T.U.L.I.P. - Irresistible Grace

[OzSpen]

LOL
What happened to
I WASN'T BORN YESTERDAY!

Wonder what they say in England....
Canada....
South Africa....
etc.

Good night Oz.

wondering,

The Oxford Dictionary blames it on 'informal' language used by Aussies and Kiwis: https://www.lexico.com/definition/someone_didn't_come_down_in_the_last_shower

I checked 6 dictionaries for 'wasn't born yesterday' and most gave a definition. The Macmillan Dictionary: https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/i-wasn-t-born-yesterday?q=I+wasn't+born+yesterday and the Merriam-Webster, 'wasn't born yesterday'.

Make sure you enjoy your nap.

Oz

 

[JLB]

Take a read of: https://www.facebook.com/EnglishLea...-not-stupid-dont-try-and-put/550265405017464/

No thanks.

 

[jerry63935]

What do you mean Jerry?
I don't understand.

your telling me as long as you been here you dont understand the rule no discussion of osas or osnas that is exactly what is going on. understand i dont care on way or the other. its silly to discuss it it leads to argument . but then again maybe rules are wrote in pencil

 

[JLB]

your telling me as long as you been here you dont understand the rule no discussion of osas or osnas that is exactly what is going on. understand i dont care on way or the other. its silly to discuss it it leads to argument . but then again maybe rules are wrote in pencil

This area was designed to discuss doctrines that can lead to heated discussion.

That’s why you needed to get permission.

We are out of sight of the general forum area, so people viewing won’t see any disputes.

We are trying have an area where we can discuss these things in a civil way, and still get our point across, and possibly find some common ground.


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

your telling me as long as you been here you dont understand the rule no discussion of osas or osnas that is exactly what is going on. understand i dont care on way or the other. its silly to discuss it it leads to argument . but then again maybe rules are wrote in pencil

Jerry,
We can discuss OSAS in this forum which is the Theological Discussion Forum.
It's only for members and only for those that can stay calm.
If you're here it means you asked permission and were granted access.
We can discuss anything here, as long as we're nice to each other....
:halo


P.S. I see that JLB also replied to you in his post no. 64.

 

[jerry63935]

Jerry,
We can discuss OSAS in this forum which is the Theological Discussion Forum.
It's only for members and only for those that can stay calm.
If you're here it means you asked permission and were granted access.
We can discuss anything here, as long as we're nice to each other....
:halo


P.S. I see that JLB also replied to you in his post no. 64.

present lol u forget

 

[GodsGrace]

present lol u forget

Yes, I did !

Could you just go over your belief quick?

But I won't reply till tomorrow.
Past midnight here....

 

[jerry63935]

Yes, I did !

Could you just go over your belief quick?

But I won't reply till tomorrow.
Past midnight here....

better yet ask me what subject you want i will reply...i give fair warning i got this through my own personal study over years if i get out side replies telling me how wrong i will respond nicely once after that i get point blank

 

[GodsGrace]

@jasonc said:
What exactly does it mean because He first loved us..


1 john 4:19.

Calvinisn doesn't imply you,don't make a decision.

Wondering said:
Of course calvinism implies we don't make a decision.
If Piper can state that God has predetermined everything from the beginning,,,how could YOU say that God did not?

According to Calvinism, we do not make any decision...
they are all made for us.

Not only that,,,but we have nothing to do whatsoever with deciding to be saved.
What do you think UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION means? It means GOD chooses us based on NOTHING AT ALL...it's at His whim. YOU have no choice as to whether or not you are saved.
If you don't believe this then you cannot call yourself a calvinist or should you be going to a calvinist church.

Does that sound like a loving God to you?

They teach that God wanting you,to be saved makes your life he'll.he allows sin to decimate you .he knowing,that will,one day repent ,ordained the day of it.seeing it long,before you birth .you can't reject it because God forseen it.

This would be IRRESISTIBLE GRACE.
Because God FORESAW something does NOT mean He caused that something to happen.
It must means He KNEW it would happen.

Our lives ,already are played out before him.a being outside of time knows us better then we do.he knows what will,do today ,what we did .

