Bible Study The Church At Corinth: Can Born-Again Believers Still Be Carnal?

[Angelina]

Can Born-Again Believers Still Be Carnal?

Let’s take a look at the church at Corinth. Corinth was one of the most important trade cities in the Roman Empire. It was a city of diversity, with people from various cultures, languages, and religions. Corinth was known throughout the ancient world as a city of wealth and opulence. It was a main trading port that drew all kinds of trade and commerce and was also known for its lack of moral compass. The city itself, being dedicated to Aphrodite, the goddess of sex, and home to many other gods dotting the landscape.

Paul began preaching the gospel in this city around 50 AD. After some time, Paul establishes a Christian community (church) consisting of Jews and gentiles from diverse socio-economic backgrounds. Their commonality was based on faith in the message of the cross through Jesus Christ. (As our churches are today.)

Paul spent 18 months in the city before he departed, but he heard news of divisions, moral issues, and factions that he needed to address. Paul writes letters to the Christian community in Corinth, offering some spiritual guidance and support for this fledgling church. He uses the imagery of the body and its parts being able to fit together for the good of all its members.

He tackles the moral dilemma that was prevalent in the church, which included sexual sin that even the pagans living around them considered unacceptable behavior. Paul clarifies to the church at Corinth that their bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, set apart for God. He reminds them to flee from sexual immorality as their bodies have been bought with a price, even the blood of Jesus, and they should glorify God with their bodies. He instigates disciplinary strategies as a means for bringing members to a place of repentance for their sinful ways and restoration back into the body of Christ. He instructs the church at Corinth to take decisive action against those living carnal lifestyles. He encourages them to seek a life that honors God as a testimony of new creations in Christ.

Although the community at Corith was established by Paul, founded on the message of the cross, and it's members had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, some were still living carnally. Salvation is a free gift, but sanctification is a walk, a work in progress, and a journey with the guidance of the Holy Spirit so that new creations in Christ may grow in their faith and become more like God and less like the world they came from. Sanctification also requires discipline and repentance, particularly as Spirit battles against the carnal nature that desires to gain control, since the carnal nature (flesh/old man) does not want to be crucified (even though Christ had already done this at the cross (Romans 6:5-7)

Once a believer genuinely repented of their sins in the early churches, they were forgiven by God, cleansed by the blood of Jesus, and eventually restored back into the body, which is the church.

Our relationship with him is not autonomous; it is a personal, intimate, one-on-one relationship with the author and perfecter of our faith.

1 John 1:9 says
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world Glory!

Angelina

Written 15/02/2025

 

[Hidden In Him]

Can Born-Again Believers Still Be Carnal?

Paul spent 18 months in the city before he departed, but he heard news of divisions, moral issues, and factions that he needed to address. Paul writes letters to the Christian community in Corinth, offering some spiritual guidance and support for this fledgling church. He uses the imagery of the body and its parts being able to fit together for the good of all its members.

He tackles the moral dilemma that was prevalent in the church, which included sexual sin that even the pagans living around them considered unacceptable behavior.

There are some that teach that a true Christian no longer struggles with sin, but I do not subscribe to that theory. And it's in some ways a very important issue because I see many younger Christians in particular still struggling with the flesh, and some become despondent that they might not even be saved and eventually cast down their faith in Christianity.

I know men of God who move in the prophetic and receive dreams and/ visions from God, and yet still struggle with the sins of the flesh. Does this mean they are not saved? Some might say, "Well the gifts of God are without repentance," but that cancels out if they were in those sins when they received the gift to begin with, LoL. The truth is, while God is certainly not pleased with our sin and wants us to correct it, it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance. If we cannot have a life in Him, how will we ever hope to depart from the lifestyle of the world? So He helps us along and has mercy on us, and through that mercy we have the desire to increasingly depart from that which displeases Him.

I could go into an examination of the Corinthians at length, and that it was much the same situation; they operated in spiritual gifts and yet they struggled with the desires of the flesh. But for now, suffice it to say that I think we become way too presumptuous about ourselves if we think we are saved and others are not because we have finally arrived at sanctification. We can often forget that we were not always that way, and where would we be if others had condemned us as not being saved when we were still trying to work out our salvation to the very best of our ability at the time.

 

[for_his_glory]

Even though we are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit, John 3:5-7, we also are housed in this carnal fleshly body where the nature to sin dwells. When we are in the flesh, as far as the desires of the flesh, we will unwillingly fall short at times, which is no excuse to sin, but that we need to crucify this flesh daily as we press more into Christ and walk in the Spirit so we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. None of us are yet perfect, but being perfected daily until the day of Christ return when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will be changed to immortality as we are changed and made perfect before the Lord as then death is swallowed up in victory when we are caught up to meet Jesus in the air and will evermore be with Him, 1Corinthians 15:51-58.

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him.

 

[Angelina]

I know men of God who move in the prophetic and receive dreams and/ visions from God, and yet still struggle with the sins of the flesh.

