The Law of God. OT. Applicable Today?

[Doulos Iesou]

Sorry, I misread your post. What I meant was that Paul told the Gentiles in the first century to continue to offer at least some sacrifices, including the Passover sacrifice. The Passover lamb was not an atontement for sin. It was a peace offering. Peace offerings were not required, but were completely voluntary. My understanding is that such voluntary offerings would be allowed for Gentile Christians, if they had access to the temple and there were priests to make the offerings. They would however not be required. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

The TOG​

Yes, this was the sacrifice they were to give.

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Romans 12:1 (ESV)

Christians were not to do animal sacrifices, in Hebrews the author explains that these were simply a sacrifice and shadow.

(which is symbolic for the present age). According to this arrangement, gifts and sacrifices are offered that cannot perfect the conscience of the worshiper, but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation. Hebrews 9:9-10 (ESV)

These regulations imposed by the Law of Moses were only until the time of reformation, which is the coming of the Messiah who is Jesus.

For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Hebrews 10:1 (ESV)

If the Law, particularly these rites and rituals were but a shadow of the good things to come, then why would Paul or the other Apostles ask Christians to perform these sacrifices?

I recommend you study Hebrews, where the author talks about the insufficiency of the OT Sacrificial system and the Supremacy of Christ's New Covenant.

Blessings,
DI

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

....... Are we released from the Law?........

si je sa we ar to be li li ch, le lo at it th wa



(since jesus said we are to be like little children, let's look at it this way)

for someone 20 or 40 years old, driving to work six days a week and resting on the seventh because you live in Israel and were raised according to Scripture,
but then you get 'saved' ......
do you still drive to work six days a week ? or do you start walking because nothin is allowed in heaven that pollutes ?
do you still stop at the red lights, and stop at the stop signs, and pay attention to the other traffic signs/laws; ?
or,
since you're "saved" , do you get to drive all over the road, either side and in the middle either way ?
do you get to run other drivers off the road and bump into their vehicles, and run over things if they get in your way ?
do you get to drive in the dark of night without headlights on ? and without POI (proof of insurance) since, after all, now you're "saved" ?!!

yes, this is a little silly. but think about it honestly. why rebel against God's Law ? do you start breaking His Law willy nilly because JESUS DIED FOR YOU ?!

sounds silly, weird, strange, doesn't it ?

Jesus kept God's Law, and Perfectly. He told His disciples to do the same as Himself, and showed them how. So, if you belong to Jesus, do as He said and does. If you REALLY follow Jesus, then FOLLOW JESUS; listen to Him. He is trustworthy. No one else is.

The commandments of God are not burdensome (they're not hard).

From my understanding the Torah was written for the Jewish people. It falls under the Old Covenant.
If I'm wrong, someone correct me.
.

what is Torah depends somewhat on context and on the speakers meaning.
in it's fullness and completeness, Torah is everything, every Word of God, proceeding from God's mouth, today, to His children, for their comfort and life and instruction and protection and nurture and discipline and correction and direction to go / decisions to make in REAL LIFE.
see the thread "Torah" about Torah. "Torah Flows from God constantly" (I forget the title and location of the thread - I'll look) (here it is >> http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...o-his-own-sons-so-they-know-what-to-do.53849/
)
(that's the best living complete modern ancient description of TORAH I've found in over 700 years)


this is a good example of the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus >>>>>> (torah today)
Matthew 16:24-26
The Message (MSG)
24-26 Then Jesus went to work on his disciples. “Anyone who intends to come with me has to let me lead. You’re not in the driver’s seat; I am. Don’t run from suffering; embrace it. Follow me and I’ll show you how. Self-help is no help at all. Self-sacrifice is the way, my way, to finding yourself, your true self. What kind of deal is it to get everything you want but lose yourself? What could you ever trade your soul for?

 

[for_his_glory]

The only laws that were done away with or fulfilled were that of the Temple and the sacrifices as the physical Temple and it's sacrifices no longer exist under grace by Christ fulfillment of them, Matthew 5:17,18. We are now that temple that the Holy Spirit dwells in, not our flesh for that will turn back to the dust of the ground and will never enter the kingdom of God, but that of our spirit making union with that of Gods Spirit through His grace that is freely given, not by works, but as a fee gift of Gods love, Mark 7:14-23; 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 6:19; Ephesians 2:8-18.

