The Day of the LORD... The Day of Jesus Christ...

[reba]

Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Asking a grammar of English question about this passage.... Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall .... does the wording of this sentence imply there is tribulation at other time in other days? Please let this be answered by some one who is willing to look at the verse from a grammar standpoint... it has been hashed over and over from the theology side..
IF any one hasn't noticed grammar is not my best subject

 

[Sinthesis]

Mat 24:28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Asking a grammar of English question about this passage.... Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall .... does the wording of this sentence imply there is tribulation at other time in other days? Please let this be answered by some one who is willing to look at the verse from a grammar standpoint... it has been hashed over and over from the theology side..
IF any one hasn't noticed grammar is not my best subject

Yes, it does imply there is tribulation at other time in other days. Otherwise it is just redundant. Jesus' words would also bring to mind, of those familiar with the book of Isaiah, the burden of Babylon at the hands of the Medes.


Thanks reba

 

[JLB]

Mat 24:28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Asking a grammar of English question about this passage.... Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall .... does the wording of this sentence imply there is tribulation at other time in other days? Please let this be answered by some one who is willing to look at the verse from a grammar standpoint... it has been hashed over and over from the theology side..
IF any one hasn't noticed grammar is not my best subject

Yes, it does imply there is tribulation at other time in other days. Otherwise it is just redundant. Jesus' words would also bring to mind, of those familiar with the book of Isaiah, the burden of Babylon at the hands of the Medes.


Thanks reba

The thing to remeber with the tribulation that Jesus referred to is unique, in that is it a great tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

That is the point of the phrase "those days".JLB

 

[Eventide]

This is an excellent point and even with it, I can't see how we can get past the fact of the LORD's own words when He said plainly that NO MAN has ascended into heaven but the Son of Man who came down from heaven.

How do you understand THAT ?

There were many 'son of mans'. Elijah, Ezekiel, Elisha, Moses, Jesus, and so on so on.

The only way these people became 'sons of man' was from the spirit from heaven that decended on them, the gift from God. So the spirit of God is the only one who has acended and decended from heaven on these prophets.
This has to be something to do with it. Its the Holy spirit.

I think I understand what you're saying here... although John 3:13 is not speaking of SPIRIT, it is speaking of MAN.

 

[Eventide]

I think I understand what you're saying here... although John 3:13 is not speaking of SPIRIT, it is speaking of MAN.

That is such a confusing peice of scripture. 'No man has ascended execpt he that come down, even the 'son of man'.

How can it not be spirit if it says 'No man'. The spirit is not a man. The spirit could be "except he that come down". When Jesus was baptised the heavens opened and the spirit come down on him.

'Even the son of man which is in heaven'. I have no idea where thats coming from. Does it mean even the son of man 'has' or 'has not'?, or is the 'Son of Man' the spirit?

When Elijah went up in whirlpool it could have been a spirit in him that went up. Not flesh and blood. Maybe Elijah dies first. Was there not enemys around at the time and it just doesnt say it in scrpipture. The spirit of God that was descended on him went back up, because to get the gift they had, they would have needed the spirit.

These other prophets and leaders were rightchess but not perfect as it states knowone is perfect and sin is passed on.

Jesus having Gods seed in Mary can make perfect so he is the 'perfect one' from all the 'Sons of Man' , that would also make him 'Son of God' and the only one who can do away with sin and be perfect and sinless like God. The fresh Adam and Eve.


Son of man just seems like a title for chosen people who the spirit decended on.

The 'son of man' has to be a spirit that is in the chosen few?

Im confused.

Kiwi,

It's not like I'm using John 3:13 in isolation to think this way... we also know that the Lord Jesus Christ is the firstborn from the dead, and that there are going to be more at His coming...

Eventually, all men will be raised, even those who are 'damned' according to the scriptures.

What about David's Tomb being with us til this day according to Peter's post resurrection/ascension preaching ?

That's important isn't it.

See... so it's a lot of things which we put together... scripture upon scripture.