I agree with this.
But you keep switching back and forth...this is NOT what you said just above.
above you said that we CANNOT reject God when He gives us salvation because He foresaw it.

You,are stuck in this limited ,finite view of time .I have literally had God interupt ,rmy,life to get me saved .he let me go and go until it was the time.


I,didn't seek him,he sought me .God inmates the marriage .in Jewry as my family can be used.the male proclaims his love for the wife,he comes for the bride ,he takes her to the rabbi to be wed.

Ever wonder why Jesus used Jewish wedding ceremonies ,they rejoice at weddings .my family has a fb page it has a photo of my grandpa and his eight siblings under the chuppa .there are other photos of the dancing ,the plates being tossed,the ceremonial first night together ,the wine drinking with the groom stating his vows to his future wife .

Male leading the woman he loves into the marriage ,of course its but a dark glimmer ,but the bride is happy to become a wife and in those days the parents choose the wives ,a dowry was haggeled amongst men.

I'm,not suggesting that for a marriage but only using the chuppa to show you how God sought after the nation of isReal and the church .

Great. When God is speaking about election, He means the election of Israel from which He would reveal Himself. I agree with this. But you've again changed your mind from personal salvation to corporate salvation.

Let the redeemed of the Lord say so,in context originally is about isreal.it applies to the church ,but not only,the church as is real was redeemed .it will be again ,but that's another thread and I may bounce off the church futurists and pastor on this.

God bought is real in exodus ,he redeemed them .there is a few versus on that in the prophets on is real being a bloddied baby girl and being cleansed and redeemed and married to by God .

I am married to a perpetual backslider

At least we can agree about Israel.
I'm sorry about your spouse.
Some of us have spouses that are not even saved....

So do you think God PREDESTINED your wife to be a perpetual backslider?
Does this give God glory?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus is not the messenger....
Jesus is the message.

 

[GodsGrace]

better yet ask me what subject you want i will reply...i give fair warning i got this through my own personal study over years if i get out side replies telling me how wrong i will respond nicely once after that i get point blank

What do you mean POINT BLANK?
You shoot people???
LOL

Ok.
Tell us what you believe about Eternal Security or, as some prefer to call it,
OSAS. You can discuss that here. It sounds like you might have an original idea...

 

[jerry63935]

Tell us what you believe about Eternal Security

is one of the most over blown discussions man has ever had. one group chringes at the two words. many are so legalistic that if the say the word shoot. there going to hell . one group thinks there so saved .that if they decide to revert back to the old life of sin and never repent there still saved.. what i mean by straight shooter is iam not afraid to say what i mean..some call it point blank . it got me removed from here ( shock ) i know lol in scriptures it tells us we can know we have eternal life . if one thinks or maybe has .chances are you dont have it.
John 17:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. the word know is have knowledge also a personal relationship

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Grace is a wonderful thing .i use to know a lady in the town i grew up in fell and broker her hip. after fully recovered .she took her walker to the post office everyday. it was there if she needed it . we are saved by grace through faith. Grace = God Riches at Christ Expense. he paid the debt not us. i hear the debate about you can or you cannot . this is not about the can or can not .but that we can be eternally secure
John 10:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

jude 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
these are just part of the promises .

this one is one of my favorites
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

i love the fact we are justified declared righteous /just as if we never sinned

yes Christ did say unless we repent ..
Luke 13:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

a true blue Child of God will repent .it may take a trip to God wood shed for a spiritual whipping . king david was a man after God own heart . butttttt he was a dulter and guilty of having a man murdered to cover up his affair with bathsheba and her having a child.. God took the Child -the chastisement . it took this along with Conviction to get david back to where he should.
if one is sinning and they say God does not chastise them.. this is not a good thing.. k.j.v reads a bastard with out a father. i doubt they was ever saved.

as i wrap this up is grace a tool to sin and it be ok? NO just like the lady bringing her walker with her. BTW she walked just about a mile round trip from her home to the post office . the walker is there for support. Grace is more than just salvation ..amen.. but paul pinned it best as in excuse to sin.

Romans 6:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me..