The books of the NT are not part of the Hebrew scriptures (Torah or the Tanakh), but that of instruction of Gods righteousness as God has given first to the Hebrew a new covenant of grace and then extended His grace to those outside of Israel (Gentiles) the same free gift of His grace, Romans 15:16. When we being that of a Gentile nation partake in that of Christ life, death and resurrection our inner man (spirit, not this flesh) is renewed by that of Gods Holy Spirit, John 3:5, 6, as we are led by the Holy Spirit to guide us and teach us all truths, John 14:26, but we are still under the moral laws of Gods commandments that are written upon our hearts that we need to keep until that of Christ return.

There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow that light of Christ shines in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

 

[Deborah13]

The only laws that were done away with or fulfilled were that of the Temple and the sacrifices as the physical Temple and it's sacrifices no longer exist under grace by Christ fulfillment of them, Matthew 5:17,18. We are now that temple that the Holy Spirit dwells in, not our flesh for that will turn back to the dust of the ground and will never enter the kingdom of God, but that of our spirit making union with that of Gods Spirit through His grace that is freely given, not by works, but as a fee gift of Gods love, Mark 7:14-23; 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 6:19; Ephesians 2:8-18.

The books of the NT are not part of the Hebrew scriptures (Torah or the Tanakh), but that of instruction of Gods righteousness as God has given first to the Hebrew a new covenant of grace and then extended His grace to those outside of Israel (Gentiles) the same free gift of His grace, Romans 15:16. When we being that of a Gentile nation partake in that of Christ life, death and resurrection our inner man (spirit, not this flesh) is renewed by that of Gods Holy Spirit, John 3:5, 6, as we are led by the Holy Spirit to guide us and teach us all truths, John 14:26, but we are still under the moral laws of Gods commandments that are written upon our hearts that we need to keep until that of Christ return.

There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow that light of Christ shines in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Now you have confused me. Where in the OT before Moses Law do you see all these laws?

"prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry"

Most of these are only seen in Moses Law.
You do realize that under Moses Law men could have more than one wife? It was not forbidden and Moses Law makes previsions for the first wife to protect her from neglect.
In the NT Jesus dealt with that. Most people think that Moses just allowed it and it's not in the law. When the fact the law could have just as easily said a man cannot have more than one wife but it doesn't.
Did the Mormons get it right?

imo Jesus law, the law of the Spirit goes so far beyond Moses Law that those who live by OT law miss the boat. Moses Law says love your fellow Hebrew that is in the same faith with you and those "within your gates". Jesus says love your enemy. Your enemy is not within your gates.

 

[for_his_glory]

Now you have confused me. Where in the OT before Moses Law do you see all these laws?

"prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry"

Most of these are only seen in Moses Law.
You do realize that under Moses Law men could have more than one wife? It was not forbidden and Moses Law makes previsions for the first wife to protect her from neglect.
In the NT Jesus dealt with that. Most people think that Moses just allowed it and it's not in the law. When the fact the law could have just as easily said a man cannot have more than one wife but it doesn't.
Did the Mormons get it right?

imo Jesus law, the law of the Spirit goes so far beyond Moses Law that those who live by OT law miss the boat. Moses Law says love your fellow Hebrew that is in the same faith with you and those "within your gates". Jesus says love your enemy. Your enemy is not within your gates.

In Romans 5: 12-14, Paul is discussing the time period between Adam and Moses. Sin entered the world through one man (Adam). The penalty of sin is death, and Paul tells us that death entered humanity through Adam. All humans, except for John the Baptist and Jesus Christ, have sinned, Rom. 3:23, and death, therefore, has power over everyone. In verse 13, Paul uses the word law in two different senses. One law was given through Moses, but before that law was given, a more fundamental law existed. Between the time of Adam and Moses, everyone sinned. They were ignoring God, going their own ways, doing things God did not want them to do. God's law existed, even though it had not been written down, and everyone was transgressing it. Therefore, death ruled over them all, even if they did not break a specific command in the way that Adam did. Adam and Eve should have obeyed, but they acted selfishly, and they sinned. They wanted wisdom, but they tried to take it for themselves instead of receiving it legitimately. The result was death for them and all their descendants. All human beings have a selfishness that predisposes them to sin. Everyone sins, and everyone needs the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, as Paul explains in Romans 5.

