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The "Elect"

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Rollo Tamasi

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John 3:17 NIV
For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

One point of Calvinism is that Jesus died only for a chosen group, His "Elect", not for the sins of the entire world.
This teaching has spread through various churches over the years.
I believe that Jesus died on the cross for all sins for all people, and anyone who wants to can accept him as Lord and Savior and be born again.

The elect, the chosen, and the predestined are all used by Calvinists to prove their case.
Can this be true or are they misinterpreting each and every verse?
 
John 3:17 NIV
For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

One point of Calvinism is that Jesus died only for a chosen group, His "Elect", not for the sins of the entire world.
This teaching has spread through various churches over the years.
I believe that Jesus died on the cross for all sins for all people, and anyone who wants to can accept him as Lord and Savior and be born again.

The elect, the chosen, and the predestined are all used by Calvinists to prove their case.
Can this be true or are they misinterpreting each and every verse?
The word "elect" occurs several time in Scriptures.

Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness, Titus 1:1 (ESV)

However, Calvinists definitely get the idea behind the concept wrong.

We need to be careful that we don't put everything into a 16th Century context, and then look at the NT text in light of the Calvinism and Arminianism controversy. Rather, we should look through the eyes of those who wrote these words, who were of course 1st Century Jews.

Throughout the Old Testament, the Jews didn't concern themselves at all with the idea of God electing individuals to salvation and not others (neither did they concern themselves with this in the NT). What they did refer to quite often was the idea that they collectively were a chosen covenant people.

“For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the LORD set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but it is because the LORD loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt." Deuteronomy 7:6-8 (ESV)

Notice, the emphasis here is not individual election to salvation, but a corporate election on the basis of a Covenant made. There was also a reason behind why God chose them (which denies the idea of unconditional election), which was because God was keeping an oath he swore to their fathers. Many of the Jews therefore saw themselves as part of the Covenant Community, the chosen people of God, on the basis of their being descendants of Abraham. Yet this is not precisely what the text says.

“And because you listen to these rules and keep and do them, the LORD your God will keep with you the covenant and the steadfast love that he swore to your fathers. He will love you, bless you, and multiply you. He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground, your grain and your wine and your oil, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock, in the land that he swore to your fathers to give you. Deuteronomy 7:12-13 (ESV)

In the Old Covenant, it was on the basis of their keeping the "rules" that the God would keep the Covenant with them. The Law we learned though in the NT was just a guardian (a baby-sitter of sorts) that was to keep them in line until the coming of the Messiah, who is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe.

I say all that to say this. When we think about election, we should think about it not in 16th Century terms of predestination to who salvation, trying to ask a question of why one person believes and the other does not, Paul does not concern himself with such things. Rather, he is concerned with faithfulness of God to his Covenant People, and his plan to have mercy upon all through the coming of the Messiah, in which the Covenant People of God have been redefined and summed up in the Jesus. This was God's plan all along, that before the foundation of the world he chose to have a people of all nations in Christ.

We in Christ therefore are the chosen people of God, because we are truly the children of Abraham through faith, so that the promise (God originally gave) may depend upon grace. A family that God has created to be his agents in the world and for the restoration of the world.

There is a lot to say on this subject, and I am willing to answer any questions you might have.

Blessings,
DI
 
John 3:17 NIV
For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

One point of Calvinism is that Jesus died only for a chosen group, His "Elect", not for the sins of the entire world.
This teaching has spread through various churches over the years.
I believe that Jesus died on the cross for all sins for all people, and anyone who wants to can accept him as Lord and Savior and be born again.

The elect, the chosen, and the predestined are all used by Calvinists to prove their case.
Can this be true or are they misinterpreting each and every verse?

I agree allen. God desires (all) people to come to faith in Christ. The (elect) are born again christians and is talking about you. It's important to understand also that, before you were the elect, you made (a choice) to accept Jesus as Savior, (and then) you were given the name (elect). It is by His grace and (through) our faith that you are saved. The choice that you made was (through) your faith. If you ever live through the seven year great tribulation, here's some comforting words...