21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

i could do more but this is the basics of Eternal 1a: having infinite duration : EVERLASTING life.

i am not southern missionary or independent baptist .i have been in all 3 churches as well as pentecostal .there all good people

i have listed scripture given explanation i dont push my belief on any one nor do i back down if asked. this is as best as i can describe true eternal security. i dont care for the osas term even though we are only saved once. there are things i struggle with in my flesh .days i do good days i dont .the days i dont.i know this i can approach the throne of GRACE with boldness and obtain mercy and help in time of need

 

[GodsGrace]

is one of the most over blown discussions man has ever had. one group chringes at the two words. many are so legalistic that if the say the word shoot. there going to hell . one group thinks there so saved .that if they decide to revert back to the old life of sin and never repent there still saved.. what i mean by straight shooter is iam not afraid to say what i mean..some call it point blank . it got me removed from here ( shock ) i know lol in scriptures it tells us we can know we have eternal life . if one thinks or maybe has .chances are you dont have it.
John 17:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. the word know is have knowledge also a personal relationship

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Grace is a wonderful thing .i use to know a lady in the town i grew up in fell and broker her hip. after fully recovered .she took her walker to the post office everyday. it was there if she needed it . we are saved by grace through faith. Grace = God Riches at Christ Expense. he paid the debt not us. i hear the debate about you can or you cannot . this is not about the can or can not .but that we can be eternally secure
John 10:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

jude 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
these are just part of the promises .

this one is one of my favorites
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

i love the fact we are justified declared righteous /just as if we never sinned

yes Christ did say unless we repent ..
Luke 13:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

a true blue Child of God will repent .it may take a trip to God wood shed for a spiritual whipping . king david was a man after God own heart . butttttt he was a dulter and guilty of having a man murdered to cover up his affair with bathsheba and her having a child.. God took the Child -the chastisement . it took this along with Conviction to get david back to where he should.
if one is sinning and they say God does not chastise them.. this is not a good thing.. k.j.v reads a bastard with out a father. i doubt they was ever saved.

as i wrap this up is grace a tool to sin and it be ok? NO just like the lady bringing her walker with her. BTW she walked just about a mile round trip from her home to the post office . the walker is there for support. Grace is more than just salvation ..amen.. but paul pinned it best as in excuse to sin.

Romans 6:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me..



21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

i could do more but this is the basics of Eternal 1a: having infinite duration : EVERLASTING life.

i am not southern missionary or independent baptist .i have been in all 3 churches as well as pentecostal .there all good people

i have listed scripture given explanation i dont push my belief on any one nor do i back down if asked. this is as best as i can describe true eternal security. i dont care for the osas term even though we are only saved once. there are things i struggle with in my flesh .days i do good days i dont .the days i dont.i know this i can approach the throne of GRACE with boldness and obtain mercy and help in time of need

Jerry...
Very thought out post.
And you've given both versions of the eternal security doctrine.
I had written about this...the difference between OSAS, Eternal Security and Perseverance of the Saints.

You're presenting both views but only one could be correct.
I do believe we agree....maybe.
We can BE SURE of our ETERNAL SECURITY as long as we abide in Christ.
Abiding in Christ is necessary for salvation...
so if we are abiding in Him when we die, we will be saved, as promised by God. John 3:l16

I had written the difference once between the difference of the expressions.
They might shed some light on why we title E.S. differently....

Do you agree with the following?:

------------------------------------------------------------

OSAS:

Once Saved Always Saved teaches that once a person "accepts" Jesus, whatever that may mean to him... he believe to be saved forever....NO MATTER what he does in his life, or what type of life he lives.
IOW, he could murder and still be saved...he could not ask forgiveness of sins, and still be saved (as a habit not forgetfulness).

This is an extreme view and is not supported by the N.T. teachings of Jesus, Paul, and the other writers.


ETERNAL SECURITY:

Eternal Security is a biblical theory; however, there are conditions involved and some refuse to accept those conditions and thus get it mixed up with OSAS.

The N.T. speaks about eternal security. We can be eternally secure in Jesus IF we ABIDE in Him, and CONTINUE to abide in HIM, and IF we follow His teachings which is why He came to us...to teach us how to get to heaven.

