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The Catholic Church.

for_his_glory said:
Walpole and Bethel you both need to walk away from this argument or you will both be removed from this thread. Please take it to private PM if you want to continue this.
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No problem.

Do me a favor, being that i'll remove myself from this Thread.
If you see any more attacks posted by Wondering or Walpole, would you mind stopping by and pointing out that they should have better things to do, then talk about me when im not on the Thread.


Thx,


-B
 
Bethel said:
Thank you for giving me your orders.
Duly noted.

Also, i was trying to "move on", but Walpole keeps sending me more posts.

Perhaps you could "pm" them, and mention what you just mentioned to me.
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I do believe he has stopped this discussion.
 
Bethel said:
No problem.

Do me a favor, being that i'll remove myself from this Thread.
If you see any more attacks posted by Wondering or Walpole, would you mind stopping by and pointing out that they should have better things to do, then talk about me when im not on the Thread.


Thx,


-B
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I'm not attacking you Bethel.
I don't know what you mean re talking about you when you're not on the thread?

I do apologize if I've offended you.
 
Bethel said:
No problem.

Do me a favor, being that i'll remove myself from this Thread.
If you see any more attacks posted by Wondering or Walpole, would you mind stopping by and pointing out that they should have better things to do, then talk about me when im not on the Thread.


Thx,


-B
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any attacks on a member that is here or not will be deleted and action will be taken on all involved.
 
jaybo said:
She was just a random teenager selected by God to give birth to Jesus in human form and apparently did a good job of raising Him.
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I have to disagree with this statement. I do not believe she was just randomly selected by God to bear the Son of God in human form. God specifically chose her and it was not a random drawing as Scripture says she was highly favored and blessed. There was a reason for this and perhaps only God knows why. I think it goes without saying that she was surely righteous in God's eyes.
 
I'm not going to go back to try to pin the tale on the donkey so-to-speak. I think you've all said what you have said and nobody will change their mind at this time. It is time to shake the dust off your feet and move on.
 
WIP said:
I have to disagree with this statement. I do not believe she was just randomly selected by God to bear the Son of God in human form. God specifically chose her and it was not a random drawing as Scripture says she was highly favored and blessed. There was a reason for this and perhaps only God knows why. I think it goes without saying that she was surely righteous in God's eyes.
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I think you identified the reason why so many do not regard Mary in any sort of regard. To these people, Mary was nothing more than an object used by God; just some ordinary person in Nazareth that God so happened to find.

But are we to really believe that God would leave the redemption of man to chance, hoping He would just so happen to find a virgin woman in the town of Nazareth? If there was none to be found there, are we to believe God would have simply just looked in the next closest town, scouring villages until He found a suitor?

We know from Scripture this is not the case. First, because there are many types and figures of her in the Old Testament. These include Eve, Sara, Deborah, Judith and Esther. Secondly, she is prophesied in Scripture. There are four principal prophesies of Mary in the Old Testament:

I. The protoevangelium of Genesis 3:15 (KJV) - "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

II. The Virgin Birth of Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

III. The woman whose son will be a ruler from Bethlehem in Micah 5:2-3 (KJV) - "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel."

IV. The God-man in the womb in Jeremiah 31:22 (KJV) - "How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man."



These demonstrate Mary was not some ordinary and random person God just so happened stumble across in Nazareth. Rather, she was quite extraordinary and was clearly part of God's plan from the beginning for the redemption of man.

There is a reason why Elizabeth said Mary will be called blessed by all generations. It's telling when those in this generation refuse her honor.
 
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wondering said:
Happy to hear this!
I wonder if the above is in one of Benedict's books about the life of Jesus?

I also can't grasp how Mary is a the prototype of the church. Sometimes I think I do,,,but it quickly becomes lost to me. I think even you mentioned this at some point.
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Much can be said on this, but in brief, Mary embodies the promises of redemption in her person. She reveals what it means to be redeemed. In her the mystery of grace is personified. She is the ultimate type, figure and image of the Church because the type always surpass the perfection of the antitype. Mary, by grace, personifies Christian perfection. She is pure by grace and completely obedient to the will of God.
 