Cain had a built-in sense of right and wrong. He knew that his attitude toward his brother was wrong. God told Cain to resist the sinful nature, but instead he allowed it to rule over him, and he murdered his brother. This was a sin, even though no written law said it was. All normal humans have a conscience, a natural inbuilt sense of right and wrong. This is what Paul refers to in Romans 2:14-15. By nature, God has written a moral sense, a law, into human hearts. Their understanding of right and wrong is not perfect, but every sane person has at least a basic concept of right and wrong, of love and selfishness. Although everyone falls short, some people do have good behavior as compared to others. By nature, they do things that are required in God's law — not the rituals of Moses, but the more general requirements of the law that existed before Moses.

Although many people try to do what they think to be right, none is perfect. Many others choose to live selfishly, violating the standards of their societies. The biblical story tells us that people became more and more violent, and God destroyed them with a flood, Gen. 6:11-13. After the flood, he gave an additional warning about murder, Gen. 9:5-6. He also established a covenant or agreement with Noah, promising that he would not destroy the earth with a flood, verses 8-11. Abraham believed God, and he was therefore judged to be in a right relationship with God even though he was not perfect. If Abraham believed God's astounding promise, then he also had enough faith to do whatever God asked. Even when God's command seemed to threaten God's promise to him, Abraham was willing to obey God. But it was the faith, not the obedience, that was counted for righteousness. The attitude of heart was considered more important than the result.

 

[Deborah13]

As Christians we are called to a higher law than Moses Law.
It is not Moses Law that is written on our hearts and minds. Moses Law does not fulfill the law of the Spirit but the law of the Spirit fulfills Moses Law (a shadow) and goes beyond it.

 

[Ryan]

here's a can of worms for you brothers and sisters. Are we released from the Law? Is the OT and the Torah even applicable to the modern New Testament church? Some say no, some say yes. Can we connect the old testament to the new? Should we even bother reading the Torah?

I say yes, brothers and sisters. Let me show you how I connected them. Let's start in the new Testament.

Matthew 25:1-13
1 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

6 “And at midnight a cry was heard:‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!’ 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming./

I think that the oil for the lamps must be truth. Oil was used to light the Minora. The first and foremost use of oil was to light the lamps. Light of the minora represents truth. Who is the light of the world? None other than the Messiah, Yeshua (The Word). (1 John 1:1, the Word became flesh). What was the Word in the first century when there was no new Testament yet? The only Word of God to a first century Jew was the Torah, Prophets, and the Tanach..The Word of Elohim. So could it be that the parable of the 10 virgins was as simple as they all had lamps (a religious system) but only 5 had enough truth (Torah, truth) to last through the night. Truth is always depicted as light, lies are darkness...

Ok, on to "I do not know you"... Matthew 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who work iniquity!’ (same phrase as in Matthew 25:11) "I do not know you" is defined in Matthew 7 as those who work iniquity. Iniquity...off to Strongs...;)

Iniquity G458
ἀνομία
anomia
an-om-ee'-ah
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness./

So there you have it. Also, righteousness is defined in both Greek and Hebrew as those who follow the divine law of God. So grace notwithstanding, we are to keep gods law and the Torah. You bet brothers and sisters, we have one book there not two where one is outdated and does not apply.

Praise the Father! Studying Torah as the foundation of all things will open up your eyes to the scriptures like you could never imagine. Overjoyed you have sought truth, and able to put away years of false indoctrination even when it may be difficult or unpopular. That being said, there are still far more many things that unite us within the body, then what divides us. I pray your path is blessed, peaceful and joyful all the years of your life.

 

[Deborah13]

In Romans 5: 12-14, Paul is discussing the time period between Adam and Moses. Sin entered the world through one man (Adam). The penalty of sin is death, and Paul tells us that death entered humanity through Adam.
All humans, except for John the Baptist and Jesus Christ, have sinned,

Where does the Bible say that John the Baptist never sinned?

Rom. 3:23, and death, therefore, has power over everyone. In verse 13, Paul uses the word law in two different senses. One law was given through Moses, but before that law was given, a more fundamental law existed. Between the time of Adam and Moses, everyone sinned. They were ignoring God, going their own ways, doing things God did not want them to do. God's law existed, even though it had not been written down, and everyone was transgressing it. Therefore, death ruled over them all, even if they did not break a specific command in the way that Adam did. Adam and Eve should have obeyed, but they acted selfishly, and they sinned. They wanted wisdom, but they tried to take it for themselves instead of receiving it legitimately. The result was death for them and all their descendants. All human beings have a selfishness that predisposes them to sin. Everyone sins, and everyone needs the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, as Paul explains in Romans 5.

