'Speaking in Tongues', true vs false.

[JLB]

Do you realize that anyone can read your thread above and know that what I said was true? Therefore, who cares that those were my words? The meaning that is conveyed by words is what is important.
TD

Which is why I asked you to copy and paste the words you are referring.

 

[tdidymas]

Please copy and paste the post where I said why you claim.

Calling the Holy Spirit the Devil is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

It’s exactly what the Pharisee’s did to Jesus.

You said this in response to my post about claiming "blasphemy" was problematic. It was as if you misunderstood my meaning, and started accusing me of doing that, such as:

If you call the Holy Spirit, the Devil, then you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

You said this in response to me saying that modern tongues was a fleshly phenomenon. How can you then claim that you are not accusing me of that, seeing that you interpret my word "fleshly" as "devil"? Can you see this?
TD

 

[tdidymas]

More opinion that conflicts with scripture.


Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
1 Corinthians 13:1



JLB

You have the burden to prove how my opinion is conflicting with scripture. I showed how modern tongues is in conflict with scripture.
TD

 

[tdidymas]

Which is why I asked you to copy and paste the words you are referring.

Pls see the next post.
TD

 

[JLB]

You said this in response to my post about claiming "blasphemy" was problematic. It was as if you misunderstood my meaning, and started accusing me of doing that, such as:

Yes I made the point of pointing out that the Pharisees were warned about blaspheming the Holy Spirit.


So what’s your point?



JLB

 

[JLB]

You said this in response to me saying that modern tongues was a fleshly phenomenon. How can you then claim that you are not accusing me of that, seeing that you interpret my word "fleshly" as "devil"? Can you see this?
TD

I didn’t interpret anything.

I made a biblical statement.


If you call the Holy Spirit, the Devil, then you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

 

[tdidymas]

Research?

Do you have the baptism with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues?


JLB

Your words are typical Pentecostal/Charismatic jargon used to justify their traditional practice of glossolalia. What if I told you that I've had the same experience, but acknowledge that it conflicts with what scripture teaches and is not what Pentecostals and Charismatics claim that it is? Would you then be more open to what I'm saying? Or would you write me off as apostate?
TD

 

[JLB]

You have the burden to prove how my opinion is conflicting with scripture. I showed how modern tongues is in conflict with scripture.
TD

I have no burden of proof for anything.

You stated your opinion, like most people you don’t know what their talking about because the have never received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues.

Biblical Example —

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Acts 10:44-46



JLB

 

[tdidymas]

Yes I made the point of pointing out that the Pharisees were warned about blaspheming the Holy Spirit.


So what’s your point?



JLB

When something is beaten into the ground, no one cares about it any more.
TD

 

[JLB]

Your words are typical Pentecostal/Charismatic jargon used to justify their traditional practice of glossolalia. What if I told you that I've had the same experience, but acknowledge that it conflicts with what scripture teaches and is not what Pentecostals and Charismatics claim that it is? Would you then be more open to what I'm saying? Or would you write me off as apostate?
TD

Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?

 

[JLB]

When something is beaten into the ground, no one cares about it any more.
TD

So why do you keep it going.

 

[JLB]

Your words are typical Pentecostal/Charismatic jargon used to justify their traditional practice of glossolalia.

The standard experience for Christians is to receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence that is seen and heard.


Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?




JLB

 

[tdidymas]

I have no burden of proof for anything.

You stated your opinion, like most people you don’t know what their talking about because the have never received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues.

Biblical Example —

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Acts 10:44-46



JLB

How did they know they were magnifying God, unless they understood the languages? Perhaps one says some spoke in tongues and others magnified God in Greek or Aramaic, or they all spoke in tongues and then magnified God in Greek or Aramaic. Any way you look at it, there requires an interpretation about what happened because we don't have a video of it, so it will be speculated based on the bias of the person interpreting it.

Quoting one verse of scripture like this and assuming that I would agree with your assumptions about it won't get us down the road of agreement. We have to look at the scripture as a whole. When the Bible speaks of something several times, and only the first time has certain details, the writer is assuming that the reader will understand that the details given on the first event will be the precedent for detail on subsequent events. In other words, the form and function of tongues did not change from Acts 2 to Acts 10, and didn't change from Acts 10 to 1 Cor. 14.

What they spoke then was languages that someone understood. It is only when we get to 1 Cor. 14 that the idea of an unknown language is introduced, and that was because of the misuse of the Corinthians. The fact that those languages were unknown was due to some people using those gifts for the wrong purpose. It was not because they spoke gibberish as is done today.

So then, what is your agenda? What are you trying to do with this conversation? Are you trying to convince me that your practice is of God, and is Biblical? (if so, you're failing miserably). Are you trying to just win an argument? (if so, that's quite immature). Are you trying to add value to the conversation? (not much). What else could you be trying to accomplish here? If you are trying to accomplish anything at all, then you do indeed have a burden of proof.

So at this point, it begs the question, what are you trying to do here?
TD

 

[tdidymas]

So why do you keep it going.

I thought this was about blasphemy. You didn't get the point, so I'm just saying I don't care about that any more.
TD

 

[tdidymas]

The standard experience for Christians is to receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence that is seen and heard.


Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?




JLB

Well, the jargon you use here is the bias you believe in. You quote verses of scripture (in your words) based on what you learned from the Pent./Char. traditions. If I told you that I have the Holy Spirit, would you believe me? Or do you insist that I use the same jargon you use in the way that you use it? And if I say I have the Holy Spirit, what would be the basis for you believing what I say or not believing it?
TD

 

[tdidymas]

I didn’t interpret anything.

I made a biblical statement.


If you call the Holy Spirit, the Devil, then you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Well, then, what's your point? How is it relevant to the conversation?
TD

 

[Hopeful]

What they spoke then was languages that someone understood. It is only when we get to 1 Cor. 14 that the idea of an unknown language is introduced, and that was because of the misuse of the Corinthians. The fact that those languages were unknown was due to some people using those gifts for the wrong purpose. It was not because they spoke gibberish as is done today.

Actually, it is also referenced in Rom 8:26 too.

 

[humble soul]

My brother is a Pentecostal. One phone conversation I had with him 5 years ago, he said "I've just learnt to speak in tongues. Here , I will do it for you now."
He proceeded to babble in a language I've never heard before. It was kind of disturbing. I didn't know what to think. It sounded demonic tbh.
But what he also told me was that there was a competitive spirit amongst Pentecostals. If you don't speak in tongues, you don't rate as a serious Christian?

 

[JLB]

Well, the jargon you use here is the bias you believe in. You quote verses of scripture (in your words) based on what you learned from the Pent./Char. traditions. If I told you that I have the Holy Spirit, would you believe me? Or do you insist that I use the same jargon you use in the way that you use it? And if I say I have the Holy Spirit, what would be the basis for you believing what I say or not believing it?
TD

Its a simple question.


Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed, they way the Bible describes receiving the Holy Spirit?


Example —


Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Acts 19:2-6



Example 2 —


While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Acts 10:44-46


Was this your experience when you received the Holy Spirit?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Well, then, what's your point? How is it relevant to the conversation?
TD

My point is help people understand what the Bible teaches.