The Church Throughout Revelations

[Willie T]

Nope that didn't work either, must be my computer. There probably isn't any written version is there.

Nope, sorry. Chris doesn't write out his sermons.

 

[Willie T]

So I liked that he pointed out that our definition of the word revelation has been distorted. Even the Merriam dictionary has gone with a contemporary definition and related it to the Bible. Yike. That is not the definition of that word in Strong's.
I also liked that he said Revelation is not a crystal ball to see the future. It is a revelation (revealing) of Jesus Christ.
I am looking forward to the next message from Chris. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say.

On a lighter note, I can see why you like him, birds of a feather. He says that he gets peeved at an incorrect pronunciation of Revelation and that he is a smart alec. :biggrin

About that last sentence.......... I'm sure I haven't the slight clue what you might be talking about.

 

[reba]

lol

 

[Sinthesis]

Here's the first of the series on Rescuing Revelation that I said I would post.
http://stpetevineyard.sermon.net/main/main/20214469

He seems to have the right attitude to glimpse what Revelation offers the open minded. It will be interesting to hear what he sees.

 

[for_his_glory]

I can open the website, but not their media player. Dial-up, the price you pay for living in the sticks and no satellite service available

 

[Deborah13]

I can open the website, but not their media player. Dial-up, the price you pay for living in the sticks and no satellite service available

I remember what having dial up was like.

 

[Deborah13]

I can open the website, but not their media player. Dial-up, the price you pay for living in the sticks and no satellite service available

I downloaded the file to my computer. I wonder if I emailed the file to you if you would be able to open it a listen, thus no need for the internet connection. Lexy's at work right now so I can't ask her. It's an MP3 file that opens with Windows Media Player and a couple other players. I'll let you know.
Maybe one of our computer gurus will see this and give an answer.

 

[for_his_glory]

I downloaded the file to my computer. I wonder if I emailed the file to you if you would be able to open it a listen, thus no need for the internet connection. Lexy's at work right now so I can't ask her. It's an MP3 file that opens with Windows Media Player and a couple other players. I'll let you know.
Maybe one of our computer gurus will see this and give an answer.

Thanks Deborah, that would be great. my email is heavenbound72000@yahoo.com. Hope it works

 

[Deborah13]

Thanks Deborah, that would be great. my email is heavenbound72000@yahoo.com. Hope it works

It will be much later this evening before I can try it. I want to make sure I do it right the first time, so I will wait for Lexy.

 

[for_his_glory]

It will be much later this evening before I can try it. I want to make sure I do it right the first time, so I will wait for Lexy.

OK, will check my email tomorrow, thanks

 

[Willie T]

FHG, I hope you aren't getting too geared up for this, expecting something Earth-shattering. Chris is just a straight-talker, and he is only giving us a basic outline of where he is going in this intro sermon.

 

[for_his_glory]

FHG, I hope you aren't getting too geared up for this, expecting something Earth-shattering. Chris is just a straight-talker, and he is only giving us a basic outline of where he is going in this intro sermon.

Nope, just interested in what he has to say...................BTW my hubby grew up in St.Pete. I love going to Johns Pass when we go visit his brother and sister.

 

[Deborah13]

FHG, I hope you aren't getting too geared up for this, expecting something Earth-shattering. Chris is just a straight-talker, and he is only giving us a basic outline of where he is going in this intro sermon.

Yes it's just the intro for the series. But it gives insight into his view of Revelation.