This is why the N.T. is full of conditional words such as: IF, CONTINUE, ABIDE, DWELL, BELIEVE in the present tense, do not FALL AWAY, PERSEVERE,,,,etc.


PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS:

Perseverance of the saints is a calvinistic theology and is a bit more complicated.
This teaches that God will keep his elected secure and they cannot leave their faith.
This is because God has elected them to be saved and so He will keep them saved.
However, John Calvin did teach that in order to be sure that one is saved he must have the love and willingness to do works. Also, it's difficult for a calvinist to be sure of their salvation because, after all, how could one know for SURE that God chose them? What if they stop doing good works?
This means that only at the END of their life, can they truly know if they were really saved.
This is where the idea comes from that if one DOES LOSE their salvation, it's because they never had it to begin with.


Unless a person really does some studying on the above three doctrine...they will get them all mixed up with each other till their belief no longer makes any sense and they have, in effect, created a belief all their own.

For instance. some that believe in OSAS also believe that is one falls away it means they were never saved to begin with....this idea, instead, comes from Pers. of the Saints...and so all 3 get confused with each other.

I would hope that this would help those reading along to understand the differences and to know better what they believe.

I believe in Eternal Security.


source: my own notes.

 

[jerry63935]

Eternal Security is a biblical theory

no its a fact we can be its all in how one lives it people keep forgetting

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

we also forget
A Heavenly Inheritance
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [b]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. we often strain at a qnat on the subject. true eternal security is real as i stated its all in how you live it. fact is you either are or your not only 2 kinds people lost or saved. there is no in between .

 

[GodsGrace]

no its a fact we can be its all in how one lives it people keep forgetting

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

we also forget
A Heavenly Inheritance
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance [b]incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. we often strain at a qnat on the subject. true eternal security is real as i stated its all in how you live it. fact is you either are or your not only 2 kinds people lost or saved. there is no in between .

I agree with you Jerry.
If we LIVE IT,,,,then we can be secure in our salvation.

It's just that some claim they can even blaspheme the Holy Spirit and still be saved.
This was stated on this very site.
This CANNOT be true or all of Jesus' teachings become null and void.

 

[jerry63935]

It's just that some claim they can even blaspheme the Holy Spirit and still be saved.
This was stated on this very site.
This CANNOT be true or all of Jesus' teachings become null and void.

for one this is not bible to say this. 2/ there is wide debate over the Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. i find the only unforgivable sin is rejecting Christ that is what Christ was talking about they rejected him as the true messiah .in today's world we do have atheist and agnostics .we also have those who by their own good standards professed to be saved . even paul before being saved had a form of blasphemy 2 .he rejected jesus persecuted Christians . he said he done it out of ignorance even though eh felt he wa ok.

we have much religion in our society a form of Godliness but denying the power there of . but yes i am well aware of the teaching revert back still ok. i dont agree with it. on the other hand .i am not the judge of salvation we simply do not have that authority .
i struggle with those who use to be active in Church and no longer has any interest .

i have had people tell me i use to be saved? really use to be? if that be the case i tell them they have a advocate with the father .
when it comes to those who use to be in there imo we have to leave it to the Lord
Romans 9:15
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
granted this can be a difficult task it takes lots of prayer and can be hard on a person .trying to deal with some is like a mule looking at a new gate . restoration
Galatians 6

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

5 For every man shall bear his own burden.


here we all fall short

 

[JLB]

for one this is not bible to say this. 2/ there is wide debate over the Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. i find the only unforgivable sin is rejecting Christ that is what Christ was talking about they rejected him as the true messiah .in today's world we do have atheist and agnostics .we also have those who by their own good standards professed to be saved . even paul before being saved had a form of blasphemy 2 .he rejected jesus persecuted Christians . he said he done it out of ignorance even though eh felt he wa ok.

It would evident from your statement that blasphemy against the Spirit, could not possibly be rejecting Christ, otherwise Paul and countless millions of Christians today could not possibly be saved.


Your claim would mean that people who hear the Gospel and don’t believe the first time they hear it, But reject Christ, can never be saved, because they have “blasphemed the Holy Spirit”.

They can never be forgiven.


Blasphemy means to speak against in a derogatory way.