Matt 24::30-31 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthc will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
 
John 3:17 NIV
For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

One point of Calvinism is that Jesus died only for a chosen group, His "Elect", not for the sins of the entire world.
This teaching has spread through various churches over the years.
I believe that Jesus died on the cross for all sins for all people, and anyone who wants to can accept him as Lord and Savior and be born again.

The elect, the chosen, and the predestined are all used by Calvinists to prove their case.
Can this be true or are they misinterpreting each and every verse?
I am getting back to this site after a very long time! I remember some names..Hopefully, I will stay here for some more time..

I am not a Calvinist.. But I do believe in pre-destination and freewill.. Limited atonement somewhat ties back to the other 4 points of TULIP.. The argument is if God predestined the elect, why would Jesus shed His blood for people who are not going to accept Him.. There is no question on the sufficiency of the blood.. It is definitely enough to redeem every man the world has ever seen..

Personally, I think Jesus shed his Blood for everyone.. Anyone who accepts Him will be redeemed.. However, the elect are predestined.. I don't necessarily believe in limited atonement.. I don't have a problem with someone believing in that as well.. Because we all know, the blood is not going to redeem everyone..
 
I am getting back to this site after a very long time! I remember some names..Hopefully, I will stay here for some more time..

I am not a Calvinist.. But I do believe in pre-destination and freewill.. Limited atonement somewhat ties back to the other 4 points of TULIP.. The argument is if God predestined the elect, why would Jesus shed His blood for people who are not going to accept Him.. There is no question on the sufficiency of the blood.. It is definitely enough to redeem every man the world has ever seen..

Personally, I think Jesus shed his Blood for everyone.. Anyone who accepts Him will be redeemed.. However, the elect are predestined.. I don't necessarily believe in limited atonement.. I don't have a problem with someone believing in that as well.. Because we all know, the blood is not going to redeem everyone..
I suppose everyone who embraces the Bible believes in Predestination and free will (some outright reject the idea), but what we believe about those terms greatly differs. I don't take predestination to mean the sovereign decision by God to elect certain individuals to salvation and not others.

I'm therefore a little confused by your statements. Do you believe that Christ shed his blood for every person without exception, but God only then intends to save his predestined elect? Or that others outside of the elect can be saved since Christ's death would be sufficient to save them?
 
John 3:17 NIV
For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
One point of Calvinism is that Jesus died only for a chosen group, His "Elect", not for the sins of the entire world.
This teaching has spread through various churches over the years.
I believe that Jesus died on the cross for all sins for all people, and anyone who wants to can accept him as Lord and Savior and be born again.
The elect, the chosen, and the predestined are all used by Calvinists to prove their case.
Can this be true or are they misinterpreting each and every verse?

in my opinion, they don't understand any verse. but that's same for most of the -ists and -isms of men; not just them.

remember calvin was, by all reports, an unrepentant sinner himself(never saved). and what happens to unrepentant sinners ?
(the bibliographies and his followers reported this! ... don't have a clue and don't care how they excuse it).
 
God's foreknowledge (does not) affect our free will. We call this, 'The Great Mystery of God's Mind'.
 
John 3:17 NIV
For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

One point of Calvinism is that Jesus died only for a chosen group, His "Elect", not for the sins of the entire world.
This teaching has spread through various churches over the years.
I believe that Jesus died on the cross for all sins for all people, and anyone who wants to can accept him as Lord and Savior and be born again.

The elect, the chosen, and the predestined are all used by Calvinists to prove their case.
Can this be true or are they misinterpreting each and every verse?

I believe the Calvinists usage of all three of those term are either wrong or out of context. I also believe the used in conjunction with Penal Atonement which I believe is wrong.
 
I have a serious problem with freewill doctrine. Fundamentally I see no choice but to serve God. There is no other living God. There is no goodness without God. The choice is an illusion. Note that the will is our reasoning which is only as good as our ignorance and knowledge of Truth. An ignorant will is self-destructive. The will regarding moral/immoral behavior is compelled by the lust of the flesh to sin and only restrained by the Love that is God. Without God's Love (Word) in us, we would be utterly depraved. Our righteousness was ever by faith.

