The Law, works and keeping his comandments

[Sinthesis]

Faith in Christ is all about upholding the requirements of the law of Moses. People instantly reject that statement because they have been conditioned to automatically hear that as 'I have to keep a literal Sabbath', or 'that would be trying to be led by written words instead of the Spirit', or 'that would be trying to be justified by works of the law'.

But if people would just listen to what the Bible teaches they could see that upholding the law of Moses means upholding the requirements of the law of Moses in the new way of faith in Christ, and his work on the cross.

What exactly are these requirements of the law of Moses? Please list them all.
I think you may be confusing fundamentals, requirements, and ways. Or at least using these words in ways that are confusing to others.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

23 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 24 "Speak to the children of Israel, saying: 'In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a Sabbath-rest, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation. 25 You shall do no customary work on it; and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord.' " 26 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 27 "Also the tenth day of this seventh month shall be the Day of Atonement. It shall be a holy convocation for you; you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. 28 And you shall do no work on that same day, for it is the Day of Atonement, to make atonement for you before the Lord your God. 29 For any person who is not afflicted in soul on that same day shall be cut off from his people. 30 And any person who does any work on that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people. 31 You shall do no manner of work; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. Leviticus 23:23-31

In your own words please explain what this means to us today and how it was fulfilled in Christ.


Thanks JLB

Putting this in my own words minus other scriptural support will make it a lot easier on me, lol. Many, if not all of the things I point out here will already be familiar to you in scripture. Refer back to the passage on each point to help get the full understanding of what I'm saying here.

The appointed time is satisfied in the appointed time of Christ's appearing and our obedience to respond to the call when it comes.

The requirement for 'Sabbath-rest' ('do no customary work'; 'do no work'; 'do no manner of work') as I've said is satisfied when we put to death the evil works of the flesh--the 'customary' and familiar deeds of our natural selves--by our faith in Christ.

The blowing of the trumpets is the heralding of the gospel and the signaling of the people of God to assemble together in holy convocation in Christ through the Holy Spirit, prepared for worship, and service. It also has prophetic significance that others may be able to comment on better than I.

We satisfy the requirements for The Day of Atonement itself when we believe in Christ who, at the appointed time, carried his own blood behind the curtain in the Tabernacle in heaven and made atonement for the people of God, Him being both the sacrifice offered, and the Appointed Son of the High Priest who offers that sacrifice.

The offerings made by fire required by law refer to both us and Christ ablaze with the Holy Spirit and in place on the altar of service and worship to God.

Affliction of soul can be both sorrow for sin, and the patient suffering for the kingdom. That affliction being a pleasing and required sacrifice offered up to God as a pleasing aroma.

Anyone who does not afflict themselves this way (what I've just said, not Moses' way), and who does not enter into the Rest commanded by God (as I have spoken of that here, not Moses' way) can not participate in the benefit of the Day. They will be destroyed, not saved. Anyone who does not fulfill these requirements of God can not be saved. Faith in the work of Christ, and repentance from works of death, by the Holy Spirit, is how we satisfy the requirements of the law.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think you meant to refer to the Passover, rather than the Day of Atonement.

Remember Atone means to cover whereas the blood of Jesus cleanses and removes.


JLB

No, I was speaking specifically of the Day of Atonement and it's requirements. That's what the author of Hebrews is talking about.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What exactly are these requirements of the law of Moses? Please list them all.
I think you may be confusing fundamentals, requirements, and ways. Or at least using these words in ways that are confusing to others.

It would be quite a task to list them all. Many of them are found in the passage JLB posted and which I explained.

I thought the post I made about circumcision and Sabbath Rest would make the difference between lawful 'requirements' and first covenant 'ways' clear.

Circumcision is a 'requirement' to be in covenant and at peace with God. The old 'way' of doing that--the old covenant way of doing that--was literally removing the fleshly covering from the hidden male member from where physical life flows. The new 'way'--the New Covenant way of doing that--is the removal of the fleshly covering and influence from the hidden member of the heart from where spiritual life flows.

We know from scripture that even though circumcision of the heart is not in conformance with the literal 'way' that is to be done in the law, it fulfills and satisfies the lawful requirement for circumcision to God's complete and total satisfaction, nevertheless.

