was all because of Jesus.

The personal gift of tongues that is given to the truly repentant and washed, is the voice of the Spirit speaking with God. The speaker may never know what the Spirit was saying.
Its purpose is the edification of the speaker/prayer.

Tongues in a group setting must be without unbelievers in attendance.
Otherwise, in a closed group setting, if one speaks in tongues, an interpreter will say what was on the Spirit's mind.
That message may be prophesy, or a warning, or something special for an individual, or for the growth of all present at the time.
Its purpose is the edification of the body of believers.

 

[Hopeful 2]

But you would trust the Holy Spirit no doubt .

No doubt.
If He tells my "Allah" is more than a false God, I won't get upset at the word's usage.

 

[electedbyHim]

The gift of tongues, both in the early Church and today, is often described as the supernatural ability to speak in languages unknown to the speaker. On the Day of Pentecost, the apostles spoke in various known languages, enabling the diverse crowd in Jerusalem to hear "the wonderful works of God" in their own tongues (Acts 2:6-11). These languages were familiar to the listeners but unknown to the speakers, emphasizing the universal reach of the gospel message.

In contemporary times, those who receive the gift of tongues describe speaking in an unlearned language, which may be an earthly language or an unknown heavenly language. The specific dialects or languages spoken can vary widely, reflecting the diversity of God’s creation. Some believers report speaking in languages that resemble ancient or modern languages from different parts of the world, while others describe their tongues as heavenly languages that transcend earthly dialects, as suggested in 1 Corinthians 13:1, where Paul speaks of "tongues of men and of angels."

Despite the differences in dialects or languages, the essence of the gift remains consistent: it serves as a sign of the Holy Spirit's presence and power in a believer’s life (Mark 16:17). Whether on this continent or the other side of the planet, now or 2,000 years ago, the purpose of tongues is to glorify God, edify the Church (1 Corinthians 14:4), and sometimes serve as a miraculous sign to unbelievers (1 Corinthians 14:22). The specific languages may differ, but the spiritual significance remains the same, demonstrating the continuity of God's work across time and geography.

Paul was using sarcasm.

1 Corinthians 14:4 One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.

a tongue. Again (as in 1Co_14:2), Paul uses the singular to refer to the pagan counterfeit gibberish and sarcastically (cf. 1Co_14:16; 1Co_4:8-10 for other sarcasm) marks its selfishness as some kind of self-edification. This illicit building up of self comes from pride-induced emotion which only produces more pride.

edifies the church. See note on 1Co_12:7.

I have nothing against any of my brothers in Christ who believe in tongue speaking. In all the years that I have lived amongst Pentecostal/charismatics, I have never witnessed it done in a Biblical way.

Many of my brothers in Christ think I am a heretic because I believe in the Doctrines of Grace, we all have different convictions.

You have woman speaking in tongues and Paul forbids that (1 Corinthians 14:34) and probably the biggest is that tongues were for a sign to unbelieving Jews (1 Corinthians 14:21-22) .

1 Corinthians 14 has a set of rules when speaking in tongues. many of those rules are broken and this shows that those who claim they have the gift are counterfeiting the gift.

I have been told that I do not have the Holy Spirit, probably not saved and called a heretic because I do not believe that the sign gifts are for today.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The gift of tongues, both in the early Church and today, is often described as the supernatural ability to speak in languages unknown to the speaker.

The apostles were given the gift of a language unknown to them for the purpose of being dispersed to foreign lands where the language was native, so as give the gospel of Christ.
The fact that the language was at one time unknown to an apostle would not register at all with a people who had no clue who they were prior.
The purpose 2000 years ago was to give the good news far afield .
That is not consistent with what is being described as the purpose today I'm hearing here.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The gift of tongues the disciples used on the day of Pentecost was the languages of those visitors present at Jerusalem.
I am sure the ones who were listening to their own languages were the interpreters , who then spoke in the Hebrew language to the disciples on what they heard.

You seem to believe that this great gift only went so far and that the apostles had no idea of what they were saying in the language they had been gifted ?
You don't think God was able to impart understanding along with the vocalization to them as well ?
That sounds backwards in terms of The God that had no problem imparting the ability to raise the dead to these same disciples.

 

[hawkman]

Tongues in a group setting must be without unbelievers in attendance.

But A message given out in tongues and the interpretation of the message is a sign to the unbelievers , so no reason to exclude them .

22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Otherwise, in a closed group setting, if one speaks in tongues, an interpreter will say what was on the Spirit's mind.
That message may be prophesy, or a warning, or something special for an individual, or for the growth of all present at the time.
Its purpose is the edification of the body of believers.

