Don't you think Jesus would have SAID that?
He would then have come to Glorify Themselves, and (heh) Raise themselves from the Dead?
He would then have come to Glorify Themselves, and (heh) Raise themselves from the Dead?
The Biblical ONENESS of God
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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The problem for you is the context.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” (ESV)
First, ginomai ("was") and eimi ("am") are quite different, so the chances of Jesus using eimi as "was" when he just used ginomai, are slim to none, especially when it isn't translated as "was." Ginomai means "to come into being," "to happen," or "to become." Eimi means "to be," "to exist." Jesus is comparing the temporary, previous existence of Abraham to his absolute, timeless existence.
Second, the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for blasphemy, which wouldn't have happened if Jesus was merely claiming to exist before Abraham.
We always find excuses to believe what we want.
Jesus was answering a question using 'ego eimi' in the ways he used it before: "I have been".
NOT in the symbolic HEBREW name his Father used only ONE TIME- and even IT wasn't "I am".
So be it.
Sure do.
Where, exactly, did Jesus use ego eimi as "I have been"?
It was. The Septuagint has ego eimi in Exo 3:14.
The text calls Jesus who is coming Almighty. That isn't the only thing that shows Jesus is "the True God" just like the Father:
8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:8 NKJ)
13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 "I, Jesus, (Rev. 22:13-16 NKJ)
Who is the Alpha and Omega? "Jesus".
There is only one Alpha and Omega First and Last, can't have two firsts and two lasts"
A critical thinker like myself, who believes 100% of the Bible is True, cannot ignore these texts and be true to my faith.
That is why I believe in the Holy Trinity, its the ONLY explanation why these texts, which call both the Father and Son "Alpha and Omega" "Almighty God", can exist.
Its a matter of being logically consistent. You think people believe in the Trinity because men teach it. That is incorrect.
Bible Believers, when confronted with texts like these, had to confess Jesus really is God the Son, Second Person of the Holy Trinity.
Otherwise the bible contradicts itself. Truth never contradicts itself, so much more is at stake here than you realize. Its only because the Bible NEVER contradicts itself and is 100% truth, that I believe it without hesitation or reservation. I stake my life on it.
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Rev 1:1- [An Angel?] The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants what must soon take place; and he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2- who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. 3- Blessed is he who reads aloud the words of the prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written therein; for the time is near. 4- John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, 5- and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood 6- and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7- Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
8- [Jehovah] “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
12- Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands,
13- and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast;
14- his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire,
15- his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters;
16- in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.
17- When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last,
18- and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
19- Now write what you see, what is and what is to take place hereafter.
20- As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
8- [Jehovah] “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
9- I John, your brother, who share with you in Jesus the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
10- I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet
11-[Jesus] saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Per′gamum and to Thyati′ra and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to La-odice′a.”
12- Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands,
13- and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast;
14- his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire,
15- his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters;
16- in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.
17- When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last,
18- and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
19- Now write what you see, what is and what is to take place hereafter.
20- As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
I just wanted to show you an example of the truth.
Examples of how that phrase is rendered in all
other scriptures- (any interlinear will
quickly show you)-
"I am, I have, I was, it is I, we have", and may
more variations.
Where does that link show any of that? It does state this:
1510 /eimí ("is, am") – in the present tense, indicative mood – can be time-inclusive ("omnitemporal," like the Hebrew imperfect tense). Only the context indicates whether the present tense also has "timeless" implications. For example, 1510 (eimí) is aptly used in Christ's great "I am" (ego eimi . . . ) that also include His eternality (self-existent life) as our life, bread, light," etc. See Jn 7:34, 8:58, etc.
Back to the point. You stated: 'Jesus was answering a question using 'ego eimi' in the ways he used it before: "I have been".'
So, again, where exactly did Jesus use ego eimi as "I have been"?
Definition
I exist, I am
NASB Translation
accompanied* (1), accompany* (2), am (138), amount (1), amounts (1), appear* (1), asserted* (1), become* (5), been (45), been* (1), being (26), belong (3), belonged* (1), belonging (1), belonging* (1), belongs (4), bring* (1), came (1), come (5), consist (1), crave* (1), depends* (1), do (1), done* (1), exist (3), existed (4), existed* (1), falls (1), found (1), had (8), happen (4), have (2), have come (1), lived (1), mean (1), mean* (2), means (7), meant (2), originate (1), owns (1), remain (3), remained (1), rest (1), sided (1), stayed (2), themselves (1), there (6), turn (1).
