The Eternal Kingdom/Reign of Jesus Christ

[Randy]

exactly what does this mean?

It means as was written - "the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him"

 

[SolaScriptura]

It means as was written - "the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him"

"ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ εὐδόκησεν πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα κατοικῆσαι"

Literally, "because in Him was pleased all the fullness to dwell"

Which is fully understood from the next chapter:

"For in him the whole fullness of Deity dwells bodily" (verse 9)

θεότητος, "the Divine Nature, the state of being God". Jesus Christ being FULLY GOD, in the highest sense of the word. In exactly the same way The Father and Holy Spirit are.

 

[Randy]

"ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ εὐδόκησεν πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα κατοικῆσαι"

Literally, "because in Him was pleased all the fullness to dwell"

Which is fully understood from the next chapter:

"For in him the whole fullness of Deity dwells bodily" (verse 9)

θεότητος, "the Divine Nature, the state of being God". Jesus Christ being FULLY GOD, in the highest sense of the word. In exactly the same way The Father and Holy Spirit are.

because in him [it did please all the fulness] to dwell - from the will of another
Care to guess who the other is?

I was speaking of Col 1:19

I have viewed many translations. You seem to elevate your take above them all.

 

[SolaScriptura]

because in him [it did please all the fulness] to dwell - from the will of another
Care to guess who the other is?

I was speaking of Col 1:19

I have viewed many translations. You seem to elevate your take above them all.

I have given the Greek text, and the literal English!

 

[Randy]

I have given the Greek text, and the literal English!

Did they not also have the greek?
Col 1:19
YLT
because in him it did [please all the fulness] to tabernacle -from the will of another
NRSV
For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell -from the will of another
NASB
For [a]it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the [b]fullness to dwell in Him- from the will of another
[a] or all the fullness was pleased to dwell
fullness of deity


Setting aside why a God who always was would not already be that fullness who do you think is the other who willed the fullness to dwell in Jesus?

 

[Quantrill]

I am stating I don't know with any certainty that the Father alway existed because He never stated that. He stated no God was formed before Him. He is the beginning and the end. I do know with certainty that if the Father has a beginning it could not be from any other being.

(Gen. 1:1) "In the beginning God created...."

I guess you didn't get very far into the Book.

Quantrill

 

[Randy]

(Gen. 1:1) "In the beginning God created...."

I guess you didn't get very far into the Book.

Quantrill

Jesus was before the world began. He is before all things. By Him all things were made.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Jesus was before the world began. He is before all things. By Him all things were made.

Indeed, when Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created...", the Hebrew "Elohim", which is masculine, plural, means, The Father, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit", equally Created the entire universes. This is clear from Genesis 1:26, "Let US Make man in OUR Image...after OUR Likeness". Interesting in the Jewish Targum Jerusalem, this reads, "And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them".

 

[SolaScriptura]

Did they not also have the greek?
Col 1:19
YLT
because in him it did [please all the fulness] to tabernacle -from the will of another
NRSV
For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell -from the will of another
NASB
For [a]it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the [b]fullness to dwell in Him- from the will of another
[a] or all the fullness was pleased to dwell
fullness of deity


Setting aside why a God who always was would not already be that fullness who do you think is the other who willed the fullness to dwell in Jesus?

Colossians 1:19 in the Greek reads:

ὅτι because
ἐν in
αὐτῷ Him
εὐδόκησεν was pleased
πᾶν all
τὸ πλήρωμα the fullness
κατοικῆσαι to dwell

This is the literal order of the Greek text, and the corresponding English

 

[Randy]

Colossians 1:19 in the Greek reads:

ὅτι because
ἐν in
αὐτῷ Him
εὐδόκησεν was pleased
πᾶν all
τὸ πλήρωμα the fullness
κατοικῆσαι to dwell

This is the literal order of the Greek text, and the corresponding English

Do you know greek or are you using software?

For ALL the translations show it pleased the fullness to dwell in Him. As Jesus testfied the Father is in Him. There is a difference in being that fullness in oneself than having that fullness given to dwell in oneself by the will of another.

What is seen from those who know greek was added. - From the will of another
KJV
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

was pleased is shown in your version as well. To dwell in Him. The only other at that point in history who was pleased before all things was the Father.

The Father was pleased that in Him (Jesus) the fullness should dwell is a accurate understanding.

There is a reason that Jesus calls the Father His God. For the Father defined Jesus's being.

The Father is greater.