Cain had a built-in sense of right and wrong. He knew that his attitude toward his brother was wrong. God told Cain to resist the sinful nature, but instead he allowed it to rule over him, and he murdered his brother. This was a sin, even though no written law said it was. All normal humans have a conscience, a natural inbuilt sense of right and wrong. This is what Paul refers to in Romans 2:14-15. By nature, God has written a moral sense, a law, into human hearts. Their understanding of right and wrong is not perfect, but every sane person has at least a basic concept of right and wrong, of love and selfishness. Although everyone falls short, some people do have good behavior as compared to others. By nature, they do things that are required in God's law — not the rituals of Moses, but the more general requirements of the law that existed before Moses.

I basically agree with this although the things you listed are not all a part of moral law. What if the civil law where you live tells you to kill all girl babies, should you do that?

Although many people try to do what they think to be right, none is perfect. Many others choose to live selfishly, violating the standards of their societies. The biblical story tells us that people became more and more violent, and God destroyed them with a flood, Gen. 6:11-13. After the flood, he gave an additional warning about murder, Gen. 9:5-6. He also established a covenant or agreement with Noah, promising that he would not destroy the earth with a flood, verses 8-11. Abraham believed God, and he was therefore judged to be in a right relationship with God even though he was not perfect. If Abraham believed God's astounding promise, then he also had enough faith to do whatever God asked. Even when God's command seemed to threaten God's promise to him, Abraham was willing to obey God. But it was the faith, not the obedience, that was counted for righteousness. The attitude of heart was considered more important than the result.

I agree with this too.
Is it the Law of Moses that was written on our hearts and minds?

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not saying they are Moses laws as they are in fact Gods laws given to Moses because of the increasing iniquity of Gods people since the fall of Adam. From the time of Adam to that of God giving the written laws to Moses there was never anything actually written down to follow. Even after the written laws mans iniquity still abounds. In my post # 83 I am only showing those laws which have been fulfilled through that of Jesus fulfilling that of the Temple sacrifice for the atonement of sin as He was made the final blood sacrifice for all who will call on His name. The moral parts of the 613 laws are still in effect today as how we as being a Christian conduct ourselves towards one another in the greatest commandment of love. The moral laws that we are to still follow in the laws are that of how we conduct ourselves within prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices. If we are truly walking in the love of God then we will know how to handle ourselves within the moral laws as not in vengeance or selfishness, but in justification and Gods righteousness.

 

[Deborah13]

Amen brother!

Sure enough brother, that does simplify it. When one walks in love as with the mind of Christ love will indeed fulfill and not transgress the law.

just like TOG said brother. it is not bondage, it is Gods will.

Interesting, so you believe we are to follow Moses Law?
Well, I'll help you along your way. Here is where you can buy a true Tallit for the wearing of the tzitizt everyday as commanded. There are others that are made with four fringes.
http://www.amazon.com/Perftzit-Size...d_sim_a_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0AGKFPZKT0D6STSXJY5P

This is what the pious Orthodox Jews wear everyday to remind them not to 'spy' on their own mind and heart but to look to God. Some others wear one or two attached to their shirt but they are worn everyday.
It is commanded in the Law of Moses to wear it everyday.
This idea that the Tallit is a prayer shawl to be worn while praying is nonsense. And it is these types of rewriting of the Law of Moses that really gives the Jews ammunition against Messianic Jews. And corrupts the Christian into thinking they are following Moses Law.

That said I have no issue if someone wears a prayer shawl as long as they understand the truth. Each person would have their own reason for doing that and it is between them and the Messiah.

If I am incorrect in anything written here please inform me of what and why.

 

[Deborah13]

I'm not saying they are Moses laws as they are in fact Gods laws given to Moses because of the increasing iniquity of Gods people since the fall of Adam. From the time of Adam to that of God giving the written laws to Moses there was never anything actually written down to follow. Even after the written laws mans iniquity still abounds. In my post # 83 I am only showing those laws which have been fulfilled through that of Jesus fulfilling that of the Temple sacrifice for the atonement of sin as He was made the final blood sacrifice for all who will call on His name. The moral parts of the 613 laws are still in effect today as how we as being a Christian conduct ourselves towards one another in the greatest commandment of love. The moral laws that we are to still follow in the laws are that of how we conduct ourselves within prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices. If we are truly walking in the love of God then we will know how to handle ourselves within the moral laws as not in vengeance or selfishness, but in justification and Gods righteousness.