Bethel said:
Please be serious.

What more could the CC do to elevate Mary?

"""""""The will of the Blessed Virgin is completely conformed to that of Her Son, in other words – God. She is the most humble and chaste spouse of the Holy Ghost and will never do anything contrary to the will of God. Thus, we ought to trust the Blessed Mother just as God has, because She ultimately brings us to God. Mary is our Salvation, and Christ is the source of our Salvation. Mary is the Gate and Christ is the Key. It is only through Her that we are saved.
She saves us by bringing us to Christ """

Pope Leo XIII said: "The recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace."""""
""
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Seriously? To me this is just meaningless extra-Biblical propaganda. Mary is not our salvation (according to God's word -- the Bible). There is nothing in the Bible that says that only through her are we saved; IMHO that is blasphemy. The same applies to "she saves us by bringing us to Christ ". Nowhere in Scripture...
 
jaybo said:
Seriously? To me this is just meaningless extra-Biblical propaganda. Mary is not our salvation (according to God's word -- the Bible). There is nothing in the Bible that says that only through her are we saved; IMHO that is blasphemy. The same applies to "she saves us by bringing us to Christ ". Nowhere in Scripture...
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Enough about poor Mary.
But if she did not bear the Savior, how would He have been born?

For this alone she should be more than respected, everyone should be respected... I'd say venerated is a good word.

Anyway the CC teaches that Jesus is our salvation.
 
wondering said:
Enough about poor Mary.
But if she did not bear the Savior, how would He have been born?

For this alone she should be more than respected, everyone should be respected... I'd say venerated is a good word.

Anyway the CC teaches that Jesus is our salvation.
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He would have been born with a different mother. God's will is just that; He alone can determine what happens according to His will.
 
wondering said:
Enough about poor Mary.
But if she did not bear the Savior, how would He have been born?

For this alone she should be more than respected, everyone should be respected... I'd say venerated is a good word.

Anyway the CC teaches that Jesus is our salvation.
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All the types, prophesies and genealogies would have been wrong.
 
Walpole said:
Exactly. Where I live Protestants handle rattlesnakes during church services. Is that a fair indictment on mainstream Protestantism?
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Of course not. Since the "long ending" of Mark's gospel (where this is found) is considered to have been added to the text after it was originally written, it is not considered to be Scripture. This bizarre practice has nothing to do with mainstream Protestantism.
 
jaybo said:
Of course not. Since the "long ending" of Mark's gospel (where this is found) is considered to have been added to the text after it was originally written, it is not considered to be Scripture. This bizarre practice has nothing to do with mainstream Protestantism.
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Have you now removed Mark 16:18 from your canon of Scripture?
 
WIP said:
I have to disagree with this statement. I do not believe she was just randomly selected by God to bear the Son of God in human form. God specifically chose her and it was not a random drawing as Scripture says she was highly favored and blessed. There was a reason for this and perhaps only God knows why. I think it goes without saying that she was surely righteous in God's eyes.
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Agreed. LOL @ "random drawing"
God does nothing 'randomly'. (though, perhaps jaybo meant 'randomly' in another sense.)
I don't think she was righteous in God's eyes as in "had no original sin" ... (immaculate conception) (Romans 3:10)
 
jaybo said:
He would have been born with a different mother. God's will is just that; He alone can determine what happens according to His will.
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Agreed.
Matthew 3:9 and do not presume to say to yourselves [as a defense], ‘We have Abraham for our father [so our inheritance assures us of salvation]’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children (descendants) for Abraham. Or from the same stones God come have raised up 20 Marys.
Mary is the effect. God is the cause of Mary's blessings. Mary, of herself (self caused), is NOTHING. (Col. 1:16, Acts 17:28).
 
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