 

[XxBluexXxTunicxX82]

I think that spiritual significance of the churches is the point of our focus. We wrestle not against flesh and blood... Thought those seven churches did exist, it is the spirit that was behind them that Christ looked at and judges in Revelation. We comprise the body of those churches today, the seven candlesticks through which Christ walks. I'm not talking of seven congregations or seven places of worship. I am talking about the mind of the believer and what they believe is truth. Look carefully here;

• The church of Ephesus apparently had good works, laboring in patience for the Lord. They despised the workers of iniquity and tested anyone who claimed to be an apostle of God. They were what some today would consider good Christians, but this is where they err. Jesus told them they needed to think back to point from where they had fallen – and he had already told them in the verse 4 where that place was: “thou hast left thy first love”.
  Do you know where the place is of your “first love” with Christ Jesus? Many people (even many who claim to be “Christian”) never have known Jesus as their “first love”. For them, Jesus has always been second to something or someone else, and therefore they have to commit some sort of sin and are unable to be faithful and true to Jesus in full obedience to his Word. Sin causes them to continually be “fallen” from Jesus ever being their first love.
  
  “O israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.” (Hosea 14:1)
  
  
• A “first love” begins with the “first works”, and that is why Jesus instructs them that they need to “do the first works” in order to get back into a proper relationship with him. Now if you have ever had Jesus as your “first love”, do you remember the first works that brought this about?
  
  • “We love him, because he first loved us.” (1 John 4:19)
  • “This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.” (John 15:12-14)
  • “For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:7-8)
  Jesus first loved us, while we were yet sinners, so that his sacrificial love could save us and turn us forever away from doing sin. This is the “first work” that Jesus does in the heart of the individual once they, with a full broken heart of godly sorrow, turn completely away from their sin and ask for forgiveness.

Jesus goes on to tell them that they hate the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which he hates also. Apparently, there are a few things that Christ actually hates and sometimes its hard for many people to wrap their minds around that when they've been possibly been deceived, even if it were well meaning men who were deceived themselves. How many actually question things they read? For instance, who or what are the Nicolaitanes? If Jesus hates them, we need to hate it as well wouldn't you agree?

"The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practice adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols."

—Irenaeus, Adversus haereses, i. 26, §3

These are carnal Christians, the type who judge others when they miss a church service yet live six days a week like everyone else in the world. Because they don't truly have God's spirit in them, they are unable to walk in line with the spirit. With homosexuality being accepted in many churches, a rise in divorced preachers and deacons within the congregations, the example being set is not one that will benefit Christian families. And a little history research comes to a conclusion that this is the very same origins of St. Nicholas. Yep, that's right the same Christmas 'deity' many people sell to their children instead of keeping their eyes on Christ.

Then we have Smyrna, one of only two churches that have no fault in them. Smyrna Christians apparently had good works, suffered for those works, and were impoverished. Yet spiritually they were rich, just as Christ says. They understood that there was an enemy that would masquerade as God's people and to beware of them because they were in bed with Satan. They are told to have no fear, some would go into prison under great persecution... but if they are faithful unto death they will receive a crown of life. So you see, Jesus isn't just giving out crowns to people.. they are earned through our deeds for him. Scripture confirms that every man will be rewarded according to his works. (Romans 2:6; Revelation 22:12)

I believe this has something to do with understand the truth that the Jewish nation isn't comprised of all twelve tribes, that the ten northern tribes didn't simply disappear, and that they exist today and can be found by looking at the fulfillment of prophecy in history. There is always great persecution of this way of belief, and will probably be shown in responses to this post once enough people have read it.

The only other church spirit to not have a problem is the church of Philadelphia, or brotherly love. They hold the key of David. What is the key of David? It's also mentioned in Isaiah 22:22; "I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open." What can be opened and never shut? Understanding and knowledge! Once you are given the truth of God's word, there is nothing in the world that can change your mind. Everything that you do will be a reaction to the way you believe in God. We know there is only one right way, and we also know that there would be 'another gospel' and 'another Jesus' to watch out for. And this is why I believe that all of these spirits exist today in God's people, the spirit ebbs and flows like the wind according to Christ, and it is possible for a person to waver from one standpoint to another over time as God reveals his truth to them. Out of all the churches however, I would really hate being a Laodicean, being spewed from Christ's mouth isn't going to be good spiritually speaking. You will be easily deceived because things really don't matter to you. This is where I believe most of our denominations today are in error. They are teaching doctrines of men, allowing organized colleges to teach men to be pastors when it is God who calls and trains up his pastors. It's like salvation, you don't choose to come to repentance, God brings you to that point from where you were before.