 

[Eventide]

..the spirits of just men made perfect...

kiwidan,

Excellent thoughts of yours here and they made me think of this portion in Hebrews;

..but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven

I find it interesting that the author speaks of the spirits of just men made perfect, and then speaks of Jesus... iow.. not the Spirit of Christ, but Jesus..

What think ye ?

Keep it coming folks, excellent things..

 

[Eugene]

Re: these are the things which shall be hereafter...

I find it interesting that the author speaks of the spirits of just men made perfect, and then speaks of Jesus... iow.. not the Spirit of Christ, but Jesus..

Dear Brother Eventide, just a thought here as I had never put these scriptures together before, but since in Ephesians 2:10 we are the workmanship of God; a work in progress, it seems very probable to me that as the scripture below suggests; we grow from one will of God to another as we submit to His molding us into the image of Christ. Rom 8:29.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Eventide]

Re: these are the things which shall be hereafter...

Not sure if I'm following you brother... I can follow being conformed to the image of Christ although I'm not sure if or how you're connecting that to the context of my comment.

 

[Eugene]

Re: these are the things which shall be hereafter...

Not sure if I'm following you brother... I can follow being conformed to the image of Christ although I'm not sure if or how you're connecting that to the context of my comment.

I was thinking that submitting to God as He works in us to be in His perfect will was somehow a part of that process of just men being made perfect. For instance an unbeliever can never be considered a just man, so I would think it is the believer God is changing for the better, but probably in wrong context due to your question of it. It's too late at night and I've been in and out of this thread a couple times; it's time to consider I no longer realize what this thread is about if I ever did.

 

[Eventide]

Re: these are the things which shall be hereafter...

Not sure if I'm following you brother... I can follow being conformed to the image of Christ although I'm not sure if or how you're connecting that to the context of my comment.

I was thinking that submitting to God as He works in us to be in His perfect will was somehow a part of that process of just men being made perfect. For instance an unbeliever can never be considered a just man, so I would think it is the believer God is changing for the better, but probably in wrong context due to your question of it.

No, not at all... I get exactly what you mean now and it makes perfect sense.. Don't know how I missed it.

It's too late at night and I've been in and out of this thread a couple times; it's time to consider I no longer realize what this thread is about if I ever did.

IMO it's about the next most staggering event(s) in the prophetic story of stories...

The (literal) thousand year DAY of The Lord.

The Day of Jesus Christ..

It's the last Day, it's the day of His rest.. In that story of all stories...

Mind boggling events are associated with this DAY...

The church of God being caught up to meet The Lord in the air, which includes the resurrection of the dead in Christ first and then those who are alive and remain..

The nation of Israel being led to repentance and then being with child (born again) and protected in the wilderness...

Satan, the prince and power of the AIR, the Dragon, cast down to the EARTH..

The beast and false prophet having total dominion over the earth for 42 months..

The marriage of the Lamb to His wife..

The Lord coming with thousands and thousands of His saints to destroy the beast and false prophet..

The kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ...

Etc etc etc...

So I agree brother, because who does know ? Who can even begin to understand the enormity of these things which shall be hereafter in that Day, at the revelation of Jesus Christ..

 

[Eugene]

Re: these are the things which shall be hereafter...

IMO it's about the next most staggering event(s) in the prophetic story of stories...

The (literal) thousand year DAY of The Lord.

The Day of Jesus Christ..

It's the last Day, it's the day of His rest.. In that story of all stories...

Mind boggling events are associated with this DAY...

The church of God being caught up to meet The Lord in the air, which includes the resurrection of the dead in Christ first and then those who are alive and remain..

The nation of Israel being led to repentance and then being with child (born again) and protected in the wilderness...

Satan, the prince and power of the AIR, the Dragon, cast down to the EARTH..

The beast and false prophet having total dominion over the earth for 42 months..

The marriage of the Lamb to His wife..

The Lord coming with thousands and thousands of His saints to destroy the beast and false prophet..

The kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ...

Etc etc etc...

So I agree brother, because who does know ? Who can even begin to understand the enormity of these things which shall be hereafter in that Day, at the revelation of Jesus Christ..

I won't go back and attempt to find my prior posts on this thread, but I agree with all you have written above, though I think we disagree with when it starts.

To reiterate my thoughts the 1000 years begins when Jesus takes His throne in Rev 4:2 just prior to the tribulation; some of His saints with Him in Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6. John was caught in spirit to that Lord's Day and told in Rev 1:19 to write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter. I don't see a problem as Jesus puts down all that rule and authority He has been given power over, the times of the Gentiles end, and He turns back to dealing with Israel as a nation again. If there's something wrong with this I'm not worrying about it but will listen to intelligent discourse. I did not present the factors of the Bride, the great multitude, the 144,000, nor the millennium which all fit into that time. Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[Eventide]

Re: these are the things which shall be hereafter...

IMO it's about the next most staggering event(s) in the prophetic story of stories...

The (literal) thousand year DAY of The Lord.

The Day of Jesus Christ..

It's the last Day, it's the day of His rest.. In that story of all stories...

Mind boggling events are associated with this DAY...

The church of God being caught up to meet The Lord in the air, which includes the resurrection of the dead in Christ first and then those who are alive and remain..

The nation of Israel being led to repentance and then being with child (born again) and protected in the wilderness...

Satan, the prince and power of the AIR, the Dragon, cast down to the EARTH..

The beast and false prophet having total dominion over the earth for 42 months..

The marriage of the Lamb to His wife..

The Lord coming with thousands and thousands of His saints to destroy the beast and false prophet..

The kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ...

Etc etc etc...

So I agree brother, because who does know ? Who can even begin to understand the enormity of these things which shall be hereafter in that Day, at the revelation of Jesus Christ..

I won't go back and attempt to find my prior posts on this thread, but I agree with all you have written above, though I think we disagree with when it starts.

To reiterate my thoughts the 1000 years begins when Jesus takes His throne in Rev 4:2 just prior to the tribulation; some of His saints with Him in Rev 4:4 & Rev 4:6. John was caught in spirit to that Lord's Day and told in Rev 1:19 to write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter. I don't see a problem as Jesus puts down all that rule and authority He has been given power over, the times of the Gentiles end, and He turns back to dealing with Israel as a nation again. If there's something wrong with this I'm not worrying about it but will listen to intelligent discourse. I did not present the factors of the Bride, the great multitude, the 144,000, nor the millennium which all fit into that time. Blessings in Christ Jesus.

Just seeing these things as future is what I consider intelligent discourse... Lol... As to pin pointing when that day actually begins, I have no idea but would agree with you that it's in the Rev 4 context.

Amen brother !

 

[JLB]

Re: these are the things which shall be hereafter...

Just seeing these things as future is what I consider intelligent discourse... Lol... As to pin pointing when that day actually begins, I have no idea.

:amen

Please consider how this event fits in the time line, as pertaining to the Day of the Lord.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34


Thanks.

JLB

 

[Eventide]

Re: these are the things which shall be hereafter...

Just seeing these things as future is what I consider intelligent discourse... Lol... As to pin pointing when that day actually begins, I have no idea.

:amen

Please consider how this event fits in the time line, as pertaining to the Day of the Lord.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34


Thanks.

JLB

JLB, since this is speaking of His coming in glory, it's certainly in that DAY, at the revelation of Jesus Christ. IMO this would be the coming described in Rev 19 and elsewhere, with thousands and thousands of His saints.

 

[JLB]

Re: these are the things which shall be hereafter...

Just seeing these things as future is what I consider intelligent discourse... Lol... As to pin pointing when that day actually begins, I have no idea.

:amen

Please consider how this event fits in the time line, as pertaining to the Day of the Lord.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34


Thanks.