See, the lawful requirement for circumcision remains. The way it is met is what changed. And not really changed (circumcision of the heart has always been required), but fully revealed as the real intent and purpose circumcision serves. And now that we know that, the old way can be laid aside. We don't need it anymore. It was just a symbol and illustration and foreshadow of the spiritual reality to be revealed with the coming of Christ. That reality is here now, so the old way gets laid aside, not the requirement itself for circumcision.

We can apply this same understanding to the blood required by the law. Christ's blood is not in conformance with the literal way that the first covenant satisfied God's requirement for blood, but it, without any doubt or debate, fulfills that requirement of law to God's complete and total satisfaction. The lawful requirement for blood remains. What changed was the first covenant way that requirement for blood was satisfied.

This same understanding of lawful 'requirements', and old and new covenant 'ways' of satisfying those requirement, can be applied to the other things in the law of Moses.

 

[JLB]

Putting this in my own words minus other scriptural support will make it a lot easier on me, lol. Many, if not all of the things I point out here will already be familiar to you in scripture. Refer back to the passage on each point to help get the full understanding of what I'm saying here.

The appointed time is satisfied in the appointed time of Christ's appearing and our obedience to respond to the call when it comes.

The requirement for 'Sabbath-rest' ('do no customary work'; 'do no work'; 'do no manner of work') as I've said is satisfied when we put to death the evil works of the flesh--the 'customary' and familiar deeds of our natural selves--by our faith in Christ.

The blowing of the trumpets is the heralding of the gospel and the signaling of the people of God to assemble together in holy convocation in Christ through the Holy Spirit, prepared for worship, and service. It also has prophetic significance that others may be able to comment on better than I.

We satisfy the requirements for The Day of Atonement itself when we believe in Christ who, at the appointed time, carried his own blood behind the curtain in the Tabernacle in heaven and made atonement for the people of God, Him being both the sacrifice offered, and the Appointed Son of the High Priest who offers that sacrifice.

The offerings made by fire required by law refer to both us and Christ ablaze with the Holy Spirit and in place on the altar of service and worship to God.

Affliction of soul can be both sorrow for sin, and the patient suffering for the kingdom. That affliction being a pleasing and required sacrifice offered up to God as a pleasing aroma.

Anyone who does not afflict themselves this way (what I've just said, not Moses' way), and who does not enter into the Rest commanded by God (as I have spoken of that here, not Moses' way) can not participate in the benefit of the Day. They will be destroyed, not saved. Anyone who does not fulfill these requirements of God can not be saved. Faith in the work of Christ, and repentance from works of death, by the Holy Spirit, is how we satisfy the requirements of the law.

Christ Jesus entered into Heaven with His own Blood on the Third Day which is the feast of first fruits.

That is why He is the "first fruits" of those that will be resurrected from the dead.

This is associated with the Passover.

His Blood cleanses us from sin, that is not atonement.

Atonement means to cover.

That is why the OT saints were in the Heart of the Earth in Paradise and not in Heaven.


JLB

Atonement means to cover

 

[Sinthesis]

It would be quite a task to list them all. Many of them are found in the passage JLB posted and which I explained.

I thought the post I made about circumcision and Sabbath Rest would make the difference between lawful 'requirements' and first covenant 'ways' clear.

Circumcision is a 'requirement' to be in covenant and at peace with God. The old 'way' of doing that--the old covenant way of doing that--was literally removing the fleshly covering from the hidden male member from where physical life flows. The new 'way'--the New Covenant way of doing that--is the removal of the fleshly covering and influence from the hidden member of the heart from where spiritual life flows.

We know from scripture that even though circumcision of the heart is not in conformance with the literal 'way' that is to be done in the law, it fulfills and satisfies the lawful requirement for circumcision to God's complete and total satisfaction, nevertheless.

See, the lawful requirement for circumcision remains. The way it is met is what changed. And not really changed (circumcision of the heart has always been required), but fully revealed as the real intent and purpose circumcision serves. And now that we know that, the old way can be laid aside. We don't need it anymore. It was just a symbol and illustration and foreshadow of the spiritual reality to be revealed with the coming of Christ. That reality is here now, so the old way gets laid aside, not the requirement itself for circumcision.

We can apply this same understanding to the blood required by the law. Christ's blood is not in conformance with the literal way that the first covenant satisfied God's requirement for blood, but it, without any doubt or debate, fulfills that requirement of law to God's complete and total satisfaction. The lawful requirement for blood remains. What changed was the first covenant way that requirement for blood was satisfied.