 

[Randy]

Indeed, when Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created...", the Hebrew "Elohim", which is masculine, plural, means, The Father, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit", equally Created the entire universes. This is clear from Genesis 1:26, "Let US Make man in OUR Image...after OUR Likeness". Interesting in the Jewish Targum Jerusalem, this reads, "And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them".

I believe this
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

I believe this
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

I do not believe Jesus always was.

So I agree in part

Begotten of the Father before all worlds but not made.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Do you know greek or are you using software?

For ALL the translations show it pleased the fullness to dwell in Him. As Jesus testfied the Father is in Him. There is a difference in being that fullness in oneself than having that fullness given to dwell in oneself by the will of another.

What is seen from those who know greek was added. - From the will of another
KJV
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

was pleased is shown in your version as well. To dwell in Him. The only other at that point in history who was pleased before all things was the Father.

The Father was pleased that in Him (Jesus) the fullness should dwell is a accurate understanding.

There is a reason that Jesus calls the Father His God. For the Father defined Jesus's being.

The Father is greater.

I started study of NT/Classical Greek way back in 1983!

 

[SolaScriptura]

I do not believe Jesus always was

you mean that you do not believe in the eternal existence of Jesus Christ? So He is a created being? Are you a Jehovah's Witnesses, or like?

 

[Randy]

you mean that you do not believe in the eternal existence of Jesus Christ? So He is a created being? Are you a Jehovah's Witnesses, or like?

No I am not a JW. But yes I believe Jesus, His spirit, was formed by the Father as the first of His works. I see Jesus as always being the Son. A son who is before all things. To me Jesus is Gods firstborn and the beginning of the creation of God.

So is Jesus God?
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.

 

[Randy]

I started study of NT/Classical Greek way back in 1983!

The "was pleased" shows the will of another.

 

[Quantrill]

Jesus was before the world began. He is before all things. By Him all things were made.

What does that have to do with my comment?

Quantrill

 

[Randy]

What does that have to do with my comment?

Quantrill

The comment about Genesis about the creation? You could put it together. I have faith in you.
What "God" created HE created through Jesus, by Jesus and for Jesus. Jesus was involved. He was the craftsman at God's side.


Who sits on the throne? Would that be the Father the one Jesus calls the only true God and His God?

Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”

 

[Quantrill]

The comment about Genesis about the creation? You could put it together. I have faith in you.
What "God" created HE created through Jesus, by Jesus and for Jesus. Jesus was involved. He was the craftsman at God's side.


Who sits on the throne? Would that be the Father the one Jesus calls the only true God and His God?

Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”

I was responding to your comment in post #(120) that you were unsure that God always existed. (Gen. 1:1) declares that God has always existed. 'In the beginning God' That God created, places God before the Creation.

Quantrill

 

[Randy]

I was responding to your comment in post #(120) that you were unsure that God always existed. (Gen. 1:1) declares that God has always existed. 'In the beginning God' That God created, places God before the Creation.

Quantrill

yes, Hence
Jesus was before the world began. He is before all things

Genesis shows God at the beginning of the creation and the creator. Jesus as well. God is older than His creation but I don't know that He always existed. I do know if the Father has a beginning it couldn't be by any other being as He is the beginning and the end.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Do you know greek or are you using software?

For ALL the translations show it pleased the fullness to dwell in Him. As Jesus testfied the Father is in Him. There is a difference in being that fullness in oneself than having that fullness given to dwell in oneself by the will of another.

What is seen from those who know greek was added. - From the will of another
KJV
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

was pleased is shown in your version as well. To dwell in Him. The only other at that point in history who was pleased before all things was the Father.

The Father was pleased that in Him (Jesus) the fullness should dwell is a accurate understanding.

There is a reason that Jesus calls the Father His God. For the Father defined Jesus's being.

The Father is greater.

And the Father says to Jesus Christ, "Your throne O God is forever and ever...therefore O God, your God..." (Hebrews 1:8-9)

The Father commands the Worship of Jesus Christ, Hebrews 1:6

The Father tells Jesus Christ that He is the actual Creator of all things, Hebrews 1:10-12; compare with Psalm 102:24-27

In Revelation 5:13-14, ALL that is true of the Father, is equally true for Jesus Christ, and They are BOTH WORSHIPPED TOGETHER!

As God, The Father is not "greater" than Jesus Christ; as the God-Man, while on earth, till the end of this present world, Jesus made Himself "subject" to the Father, though still equal to Him.