I often hear people say the will is free, not constrained or compelled by someone or something else. People say men can choose God only if they have the option to reject God. Does anyone else see this is not a very valid argument? They bring forth scripture such as "choose this day whom you will serve", but overlook "if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord". They use scriptures like "I set before you Life and death, blessing and cursing, therefore choose life" so as to say, "see we have a free choice", when in fact God has given an ultimatum. Ultimately, the issue is not ever whether we can choose or reject God. The issue is why would we ever reject God? Why would we ever distrust our own maker. The way I see it, to even ponder whether to distrust God is not freewill, it is the tempter. It is vanity. The only power in man to sincerely choose God, is God.
 
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John 3:17 NIV
For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him

I believe that Jesus died on the cross for all sins for all people, and anyone who wants to can accept him as Lord and Savior and be born again.

I agree with you and would add a supporting scripture.

YLT
Joh 3:14 `And as Moses did lift up the serpent in the wilderness, so it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,
Joh 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
 
The elect of God are those who have through repentance and confessing Christ as Lord and Savior, which means anyone and everyone is given opportunity to reconcile back to God by His grace.

1Pe 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
1Pe 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
 
John 3:17 NIV
For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

One point of Calvinism is that Jesus died only for a chosen group, His "Elect", not for the sins of the entire world.
This teaching has spread through various churches over the years.
I believe that Jesus died on the cross for all sins for all people, and anyone who wants to can accept him as Lord and Savior and be born again.

The elect, the chosen, and the predestined are all used by Calvinists to prove their case.
Can this be true or are they misinterpreting each and every verse?

For a very simple reply, There are Christians that God chooses, and there are Christians that the Holy Spirit woes and they choose. Two types of Christians. The ones God chooses, can't undo what God does OSAS. The ones the Holy Spirit woes, and they choose, can walk away, and be apostate.
 
For a very simple reply, There are Christians that God chooses, and there are Christians that the Holy Spirit woes and they choose. Two types of Christians. The ones God chooses, can't undo what God does OSAS. The ones the Holy Spirit woes, and they choose, can walk away, and be apostate.

Chopper please what scriptures show this to you or what theologians teach this doctrine?
 
Chopper please what scriptures show this to you or what theologians teach this doctrine?

I have taught this doctrine for about 10 years. I have posted Scriptures on this theology a number of times in different threads, I can't help but believe you have read some. My position is 4 point Calvinism, and General Call of the Gospel. Since 2004, when I originated the "General Call of the Gospel" no other Salvation theologian had espoused that phrase except me. Since then, because I have preacher/teacher friends all over the USA, and this theology I put on Facebook for some of them, others are using my explanation because it's the only logical and Scriptural one out there.
 
For a very simple reply, There are Christians that God chooses, and there are Christians that the Holy Spirit woes and they choose. Two types of Christians. The ones God chooses, can't undo what God does OSAS. The ones the Holy Spirit woes, and they choose, can walk away, and be apostate.

If God chooses certain Christians and then uses the Holy Spirit to woe the others doesn't this make God a respecter of person. The word Christian was first used in Antioch, Acts 11:26, to describe the disciples of Christ, such as we who are his disciples that have been founded on Christ based by his doctrines that were designed for all and centers in Salvation that produces change, 1Cor 3:10, 12; 15:1-4; Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 4:12; 1Cor 6:11, Acts 11:26.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Act 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
 
I have taught this doctrine for about 10 years. I have posted Scriptures on this theology a number of times in different threads, I can't help but believe you have read some. My position is 4 point Calvinism, and General Call of the Gospel. Since 2004, when I originated the "General Call of the Gospel" no other Salvation theologian had espoused that phrase except me. Since then, because I have preacher/teacher friends all over the USA, and this theology I put on Facebook for some of them, others are using my explanation because it's the only logical and Scriptural one out there.
I've never heard this before. Why do some get woes? What is different about their beliefs?
 
I have taught this doctrine for about 10 years. I have posted Scriptures on this theology a number of times in different threads, I can't help but believe you have read some. My position is 4 point Calvinism, and General Call of the Gospel. Since 2004, when I originated the "General Call of the Gospel" no other Salvation theologian had espoused that phrase except me. Since then, because I have preacher/teacher friends all over the USA, and this theology I put on Facebook for some of them, others are using my explanation because it's the only logical and Scriptural one out there.

Sorry I can't remember everything.
No worries though, go in peace.
 

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