These are not ceremonial laws....
Are men allowed to marry more than one woman if they are living somewhere the civil law of the country does not forbid it?
Which comes first Moses Law or the law of the country you live in?

Here's another moral law, NOT ceremonial. An illegitimate son can never become a priest and neither can any of his protegee for several generations.
Hmm.....that means that no illegitimate son or his protegee can be saved by God.

You are not a priest and never can be according to Moses Law because you are a woman.
Are you a priest?

 

[for_his_glory]

Where does the Bible say that John the Baptist never sinned?



I basically agree with this although the things you listed are not all a part of moral law. What if the civil law where you live tells you to kill all girl babies, should you do that?



I agree with this too.
Is it the Law of Moses that was written on our hearts and minds?

Luke Chapter 1, John had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him even before he was born and after his birth he grew and waxed strong in spirit as his full concentration was on the knowledge of salvation as being the forerunner of Christ.

If you read all of the 613 laws you will find all these moral laws within them. This is how I found them. Romans 13:1, 2: 1Peter 2:13, 14 tells us to submit ourselves to every authority instituted among man as in our present day Government, but if the ordinances of the Government goes against that of Gods ordinances then we are not to follow theirs.

Under the old covenant it was the Mosaic laws that were written on the heart, but now in the new covenant the law that is now written upon our hearts is that of the new covenant of grace which is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that now there is no condemnation in those who call upon His name.

 

[Deborah13]

Luke Chapter 1, John had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him even before he was born and after his birth he grew and waxed strong in spirit as his full concentration was on the knowledge of salvation as being the forerunner of Christ.

If you read all of the 613 laws you will find all these moral laws within them.

Where is Moses Law does it say to love your enemy as yourself?
Where in Moses Law does it say that if a man takes another wife he is committing adultry?
If you can find even just those two teachings directly from Jesus in Moses Law, I will reconsidered my posititon.

This is how I found them. Romans 13:1, 2: 1Peter 2:13, 14 tells us to submit ourselves to every authority instituted among man as in our present day Government, but if the ordinances of the Government goes against that of Gods ordinances then we are not to follow theirs.

Under the old covenant it was the Mosaic laws that were written on the heart, but now in the new covenant the law that is now written upon our hearts is that of the new covenant of grace which is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that now there is no condemnation in those who call upon His name.

 

[stovebolts]

Wow, a lot of interesting views here.

Because I'm short on time, this will probably be my only post. So I hope somebody finds some sort of benifit from it.

Question: Are Christians under the Law of Moses.
Answer: No, the Law of Moses was part of the covenant at Mt. Sinia. The people were asked, and they all responded in one voice with a resounding YES. God does not force his laws on anyone.

Question: Will the world be judged upon the Law of Moses?
Answer: No. Only those who subjected themselves to that covenant. You can't bind somebody to an agreement they never made.

Question: How will the unbelievers be judged?
Answer: By the universal laws of God given to all the gentiles as affirmed by the sign of that covenant, which is the rainbow. Numerically there are 8 of them and are known in modern times as the Noahide laws.

Question: Can a Christian adhere to the Laws of Moses.
Answer: Yes, if he / she so chooses to. Either way, it has no bearing on his / her eternal salvation.

Question: Is there a diffidence between being a Christian and a disciple of Christ?
Answer: Yes. A Christian now days simply means you believe in Jesus and you go to Church on Sunday and maybe even on a Wednesday. However, a disciple learns to walk as Jesus walks which is to say they try to live as Jesus lived and learn from his teachings. Matthew 5-7 is an example of the teachings of Jesus and Jesus himself said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments".

Question: Are we Christians under a covenant?
Answer: Yes, we call it the new Covenant. Jer 31 speaks of this new covenant and Jesus establishes this covenant with the words, "This is my blood of the new covenant which is being poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins".

Question: Who is part of this new covenant?
Answer: Those who are baptized into Christ.

Question: Are non-believers bound to this covenant?
Answer: No.

 

[stovebolts]

Where is Moses Law does it say to love your enemy as yourself?
Where in Moses Law does it say that if a man takes another wife he is committing adultry?
If you can find even just those two teachings directly from Jesus in Moses Law, I will reconsidered my posititon.