People who reject the Gospel or reject Christ, simply need not open their mouth and say anything.


In the example we see the Pharisees called the Spirit by which Jesus was operating, the devil.


That is blasphemy of the Spirit, calling the Holy Spirit the devil.


“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Matthew 12:31-32


Notice the words Jesus uses.

• Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit,

Speaks against is clear.




Speaking against the Spirit in a derogatory way is blasphemy.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I do believe we agree....maybe.
We can BE SURE of our ETERNAL SECURITY as long as we abide in Christ.
Abiding in Christ is necessary for salvation...
so if we are abiding in Him when we die, we will be saved, as promised by God. John 3:l16

Amen. Well said.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

for one this is not bible to say this. 2/ there is wide debate over the Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. i find the only unforgivable sin is rejecting Christ that is what Christ was talking about they rejected him as the true messiah .in today's world we do have atheist and agnostics .we also have those who by their own good standards professed to be saved . even paul before being saved had a form of blasphemy 2 .he rejected jesus persecuted Christians . he said he done it out of ignorance even though eh felt he wa ok.

Agreed. Just want to say that blaspheming the Holy Spirit also means that we attribute to God something that satan did -or Vice Versa - like when Jesus exorcised demons.
OR when we use bad language in regards to the Holy Spirit ---calling God a vile name.
One cannot do this and still feel they are saved..it's impossible, as you've stated.

we have much religion in our society a form of Godliness but denying the power there of . but yes i am well aware of the teaching revert back still ok. i dont agree with it. on the other hand .i am not the judge of salvation we simply do not have that authority .
i struggle with those who use to be active in Church and no longer has any interest .

i have had people tell me i use to be saved? really use to be? if that be the case i tell them they have a advocate with the father .
when it comes to those who use to be in there imo we have to leave it to the Lord

Sure. I leave all salvation to the Lord.
We speak about soteriology, but God does the decision making.

Some believe salvation could be let go, and it's something I think we've all seen.
Some will say that those persons were never saved to begin with --- but it sure seemed like they were!
This has to be left up to God. We just should not take our salvation for granted.

Romans 9:15

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
granted this can be a difficult task it takes lots of prayer and can be hard on a person .trying to deal with some is like a mule looking at a new gate . restoration
Galatians 6

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

5 For every man shall bear his own burden.


here we all fall short

Oh,,,I agree.
We could fall into sin and still be saved...
it's our abandonment of God that would lead us down a path to destruction.
I agree to the rest. I have enough to do to think about my own salvation.
But I DO dislike when someone states that we could live as we want and still be saved.
I feel this is dangerous because nothing impure will enter into heaven.
Revelation 21:27

 

[jerry63935]

Your claim

is invalid the only thing i failed to add on rejecting Christ was never being saved

Speaking against the Spirit in a derogatory way is blasphem.

so this cant be forgiven? i am glad your not my judge . because i will assure in my former life style .i used God name in vain in cussing told filthy jokes . ie ven smoked weed and drank beer on church steps.. shame on me but i been forgiven . i will assure you at some point or time in your life before Christ and i put me in this to. we have spoke a word against Christ . Paul on the damascus road was not on his way to sunday school class. he was on a mission to persecute Christians .which is same as speaking a word against . my writings/ grammar is not the best.

It would evident from your statement that blasphemy against the Spirit, could not possibly be rejecting Christ, otherwise Paul and countless millions of Christians today could not possibly be saved.

really not sure how you came to this conclusion . but i will assure you that is totally incorrect.
if there is something i posted you dont understand feel free to ask. i went back through seen a few spelling errors . i think i made it fairly clear the only thing i seen that could possibly be misunderstood is this --> for one this is not bible to say this. 2/ there is wide debate over the Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. i find the only unforgivable sin is rejecting Christ { i am posting in reference to those using eternal security to live a sinful life.} that is not Bible

 

[JLB]

is invalid the only thing i failed to add on rejecting Christ was never being saved

Right.

Paul rejected Christ being unsaved, and persecuted Christians who followed the Lord.


Based on your definition of blasphemy of the Spirit, Paul could never be forgiven, not in this age or the age to come.




JLB