Was Christ referring to the Mountain and Moses?
Please, Free, free yourself of church dogma!
Again, please answer the question. You made a claim and I am asking you for evidence of it, which you have yet to provide.
Back to the point. You stated: 'Jesus was answering a question using 'ego eimi' in the ways he used it before: "I have been".'
So, again, where exactly did Jesus use ego eimi as "I have been"?
The Complete Gospels-R.J.Miller(Editor): "I existed"
New American Standard Bible 1963-1970 editions: "I have been"-alternative rendering.
I suspect theology that focus hours and hours of study on the nature of God is a diversion from study on what God asks a man to do. How much easier it is to feel one is spiritual and growing in the faith by forming a detailed description of God’s material attributes rather than keeping Jesus’ teaching regarding one’s behavior and where it is lacking.
How does God write this new covenant on the hearts of those He gave the right to be called the children of God so that from least to the greatest they would "know Him"?
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
...AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT.
I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
If you "belong" to Jesus then the Spirit of Christ is in you. Apparently, Jesus has this skillset as He is the "only" like to like begotten Son. Such a being would be a Son and would be God. The "only" begotten "God" NOT the Father who is the only unbegotten God or only true God but one who has in Him all the Fullness of God. (without limit) The very image of the invisible God. The radiance of the Fathers glory and the exact imprint of His very being. Mighty God. And He and the Father are "One" just as He taught and testified to that truth. In Christ the Father is glorified. I worship Father and Son.
Gifted from the will of another to Gods Firstborn (Col 1:19) before all things. Such as before the world began.
Such a Son was with God in the beginning. "The word of life" who is the very nature of God as stated. Who was the eternal life with His Father. And through Him and by Him and for Him the Father made all things that Jesus was before.
Perhaps you can understand the lawfulness of name God the Father glorified His Son with. (God)?
You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.
Jesus- All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.
Moses asked for a name. ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?
Jesus accusers weren't asking for a name. Jesus answered in regard to their sarcasm. "You are not yet 50 years old and you've seen Abraham"
He has the correct context as I see.
Gods firstborn would be a being and not a people and such a being would make such a statement, "before Abraham was born I AM"
The Only begotten like to like Son. (Col 1:19)
The firstborn God brought into the world. (Hebrews 1:6)
If you want reason how can a coeternal being be a Son with a Father and a God?
How can an only begotten Son begotten from another be begotten without a starting point?
True God from the Father alone but not begotten. I agree in part Col 1:19. "from?? with no starting point" Col 1:19 would have a point in history.
John 1:18 the only begotten with the Father who came down from the Fathers very presence as the only such eye witness. There is no historical usage of the term only begotten of a parent to mean no beginning before or after the churches defining such with Jesus. John used "only begotten" not only unbegotten.
Jesus is the beginning of the event of the resurrection from the dead and the first resurrected from the dead as in the firstborn from the dead. Likewise Jesus is the beginning of the creation of the Father and the firstborn of all creation. (First)
I know and believe Jesus is "all" that the Father is and can see at Jesus's point of will the Spirit of God acts just as if He was the Father Himself. Just as our own spirit carries out the will of our mind. I see Him as God and one with the Father but also as a firstborn Son.
All answers in Denial.
But I and others have tried.
Speaking of answers not given-
Did God send THEMSELEVES?
Did God pray to THEMSELEVES?
Did God THEMSELEVEs die?
Did God resurrect THEMSELEVES?
Did God give THEMSELEVES all power and authority?
But I and others have tried.
Speaking of answers not given-
Did God send THEMSELEVES?
Did God pray to THEMSELEVES?
Did God THEMSELEVEs die?
Did God resurrect THEMSELEVES?
Did God give THEMSELEVES all power and authority?
They believe the Father is not the Son. Yet the Father and Son are One. In that oneness Jesus is the first and last. We who belong to Christ in that oneness are the seed of Abraham. Furthermore the fullness was pleased to dwell in the Son so the Son is the very image and nature of the invisible God. Just as the Fathers own Spirit would have His nature. (Father, Son, Spirit) all expressed as one God.
Do you believe the Father is the Gardner and Jesus is the true vine. That every branch not in Him withers and dies and such branches are gathered up and thrown in the fire?
Are you in the true vine? Do you receive life and nourishment from being "in Him"?
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
We live through Christ who is our life.
"Through whom all things came and through whom we "live".