Jesus says, "You have heard, but I tell you". Jesus himself said he didn't come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. This is to say that he came to give a proper interpretation of the Law. Thus, "But I tell you" is the proper intent of a particular portion of Torah. I actually have the verses your referencing (both OT and NT) written down at home.

 

[for_his_glory]

These are not ceremonial laws....
Are men allowed to marry more than one woman if they are living somewhere the civil law of the country does not forbid it?
Which comes first Moses Law or the law of the country you live in?

Here's another moral law, NOT ceremonial. An illegitimate son can never become a priest and neither can any of his protegee for several generations.
Hmm.....that means that no illegitimate son or his protegee can be saved by God.

You are not a priest and never can be according to Moses Law because you are a woman.
Are you a priest?

First there were many laws added by man (Authoritative figures) to that of the 613 just as they are added by man (Government) today that have no part of what God gave to Moses.

In the beginning God ordained a man to have one wife, (Genesis 2:20-24). 1Timothy 3:1-12 shows that bishops and deacons are to have only one wife.

Polygamy originated with the son of Cain (Genesis. 4:16-19) Although several biblical characters such as David were polygamists the Bible gives clear examples of the destructiveness of this practice. Polygamy resulted in much heartache and trouble (Gen. 16:1-6; 1 Sam. 1:2-8; 1 Kings 11:1-8). God forbid kings to multiply wives (Deut. 17:14,17). David, Solomon, and other kings who had multiple wives were living contrary to God's Word.

As far as the illegitimate son being that of a a moral law that he can not be a priest, was it deemed by man adding to the law or did Gods actually say this. It's just like those who argue a women can not be a Pastor, but we see in many scripture where God used them in His ministry.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have to go and will be back on Monday and will check for more replies. God bless and have a great weekend.

 

[Deborah13]

Luke Chapter 1, John had the Holy Spirit dwelling in him even before he was born and after his birth he grew and waxed strong in spirit as his full concentration was on the knowledge of salvation as being the forerunner of Christ.

Ok where does the scriptures say that a person indwell by the Holy Spirit never sins?

If you read all of the 613 laws you will find all these moral laws within them. This is how I found them. Romans 13:1, 2: 1Peter 2:13, 14 tells us to submit ourselves to every authority instituted among man as in our present day Government, but if the ordinances of the Government goes against that of Gods ordinances then we are not to follow theirs.

Show me in Moses Law where 1 Peter 2:13 is supported.

Under the old covenant it was the Mosaic laws that were written on the heart,

What scripture says that Moses Law was written on their hearts and minds?

but now in the new covenant the law that is now written upon our hearts is that of the new covenant of grace which is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that now there is no condemnation in those who call upon His name.

 

[Deborah13]

First there were many laws added by man (Authoritative figures) to that of the 613 just as they are added by man (Government) today that have no part of what God gave to Moses.

In the beginning God ordained a man to have one wife, (Genesis 2:20-24). 1Timothy 3:1-12 shows that bishops and deacons are to have only one wife.

Polygamy originated with the son of Cain (Genesis. 4:16-19) Although several biblical characters such as David were polygamists the Bible gives clear examples of the destructiveness of this practice. Polygamy resulted in much heartache and trouble (Gen. 16:1-6; 1 Sam. 1:2-8; 1 Kings 11:1-8). God forbid kings to multiply wives (Deut. 17:14,17). David, Solomon, and other kings who had multiple wives were living contrary to God's Word.

As far as the illegitimate son being that of a a moral law that he can not be a priest, was it deemed by man adding to the law or did Gods actually say this. It's just like those who argue a women can not be a Pastor, but we see in many scripture where God used them in His ministry.

Nothing I have presented is something that was added. You would have to go to the Talmud to find the things that were added by the leaders.
You said you have studied the 613 laws, the illegitimate son law is there. The law to protect the first wife from being neglected by her husband because he took and wife is there in the 613 laws.

I am not talking about being a Pastor or any other leader in the church.
Does the Bible say you are a priest?

 

[agua.]

Where is Moses Law does it say to love your enemy as yourself?

Exodus 23 touches on this but the principle is seen in other laws about the treatment of an enemy.

Exo 23:4-5 KJV If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. (5) If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him.


Solomon also shows the correct treatment of enemies and I guess it must have been implied by the Mosaic law. imo

Pro 25:21-22 KJV If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: (22) For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.

Pro 24:17-18 KJV Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth: (18) Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him.