Yes , there is at least a two fold purpose for a message given out in tongues , a sign to unbelievers and a message to the congregation from the Holy Spirit .

 

[eddif]

Exactly. More than that, the wording is pretty clear: receiving the Holy Spirit was based on repentance. (It is debatable as to the necessity of baptism for this particular aspect and in this context as it isn't necessary for salvation, but is a public profession of faith in Christ.) There is no mention of additional prayer or seeking the Holy Spirit and no mention of anyone else speaking in tongues.

Well let’s talk about necessary.

Jesus said roughly:
Go into all the world
Baptizing
Teaching
But
You need power to witness.
Not a need for the disciples salvation, but necessary that others would be saved. Spiritual tool set.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[My Rock]

"All" as in "all in a room," or "all in the congregation."

The term "all" in Acts 2:1-4 indeed refers to those present in the Upper Room during the Day of Pentecost. This gathering represents the unity and readiness of the early Church to receive the promised Holy Spirit (Luke 24:49). The experience of "all" speaking in tongues emphasizes that the gift of the Holy Spirit was not reserved for a select few but was available to every believer present. This event set a precedent for the outpouring of the Spirit, illustrating that when believers come together earnestly asking God for the Baptism of The Holy Ghost, they can expect to receive the same infilling and empowerment, with tongues as the initial evidence.

But certainly not "all Christians in all times and in all places under all circumstances!

While it’s true that the specific event of Pentecost involved a particular group of believers in a specific place and time, the biblical pattern extend beyond that moment. Acts 2:39 declares that "the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (This means exactly that as many as God will call can have this Gift) This suggests that the experience of receiving the Holy Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues, is not limited to the early Church but is intended for all believers across all times and places. This demonstrates the continuity of God’s promise through generations, affirming that what happened at Pentecost is a model for all believers who seek the fullness of the Spirit.

 

[electedbyHim]

The term "all" in Acts 2:1-4 indeed refers to those present in the Upper Room during the Day of Pentecost. This gathering represents the unity and readiness of the early Church to receive the promised Holy Spirit (Luke 24:49). The experience of "all" speaking in tongues emphasizes that the gift of the Holy Spirit was not reserved for a select few but was available to every believer present. This event set a precedent for the outpouring of the Spirit, illustrating that when believers come together earnestly asking God for the Baptism of The Holy Ghost, they can expect to receive the same infilling and empowerment, with tongues as the initial evidence.

While it’s true that the specific event of Pentecost involved a particular group of believers in a specific place and time, the biblical pattern extend beyond that moment. Acts 2:39 declares that "the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (This means exactly that as many as God will call can have this Gift) This suggests that the experience of receiving the Holy Spirit, evidenced by speaking in tongues, is not limited to the early Church but is intended for all believers across all times and places. This demonstrates the continuity of God’s promise through generations, affirming that what happened at Pentecost is a model for all believers who seek the fullness of the Spirit.

So, if a Christian does not speak in tongues, they are really not regenerated?

Is that correct?

 

[My Rock]

I am sure the ones who were listening to their own languages were the interpreters , who then spoke in the Hebrew language to the disciples on what they heard.

The idea that those who heard the disciples speaking in their own languages acted as interpreters and then relayed the message back to the disciples in Hebrew doesn't align with the account in Acts 2. The event described was not a one-on-one communication where interpretation was needed.

 

[Free]

Well let’s talk about necessary.

Jesus said roughly:
Go into all the world
Baptizing
Teaching
But
You need power to witness.
Not a need for the disciples salvation, but necessary that others would be saved. Spiritual tool set.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Sure. I don’t see how this addresses my post though.

 

[My Rock]

So, if a Christian does not speak in tongues, they are really not regenerated?
Is that correct?

Regeneration, or the new birth, involves a process of faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, water baptism in His name, and receiving the Holy Spirit (John 3:5; Acts 2:38). Speaking in tongues is a sign that someone has received the Spirit, but it is not the sole measure of one's salvation or relationship with God. The new birth experience includes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and tongues serve as a confirmation of this experience.

Oneness Pentecostal teaching does not claim that someone who has not yet spoken in tongues is completely without the grace of God or that they have no relationship with Him. Instead, it encourages all believers to seek the fullness of the Spirit, which includes the experience of speaking in tongues, as part of their spiritual journey. The focus is on seeking a deeper experience with God, in line with the biblical pattern, rather than making definitive judgments about someone's spiritual state based solely on the presence or absence of this particular manifestation.