 

[Deborah13]

I think that spiritual significance of the churches is the point of our focus. We wrestle not against flesh and blood... Thought those seven churches did exist, it is the spirit that was behind them that Christ looked at and judges in Revelation. We comprise the body of those churches today, the seven candlesticks through which Christ walks. I'm not talking of seven congregations or seven places of worship. I am talking about the mind of the believer and what they believe is truth. Look carefully here;

• The church of Ephesus apparently had good works, laboring in patience for the Lord. They despised the workers of iniquity and tested anyone who claimed to be an apostle of God. They were what some today would consider good Christians, but this is where they err.

• 
  

• Jesus told them they needed to think back to point from where they had fallen – and he had already told them in the verse 4 where that place was: “thou hast left thy first love”.
  Do you know where the place is of your “first love” with Christ Jesus? Many people (even many who claim to be “Christian”) never have known Jesus as their “first love”. For them, Jesus has always been second to something or someone else, and therefore they have to commit some sort of sin and are unable to be faithful and true to Jesus in full obedience to his Word. Sin causes them to continually be “fallen” from Jesus ever being their first love.
  
  “O israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.” (Hosea 14:1)
  
  
  [*]A “first love” begins with the “first works”, and that is why Jesus instructs them that they need to “do the first works” in order to get back into a proper relationship with him. Now if you have ever had Jesus as your “first love”, do you remember the first works that brought this about?
  

  • “We love him, because he first loved us.” (1 John 4:19)
  • “This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.” (John 15:12-14)
  • “For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:7-8)

  Jesus first loved us, while we were yet sinners, so that his sacrificial love could save us and turn us forever away from doing sin. This is the “first work” that Jesus does in the heart of the individual once they, with a full broken heart of godly sorrow, turn completely away from their sin and ask for forgiveness.

• Unless you are Richard Lehman, it appears that the above is a quote from his writings. Here is a link to those as it's helpful to read a whole article if possible. http://revelationofjesuschrist.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/are-you-fallen-from-your-first-love/

Jesus goes on to tell them that they hate the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which he hates also. Apparently, there are a few things that Christ actually hates and sometimes its hard for many people to wrap their minds around that when they've been possibly been deceived, even if it were well meaning men who were deceived themselves. How many actually question things they read?

I question most everything I read. The scriptures I don't question that they are true. I do question my own and others interpretations of those scriptures.

For instance, who or what are the Nicolaitanes? If Jesus hates them, we need to hate it as well wouldn't you agree?

"The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, [when they are represented] as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practice adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols."

—Irenaeus, Adversus haereses, i. 26, §3

These are carnal Christians, the type who judge others when they miss a church service yet live six days a week like everyone else in the world. Because they don't truly have God's spirit in them, they are unable to walk in line with the spirit. With homosexuality being accepted in many churches, a rise in divorced preachers and deacons within the congregations, the example being set is not one that will benefit Christian families. And a little history research comes to a conclusion that this is the very same origins of St. Nicholas. Yep, that's right the same Christmas 'deity' many people sell to their children instead of keeping their eyes on Christ.

That would be inaccurrate history. The Nicolas mentioned in scripture had to have lived during the 1st and a little beyond.
The man call St. Nicolas, that the legend of kindness to children and the poor that Santa Claus is based on, didn't live until the 4th century, in Lycra. He was the Bishop of Myra, in modern day Turkey. Different Nicolas then the one mention in scripture (Act 6 and Revelation 2) and by Irenaeus who died in the 3rd century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas

Then we have Smyrna, one of only two churches that have no fault in them. Smyrna Christians apparently had good works, suffered for those works, and were impoverished. Yet spiritually they were rich, just as Christ says. They understood that there was an enemy that would masquerade as God's people and to beware of them because they were in bed with Satan. They are told to have no fear, some would go into prison under great persecution... but if they are faithful unto death they will receive a crown of life. So you see, Jesus isn't just giving out crowns to people.. they are earned through our deeds for him. Scripture confirms that every man will be rewarded according to his works. (Romans 2:6; Revelation 22:12)

I believe this has something to do with understand the truth that the Jewish nation isn't comprised of all twelve tribes, that the ten northern tribes didn't simply disappear, and that they exist today and can be found by looking at the fulfillment of prophecy in history. There is always great persecution of this way of belief, and will probably be shown in responses to this post once enough people have read it.