I also had a friend just like this. His gifts were outstanding, and his revelations were definitely from God, but his personal life did not reflect his public Christian life. I can recall a time my friend and I went to visit him without calling first, and he was caught in a very compromising position. Also know of ministers who were struggling with sin even though they were amazing in their gifts. The Bible tells us that the gifts and callings are irrevocable, but one day we will need to render an account before God, who knows all things. Romans 11:29, Matthew 7:22

 

[Hidden In Him]

I also had a friend just like this. His gifts were outstanding, and his revelations were definitely from God, but his personal life did not reflect his public Christian life. I can recall a time my friend and I went to visit him without calling first, and he was caught in a very compromising position. Also know of ministers who were struggling with sin even though they were amazing in their gifts. The Bible tells us that the gifts and callings are irrevocable, but one day we will need to render an account before God, who knows all things. Romans 11:29, Matthew 7:22

I was talking with my wife about this just awhile ago, and she was saying how when she was young she liked listening to this plain-clothes nun teaching on holiness, and even attended though she wasn't allowed, because the woman would talk about after a shower she would clothe herself in a pure, white garment she wore because she belonged to Christ.

I told her I have heard other women say similar things, but from a man's perspective it's sometimes kinda like, "Yeah. well that's nice for you guys, but we're over here in the muck and the mire." The problem for men is testosterone, and while it gives us the drive to reproduce, the physical demands it places on the body to do so make it significantly more difficult to maintain that kind of purity in sexual matters. Granted, it's not an excuse, and certainly women are not immune from having a sex drive either, but men are kinda dealt a cruel hand in a way. If we are not blessed with a good situation sexually, where we can fulfill the need in a pure way, we get drug through the mud by it for years until we finally find a way to master things.

That might sound like a defense, but no. I think we as men bear great shame over the situation a lot of the time, and each of us deal with it in various ways. Just saying it's not a fun situation to manage.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I could go into an examination of the Corinthians at length, and that it was much the same situation; they operated in spiritual gifts and yet they struggled with the desires of the flesh.

To add some scriptural support to your OP, some of the clearest evidence that they were in the flesh can be seen in how they were "observing" the Lord's supper. It was a mess.

20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you. (1 Corinthians 11)

In other words, some were eating up all the food, and others were drinking up all the wine. And they had issues eating meat sacrificed to demons.

10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. (1 Corinthians 8)

Paul was not in the flesh, as it's suggested by his claim that he would do without meat for the rest of his life if necessary before letting some brother go to Hell over it. I wonder how many would be willing to make the same claim today?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Can Born-Again Believers Still Be Carnal?

Let’s take a look at the church at Corinth. Corinth was one of the most important trade cities in the Roman Empire. It was a city of diversity, with people from various cultures, languages, and religions. Corinth was known throughout the ancient world as a city of wealth and opulence. It was a main trading port that drew all kinds of trade and commerce and was also known for its lack of moral compass. The city itself, being dedicated to Aphrodite, the goddess of sex, and home to many other gods dotting the landscape.

Paul began preaching the gospel in this city around 50 AD. After some time, Paul establishes a Christian community (church) consisting of Jews and gentiles from diverse socio-economic backgrounds. Their commonality was based on faith in the message of the cross through Jesus Christ. (As our churches are today.)

Paul spent 18 months in the city before he departed, but he heard news of divisions, moral issues, and factions that he needed to address. Paul writes letters to the Christian community in Corinth, offering some spiritual guidance and support for this fledgling church. He uses the imagery of the body and its parts being able to fit together for the good of all its members.

He tackles the moral dilemma that was prevalent in the church, which included sexual sin that even the pagans living around them considered unacceptable behavior. Paul clarifies to the church at Corinth that their bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, set apart for God. He reminds them to flee from sexual immorality as their bodies have been bought with a price, even the blood of Jesus, and they should glorify God with their bodies. He instigates disciplinary strategies as a means for bringing members to a place of repentance for their sinful ways and restoration back into the body of Christ. He instructs the church at Corinth to take decisive action against those living carnal lifestyles. He encourages them to seek a life that honors God as a testimony of new creations in Christ.

Although the community at Corith was established by Paul, founded on the message of the cross, and it's members had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, some were still living carnally. Salvation is a free gift, but sanctification is a walk, a work in progress, and a journey with the guidance of the Holy Spirit so that new creations in Christ may grow in their faith and become more like God and less like the world they came from. Sanctification also requires discipline and repentance, particularly as Spirit battles against the carnal nature that desires to gain control, since the carnal nature (flesh/old man) does not want to be crucified (even though Christ had already done this at the cross (Romans 6:5-7)

Once a believer genuinely repented of their sins in the early churches, they were forgiven by God, cleansed by the blood of Jesus, and eventually restored back into the body, which is the church.

Our relationship with him is not autonomous; it is a personal, intimate, one-on-one relationship with the author and perfecter of our faith.

1 John 1:9 says
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2
My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world Glory!

Angelina

Written 15/02/2025

Paul writes..."This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Gal 5:16)

If one is still walking in the flesh, (carnal), they cannot do the things of the Spirit.