This same understanding of lawful 'requirements', and old and new covenant 'ways' of satisfying those requirement, can be applied to the other things in the law of Moses.

The reason I would like you to list all these supposed requirements is to show that they are not fundamental, but instead just ways of expressing the fundamentals. So for example, using your terms, circumcision would be just a way of expressing that you are in covenant and at peace with God. It is not a fundamental requirement. The circumcised heart/flesh is just a token of the more fundamental peace with God, which is itself a product of our surrender to God. In the same way, sabbath keeping is, no matter in which way you keep it, just a benefit of our belonging to God, which happens when we surrender to Him. Changing the sabbath from a gift to a requirement makes it a work.

Your admission that it would be a task to list all the requirements of God suggests that they are not actually fundamentals, but just spiritually legal ways of expressing the fundamentals. The law is complex, but Grace is simple.

 

[jasoncran]

I think you meant to refer to the Passover, rather than the Day of Atonement.

Remember Atone means to cover whereas the blood of Jesus cleanses and removes.


JLB

uhm. the atoning blood? what does that mean? and its in jeremiah that says as far as the east is from the west .. if god didn't really forgive the sins that means he is a liar. when god forgave you then it was then and now. Abraham believed and he didn't have the cross then. he was justified ere the cross. he believe that God was the one who would give him the promise land and followed him for that(not going to go into when he started believing). he saw jesus by faith and since he knew el-shaddai he would also believe jesus since he knew him. full revalation of god's Christ wasn't a means of salvation then. they were charged with doing what they were revealed. we have the greater revalation.

 

[JLB]

uhm. the atoning blood? what does that mean? and its in jeremiah that says as far as the east is from the west .. if god didn't really forgive the sins that means he is a liar. when god forgave you then it was then and now. Abraham believed and he didn't have the cross then. he was justified ere the cross. he believe that God was the one who would give him the promise land and followed him for that(not going to go into when he started believing). he saw jesus by faith and since he knew el-shaddai he would also believe jesus since he knew him. full revalation of god's Christ wasn't a means of salvation then. they were charged with doing what they were revealed. we have the greater revalation.

Abraham walked with The Lord Jesus Christ in Covenant.

Please share the scripture from the Old Testament.

 

[jasoncran]

simple.

isiah 1:18, read that and tell me that GOD semi forgave then compare the wording of john in revalation 7;14

gen 15

And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness

now then. paul's commentary on that found in galatians 3

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them

 

[jasoncran]

take it up with paul. Abraham believe god and was counted as being right with god.

 

[JLB]

simple.

isiah 1:18, read that and tell me that GOD semi forgave then compare the wording of john in revalation 7;14

gen 15

now then. paul's commentary on that found in galatians 3

Semi Forgave?

The Blood of Bulls and goats made atonement for sins.

The Blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin, and our conscience.

I have not mentioned the word forgive in this discussion with Jethro, only the difference between what the blood of animals did, and what the blood of Jesus does for us.

If you don't think there is a difference, then you have much to learn.

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Hebrews 10:4

That is why the OT saints were down in the heart of the Earth in Abraham's Bosom and not in heaven, until Jesus descended down there and preached to the spirits in prison, then "He ascended on high, He led captivity captive"...

They are in heaven now because of the Blood of Jesus, not the blood of animals that can never take away sins, only cover them.

JLB

 

[jasoncran]

right. and it wasn't GOD that forgave Abraham. remember that GOD is both YHWH and JESUS, and the HOLY SPIRIT.uhm what was that the apostles saw in the transfiguaration? moses and Elijah! for men that wernet really forgiven and didn't hear the preaching of jesus in sheol they were quite alive in a spiritual body.
17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
[/quote]
the torah also says that I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM , ISAAC, JACOB. JESUS told the saducees that they were wrong about the resurrection. that God didn't say i was the GOD. they were alive to him. that means they were forgiven.

mk 12

18 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,

19 Master, Moses wrote unto us, If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.

20 Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed.

21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise.

22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.

23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.

24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

they weren't dead they did go somewhere. if its sheol then why did moses and Elijah not have to hear jesus when they ministered unto him?

 

[OhFarouk]

take it up with paul. Abraham believe god and was counted as being right with god.