Who are you referring to as the "Jewish nation"? The State of Israel? Or....
It's hard to comment without knowing who you are referring to.

The only other church spirit to not have a problem is the church of Philadelphia, or brotherly love. They hold the key of David. What is the key of David? It's also mentioned in Isaiah 22:22; "I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open." What can be opened and never shut? Understanding and knowledge! Once you are given the truth of God's word, there is nothing in the world that can change your mind. Everything that you do will be a reaction to the way you believe in God. We know there is only one right way, and we also know that there would be 'another gospel' and 'another Jesus' to watch out for. And this is why I believe that all of these spirits exist today in God's people, the spirit ebbs and flows like the wind according to Christ, and it is possible for a person to waver from one standpoint to another over time as God reveals his truth to them. Out of all the churches however, I would really hate being a Laodicean, being spewed from Christ's mouth isn't going to be good spiritually speaking. You will be easily deceived because things really don't matter to you. This is where I believe most of our denominations today are in error. They are teaching doctrines of men, allowing organized colleges to teach men to be pastors when it is God who calls and trains up his pastors. It's like salvation, you don't choose to come to repentance, God brings you to that point from where you were before.

I agree with you that the Lord calls who He will to be pastors, etc. However, as we see in the Bible the elders in the faith taught the younger ones who became teachers themselves. It just a matter of choosing a school that sticks as close to what the scriptures actually teach. I think that there are good ones and not so good ones. And within those schools there are teachers who actually believe the Bible is true and there are others, not so much. For me it would be what they believe the Gospel message says. If it doesn't agree with the foundation that Paul taught I'd avoid it.

 

[for_his_glory]

Deborah and Willie, thanks for the downloads, but all that plays is the welcoming intro. Oh, well. Sounds like a friendly Church and gift bags...........how cool is that

 

[for_his_glory]

God spoke this warning to two Churches in Revelations. One being the Church at Ephesus and the Church at Pergamos. The Nicolaitans were a Gentile heretic sect that converted over to Judaism to dominate others with their heretic teachings.

Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Epiphanius, and Theodoret mentioned this group, and stated that the deacon Nicolas was the author (founder) of the heresy and the sect. The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles around AD 33. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence as in eating things offered to idols. The teaching of the Nicolaitans was to dominate the people leading them astray from that of what Jesus taught and this goes against the teachings of Jesus, Matthew 20:25-28.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Act 6:5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

 

[Willie T]

Deborah and Willie, thanks for the downloads, but all that plays is the welcoming intro. Oh, well. Sounds like a friendly Church and gift bags...........how cool is that

Yeah, we give out free Bibles, too. And the preacher usually extends an invitation for visitors to come out and eat somewhere with some of us afterward.
And, we do $1 carwashes. That's a carwash where we give the driver a dollar after we wash their car.

 

[Willie T]

Deborah and Willie, thanks for the downloads, but all that plays is the welcoming intro. Oh, well. Sounds like a friendly Church and gift bags...........how cool is that

I don't know what it could be. I also mailed a download to myself at the same time I mailed yours, and what I received by email plays fine, all the way through.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't know what it could be. I also mailed a download to myself at the same time I mailed yours, and what I received by email plays fine, all the way through.

I just need a new computer or it's probably just the dial-up as I have trouble downloading MP3's and videos We live down a private lane and the telephone wires are old and brittle, but the phone company will not replace them unless they break or we lose complete service