 

[Angelina]

Paul writes..."This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Gal 5:16)

Did you read the rest of that scripture, brother Hopeful 2? "17For the desire of the flesh is against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, in order to keep you from doing whatever you want."

Paul is saying that this wrestling between flesh and Spirit is within the believer. Then he goes on to say, "in order to keep you from doing what you want." Well, I know that believers want to follow the lord, so why did Paul make this comparison? If just the flesh were functioning in this person, he or she would be doing whatever they wanted. However, If you place the Holy Spirit within that same person, then there is going to be that wrestling as per Galatians 5:16-17. Jm2c Blessings!

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Yes we can be carnal.

Paul made this clear in romans 7 and how his flesh struggles with the spirit. and he does not do what he wants..

 

[Angelina]

And..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

If you look to the next passage, brother, you will notice that Paul again says:
25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s follow the Spirit as well. 26; Let’s not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one
If it were impossible for born-again believers to be boastful, challenging, and envious of one another, Paul would not have emphasized this...

 

[Angelina]

Hi Eternally-grateful. Nice to see you here brother

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Hi Eternally-grateful. Nice to see you here brother

Good Day Angelina Good to see you also dear sister!

 

[Angelina]

I'm on both forums but have some besties here, so I'm just posting stuff and getting to know folks.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Another member invited me in. Hoping to meet some new people.. But see some old friends also..

 

[Fish153]

The Old Testament has "types" all through it. I think Exodus 23:30 might be an example of this. We as Christians (as some have stated above) have a new nature, and the old fleshly nature in us at the same time. Romans 7 shows the struggle that takes place within the Christian. We are sanctified when we are saved---but there is also a daily sanctification that takes place as we mature as Christians. I think the Lord left the old nature in us for a reason. It is there to test us and try us and for us to overcome daily as we pick up our cross and follow the Lord.

Can Born-again Believers still be carnal? Yes---they can. As you showed, 1 Corinthians teaches us this. But, if we do take up our cross daily and allow God to vanquish the flesh through the Holy Spirit we can truly be overcomers. Here is the verse from Exodus in case some cry out: "Why, God why do I have to suffer with this flesh!!??"

"Little by little I will drive them out before you, until you have increased enough to take possession of the land." (Exodus 23:30). The flesh was left in us for a reason---so we learn to overcome.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I walk in the Spirit, so the wants I once wanted of the flesh, are impossible to do.

Hopeful, how are they at war with one another when they are not in the same place as you seem to suggest. In Romans 7:18, Paul states, "I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh." He wasn't talking about the flesh of some undisclosed person, he was talking about his own flesh, and throughout the teaching in Romans. His own flesh was warring against his own spirit, leading him to eventually say, "Oh wretched man that I am. Who will save me from the body of this death?"

How are they at war with one another if the two are never meeting anywhere, because he is only discussing unsaved people?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hopeful, how are they at war with one another when they are not in the same place as you seem to suggest. In Romans 7:18, Paul states, "I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh." He wasn't talking about the flesh of some undisclosed person,

He was in the midst of his recollections of his pre-conversion life in the "flesh".
Rom 7:5 says "we" are no longer in the "flesh".

he was talking about his own flesh,

Yes, but from a pre-conversion perspective.

 

[Angelina]

No, he isn't.
He is stating that those in the Spirit cannot do the things of the flesh.
And that those in the flesh cannot do the things of the Spirit.

He made the statement to illustrate that those in the Spirit will not commit works of the flesh.
They cannot !

If your premise is correct, then why does Paul reiterate in Ephesians 4 that those who are sealed in the Spirit can still grieve the Holy Spirit because of the works of their flesh?
Ephesians 4:29-31
29) Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30; And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

I walk in the Spirit, so the wants I once wanted of the flesh, are impossible to do.

you do this 24/7?

No, he isn't.
He is stating that those in the Spirit cannot do the things of the flesh.
And that those in the flesh cannot do the things of the Spirit.

Actually he is saying WHEN we are in the flesh, can not do things we want (in the spirit) and WHEN we are in the spirit, we can not do what we do nt want to do (things of the flesh)

He made the statement to illustrate that those in the Spirit will not commit works of the flesh.
They cannot !

Yes, WHEN we are in the spirit.

this is not a 24/78 thing that happens.. No one is sinless.. If we claim we have no sin, as John said, we are decieved.

The Holy Spirit will never dwell in a polluted temple.

Yet he does it every day. No one is perfect. only one

Walk in the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lusts of the "flesh". (Gal 5:16)

Amen..

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

Yes we have, But we still have the flesh so have to be warned. No need to warn us if we can not fall back

Choose one or the other, because they are not interchangeable.

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Why not ?
Not everyone who reads his letters is a Christian, so everything written can be used to help those "on the fence" to measure the cost of their conversion.

Paul is talking to believers, you and me, Not to those who are not believers. (in this context) non believers do not struggle with the flesh and spirit. their spirit is dead.

By seeing what is going to be expected of them, potential converts will be under no illusion that they can continue in their old ways.

Is this a requirement for salvation? to make ourselves clean. straighten up and fly right as my Dad used to say?