The true teachings of Jesus

[jaybo]

God can always raise the dead. That isn't the point.

You claim the church has Apostles just like the twelve, who raise the dead today. If that were the case, then they would be in the news just as the Twelve Apostles were in their day.

Compare:
"For the king, before whom I also speak freely, knows these things; for I am convinced that none of these things escapes his attention, since this thing was not done in a corner. (Acts 26:26 NKJ)

Which newspaper (news-scroll) reported the apostles' deeds?

 

[jaybo]

Jesus points all to his Father only. Believe him.

I do believe Him. I don't believe your interpretation.

 

[jaybo]

All the more reason you stop evading my question, to prove how much better you are than me.

Are you serious??? for his glory knows more than you ever will.

 

[for_his_glory]

You claim the church has Apostles just like the twelve, who raise the dead today. If that were the case, then they would be in the news just as the Twelve Apostles were in their day.

It has nothing to do with any church whether it be denomination or non-denomination. It is about those who God uses to work through. Did Jesus broadcast of the signs and wonders He has done while here on earth going about saying hey look at me and what I can do, no, so why should we boast of the signs and wonders God's Spirit works through those He chooses to work through.

I realize you are a Cessationalist and believe their teachings on this to be true that the gifts have ceased, but we have shown you many many times through scripture and that of our own testimonies as we witness and testify of the power of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

God can always raise the dead. That isn't the point.

That is the point as we can do nothing of our self as all is done by the power and authority of God who works in us and through us for His purpose.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe God providentially heals through modern medicine.

Are you changing your mind now as you did not believe that before.

 

[for_his_glory]

We could argue all day if I answered your objections.

OR you could prove me horribly wrong by answering this precisely :

3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will? (Heb. 2:3-4 NKJ)

I have already answered that, but all you want to do is argue and prove only you have all truth. No one can discuss with someone who has their ears closed to hear what others are saying. These are not debates, nor arguments, but trying to discuss. Why do you evade our questions and then expect us to answer yours.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Apostles are implied,

Nothing is implied in Hebrews 2:3 except you reading into that verse something that is not there. Many things are confirmed to us, not by the Apostles, but by Christ alone who gave to the Apostles to write. I already told you those verses are a warning against neglecting salvation.

Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

 

[jaybo]

I have posted this before and will do so again...

I was a serious atheist in my 30s. I had serious debates with a pastor who used to visit us, trying to show her how delusional she and other believers in God were. Then I was hospitalized with a severe asthma attack; the doctors couldn't break the spasm. The pastor came to my hospital room, read Matthew 11:28-30, then prayed "Jesus, heal this man". The spasm broke immediately and I instantly knew that Jesus was my savior. All doubt and cynicism vanished in an instant. Again, and this bears repeating, I was an atheist! I was not looking for salvation; I thought it was all nonsense.

People can discuss whether the gifts are real or not " 'til the cows come home" but it's just theorizing. I know that His gifts are real and working "today".

BTW, a Christian friend visited me two days after I was saved and healed and asked me if I had received my prayer language yet. When I said that I hadn't, he told me to ask God for it and I immediately began speaking in tongues -- an unknown language -- which I do to this day.

People can deny that the NT gifts don't exist today, but I know better!

 

[for_his_glory]

God can always raise the dead. That isn't the point.

You claim the church has Apostles just like the twelve, who raise the dead today. If that were the case, then they would be in the news just as the Twelve Apostles were in their day.

Compare:
"For the king, before whom I also speak freely, knows these things; for I am convinced that none of these things escapes his attention, since this thing was not done in a corner. (Acts 26:26 NKJ)

Events like this got everyone's attention:

12 And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon's Porch.
13 Yet none of the rest dared join them, but the people esteemed them highly.
14 And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women,
15 so that they brought the sick out into the streets and laid them on beds and couches, that at least the shadow of Peter passing by might fall on some of them.
16 Also a multitude gathered from the surrounding cities to Jerusalem, bringing sick people and those who were tormented by unclean spirits, and they were all healed. (Acts 5:12-16 NKJ)

At that time of the Apostles in Acts 5 was the beginning of the commission Jesus gave them for then they were indwelled with the Holy Spirit in the upper room before they were sent out, plus all the 120 that were in the upper room that day.