JLB

JLB, since this is speaking of His coming in glory, it's certainly in that DAY, at the revelation of Jesus Christ. IMO this would be the coming described in Rev 19 and elsewhere, with thousands and thousands of His saints.

Yes sir!

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


JLB

 

[thethinker]

Can some one show me where the rapture is in the Old Testament

Paul saw the resurrection AND the rapture in Hosea 13:14.

 

[n2thelight]

Can some one show me where the rapture is in the Old Testament

Paul saw the resurrection AND the rapture in Hosea 13:14.

And he (Paul) saw this when?Scripture please,as that verse has nothing whatsoever to do with a rapture........

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Re: these are the things which shall be hereafter...

Just seeing these things as future is what I consider intelligent discourse... Lol... As to pin pointing when that day actually begins, I have no idea.

:amen

Please consider how this event fits in the time line, as pertaining to the Day of the Lord.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34


Thanks.

JLB

JLB, since this is speaking of His coming in glory, it's certainly in that DAY, at the revelation of Jesus Christ. IMO this would be the coming described in Rev 19 and elsewhere, with thousands and thousands of His saints.

Yes sir!

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


JLB

:amen

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

I think I understand what you're saying here... although John 3:13 is not speaking of SPIRIT, it is speaking of MAN.

That is such a confusing peice of scripture. 'No man has ascended execpt he that come down, even the 'son of man'.

How can it not be spirit if it says 'No man'. The spirit is not a man. The spirit could be "except he that come down". When Jesus was baptised the heavens opened and the spirit come down on him.

'Even the son of man which is in heaven'. I have no idea where thats coming from. Does it mean even the son of man 'has' or 'has not'?, or is the 'Son of Man' the spirit?

When Elijah went up in whirlpool it could have been a spirit in him that went up. Not flesh and blood. Maybe Elijah dies first. Was there not enemys around at the time and it just doesnt say it in scrpipture. The spirit of God that was descended on him went back up, because to get the gift they had, they would have needed the spirit.

These other prophets and leaders were rightchess but not perfect as it states knowone is perfect and sin is passed on.

Jesus having Gods seed in Mary can make perfect so he is the 'perfect one' from all the 'Sons of Man' , that would also make him 'Son of God' and the only one who can do away with sin and be perfect and sinless like God. The fresh Adam and Eve.


Son of man just seems like a title for chosen people who the spirit decended on.

The 'son of man' has to be a spirit that is in the chosen few?

Im confused.

Just a few points to help your understanding of who and where you were before you were born in flesh


3 earth heaven ages rev 12 satan in the 1st/2nd won't be in the 3rd
The world was not made void it became void Gen 1:1-1:2 anons of time gap
satan sinned and fell, taking a 1/3rd of heaven with him
God loved us not to destroy us but the world cities that were Jer 4 II pet 3
Here we are, born of woman/flesh to learn the good and reject the evil
1000s of cities found under the oceans, how would that be possible?
the Katabol=falling of satan / foundation of the "world"
the birth pains=earth longing to return to the form it was before
when Jesus Christ appears the heavens and earth will be on fire II pet 3

the evil angels rather then be born of women choose to come and seduce women
gen 6/jude

 

[thethinker]

Can some one show me where the rapture is in the Old Testament

thethinker replied:

Paul saw the resurrection AND the rapture in Hosea 13:14.

Then n2thelight said:

And he (Paul) saw this when?Scripture please,as that verse has nothing whatsoever to do with a rapture........

Paul said that Hosea 13:14 comes to pass when the Church is resurrected AND raptured.

For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, AND we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.â€

55 “O Death, where is your sting?
O Grave, where is your victory?"

The scripture Paul quoted is in italicized bold. It is from Hosea 13:14. He explicitly said that Hosea 13:14 comes to pass when the dead are raised and the living are changed (the rapture). He said that the grave has been defeated at that time. This has reference to both the dead and the living. The dead are released from the grave and the living bypass it.

Okay, I have given you scripture as you demanded. Now what will you do with it?