 

[electedbyHim]

Regeneration, or the new birth, involves a process of faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, water baptism in His name, and receiving the Holy Spirit (John 3:5; Acts 2:38). Speaking in tongues is a sign that someone has received the Spirit, but it is not the sole measure of one's salvation or relationship with God. The new birth experience includes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and tongues serve as a confirmation of this experience.

Oneness Pentecostal teaching does not claim that someone who has not yet spoken in tongues is completely without the grace of God or that they have no relationship with Him. Instead, it encourages all believers to seek the fullness of the Spirit, which includes the experience of speaking in tongues, as part of their spiritual journey. The focus is on seeking a deeper experience with God, in line with the biblical pattern, rather than making definitive judgments about someone's spiritual state based solely on the presence or absence of this particular manifestation.

A solid yes or no would would be appreciated.

 

[My Rock]

A solid yes or no would would be appreciated.

Sorry I got carried away.

 

[My Rock]

The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is seen as crucial for living a holy and overcoming Christian life. Jesus, in Luke 24:49, instructed His disciples to "wait for the promise of the Father," saying, "But tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." This power (to witness and to do miracles) didn't come from Repentance or Baptism in water but from the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, which they knew they received because they spoke in Tongues. This directive highlights the necessity of the Holy Spirit's empowerment for effective Christian living and witness.

Without the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, living a truly victorious and holy life can be extremely challenging. Repentance and water baptism are foundational, marking the beginning of a believer's journey with Christ, but the Holy Spirit's infilling brings a deeper dimension of spiritual strength and guidance. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost provides believers with divine power to overcome personal struggles, resist temptation, and grow in spiritual maturity.

The transformative power of the Holy Spirit equips believers to live in alignment with God's will, bear spiritual fruit, and exercise spiritual gifts. It empowers them to live above their natural inclinations and to walk in victory over sin and adversity. Without this empowerment, Christians might struggle to maintain the spiritual fervor and consistency necessary for a holy life. The Spirit’s guidance is essential for making daily decisions in accordance with God's Word, cultivating Christlike character, and fulfilling the call to witness effectively.

The Holy Spirit provides the strength and boldness needed to face trials and challenges. In Acts 1:8, Jesus promised that "ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you," which indicates that the Spirit’s power is essential for overcoming the obstacles and spiritual battles encountered in the Christian life. The experience of being baptized in the Holy Ghost is thus not just a supplementary aspect of the Christian walk but a critical component for fully realizing the power and presence of God in one's life.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Speaking in tongues is a sign that someone has received the Spirit, but it is not the sole measure of one's salvation or relationship with God. The new birth experience includes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and tongues serve as a confirmation of this experience.

For me the sound of a singing soul uplifting and comforting of others in need, in Christ's name, will always be infinitely more confirming than indiscernible mumbling as to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and be of much greater value.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You seem to believe that this great gift only went so far and that the apostles had no idea of what they were saying in the language they had been gifted ?

It isn't written that they knew, or didn't know, what they were hearing from the Spirit now within them.

You don't think God was able to impart understanding along with the vocalization to them as well ?

Sure I do.

That sounds backwards in terms of The God that had no problem imparting the ability to raise the dead to these same disciples.

Don't you think that those "devout Jewish men" visiting Jerusalem (Acts 2:5), spoke Hebrew ?
Don't you think the disciples did too ?
Those devout men spoke amongst themselves about what they were hearing, (Acts 2:6-12), so undoubtedly, the disciples heard their reports of what was said.
As nothing is written regarding your POV, perhaps God did give the disciples the gift of interpretation; in this case, of foreign languages.
That gift of interpretation would be different from the gift of interpretation of prayer tongues.

 

[Hopeful 2]

But A message given out in tongues and the interpretation of the message is a sign to the unbelievers , so no reason to exclude them .
22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

I was thinking of the next verse..."23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?"
That warning, that I figured precluded speaking in tongues in front of unbelievers, may have actually been an exhortation not to all speak in tongues at the same time in front of unbelievers.
That happened to me once when I visited a church here in Phoenix.
Even being a believer, I was freaked out by all the yelling and screaming.
I wanted to run !
There were no interpreters there.

Yes , there is at least a two fold purpose for a message given out in tongues , a sign to unbelievers and a message to the congregation from the Holy Spirit .

It could be just one, or the other, of your offerings here.
We don't speak in tongues in front of visitors.
(It might be different if we had someone with the gift of interpretation.)
I don't want a recipient of the gift of tongues to have a "pattern" to emulate.
It must be from God.