Well, exactly.

The Old Testament sacrifices looked forward to the Cross; today, those who are justified by faith look back to the finished sacrifice at the Cross.

 

[jasoncran]

true but its GOD not the means which was told that forgive. do we phyisically wash ourselves in his blood? NO we don't. we just accept the atonement of the cross. Daniel didn't have any animals to offer for his sins. he just prayed. and was forgiven. the same was said with the prophets,. jermemiah. Ezekiel and others in the diaspora. noah preached that Nineveh would be destroyed in 40 days and yet the heathens there believed and repented and fasted. were they told to? no they just did and god repented of his judgement and what did jesus say about that? he said that the city would rise up and condemn the cities capernahum and others.

 

[JLB]

right. and it wasn't GOD that forgave Abraham. remember that GOD is both YHWH and JESUS, and the HOLY SPIRIT.uhm what was that the apostles saw in the transfiguaration? moses and Elijah! for men that wernet really forgiven and didn't hear the preaching of jesus in sheol they were quite alive in a spiritual body.
17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

the torah also says that I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM , ISAAC, JACOB. JESUS told the saducees that they were wrong about the resurrection. that God didn't say i was the GOD. they were alive to him. that means they were forgiven.

mk 12 they weren't dead they did go somewhere. if its sheol then why did moses and Elijah not have to hear jesus when they ministered unto him?[/quote]


Again, -

For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Hebrews 10:4

Again, the OT saints went to Abraham's Bosom in the heart of the Earth.

This was before the Lord became flesh and died on the cross as a Man.

Before the Cross: ABRAHAM'S BOSOM.

After the Cross: HEAVEN

Blood of Bulls and goats: Atonement

Blood of Jesus: Cleanse from sin


JLB

 

[jasoncran]

is the mount of olives where the transfugaration happened heaven? so how could moses and Elijah not be forgiven fully and have to heard the word from jesus and still be? and you forget this i take it literally

1 peter 3

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water

the souls that were preached to were were when they disobeyed? on the earth during the flood. not in some jail. jesus didn't go to sheol when he died he went to gan eden a place similar to the paradise concept of hades but its not under the earth of it is its not called part of sheol as that isn't in the sheol definitions i have read up on. the jews say sheol is only for those that are too evil and purgatory. they don't teach that if a tzaddik is holy that he stays in sheol he goes to gan eden that is another place.

 

[OhFarouk]

jasoncran: It's 'faith in His blood' (Romans 3).

Blessings.

 

[jasoncran]

still Abraham believed in god. whom died on the cross? a god or mere man. the blood was real yes but still jesus is god. logic here: jesus takes on flesh. we believe in jesus because he receives worship as god, he dies for us. Abraham believes God because he says i will do what i say i will do(we do the same) he is forgiven. the object is the same GOD!

 

[JLB]

is the mount of olives where the transfugaration happened heaven? so how could moses and Elijah not be forgiven fully and have to heard the word from jesus and still be? and you forget this i take it literally

1 peter 3 the souls that were preached to were were when they disobeyed? on the earth during the flood. not in some jail. jesus didn't go to sheol when he died he went to gan eden a place similar to the paradise concept of hades but its not under the earth of it is its not called part of sheol as that isn't in the sheol definitions i have read up on. the jews say sheol is only for those that are too evil and purgatory. they don't teach that if a tzaddik is holy that he stays in sheol he goes to gan eden that is another place.

Use scripture if you want to have anything valid to say.

You make up phrases and talk in circles mentioning this and that, the Jews say this and that...

 

[jasoncran]

really? so we shouldn't take into account that jesus lived in a time period as man,

so when jesus mentioned grace. despite being bar and bat mitzvahed the jews then wouldn't know this verse and it wouldn't come to mind?

"but noah found grace in the eyes of the lord"? or when Abraham had faith and the man paul spoke to jews about it(galatians had a large jewish believing group) that they wouldn't know the account.

god isn't an indian giver. if he says thou shall not die you wont. if he says thou art forgiven then you are.

micah 7:19

He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
cast.

Psalm 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions

is 43:25"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more"

so how does one get a semi forgiveness? definition of atonement in English in the 1828 websters

http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/atonement

pretty much what i said. to make right with god. there was the old way in the tanach, by animals and by prayer in the diaspora.