 

[for_his_glory]

Alfred Persson why are you so against the power of God healing others today. You should be rejoicing that He does heal others.

 

[for_his_glory]

Which newspaper (news-scroll) reported the apostles' deeds?

The good news of the Gospel.

 

[jaybo]

Alfred Persson why are you so against the power of God healing others today. You should be rejoicing that He does heal others.

Great post!

 

[for_his_glory]

I have posted this before and will do so again...

I was a serious atheist in my 30s. I had serious debates with a pastor who used to visit us, trying to show her how delusional she and other believers in God were. Then I was hospitalized with a severe asthma attack; the doctors couldn't break the spasm. The pastor came to my hospital room, read Matthew 11:28-30, then prayed "Jesus, heal this man". The spasm broke immediately and I instantly knew that Jesus was my savior. All doubt and cynicism vanished in an instant. Again, and this bears repeating, I was an atheist! I was not looking for salvation; I thought it was all nonsense.

People can discuss whether the gifts are real or not " 'til the cows come home" but it's just theorizing. I know that His gifts are real and working "today".

BTW, a Christian friend visited me two days after I was saved and healed and asked me if I had received my prayer language yet. When I said that I hadn't, he told me to ask God for it and I immediately began speaking in tongues -- an unknown language -- which I do to this day.

People can deny that the NT gifts don't exist today, but I know better!

Amen brother as how can one deny that which they have seen and experienced themselves.

 

[jaybo]

The good news of the Gospel.

This was in reply to Alfred Perrson's post which asked "Which newspaper (news-scroll) reported the apostles' deeds?"

 

[keiw1]

38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?"
39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them."
41 These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him. (Jn. 12:38-41 NKJ)

1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple.
2 Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.
3 And one cried to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; The whole earth is full of His glory!"
4 And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 So I said: "Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, The LORD of hosts." (Isa. 6:1-5 NKJ)

God is king of eternity, he was the only king in heaven back then. Jesus was appointed to a kingship( Daniel 7:13-15) He received the crown here at Rev 6. He must (1Cor 15:24-28)hand back the kingdom to his God and Father( end of Rev 20) and subject himself----- forever. YHWH is LORD of hosts= Jehovah of armies.

 

[keiw1]

a) We all read the Bible and learn from it.
b) You didn't answer my question: are you seriously suggesting that you know God's truth 100% and that those who disagree with you will not enter God's kingdom? And the truths you share are pure reality?

Jesus is with a single religion( 1Cor 1:10) not 34,000 of them--the rest are a divided house they will not stand. Jesus 1 religion is different from the others--He said they would be hated because they hated him first.
Yes many read the bible-thus-34,000 different religions claiming to be christian= a mass of confusion. One must be taught by the teachers who have Jesus, only they have truth. At the proper time.

 

[keiw1]

I do believe Him. I don't believe your interpretation.

I dont interpret anything. i believe Jesus who clearly tells all-John 17:3--the one who sent him= Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. All his true followers believe HIM. And at John 4:22-24 where Jesus warns of all others gods being false then says-The true followers will worship the Father in spirit and truth.

 

[Alfred Persson]

God is king of eternity, he was the only king in heaven back then. Jesus was appointed to a kingship( Daniel 7:13-15) He received the crown here at Rev 6. He must (1Cor 15:24-28)hand back the kingdom to his God and Father( end of Rev 20) and subject himself----- forever. YHWH is LORD of hosts= Jehovah of armies.

Friend, that is what you believe because the Society has hidden the truth from your eyes. Jesus is the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and the Omega, the very Word of God who verbalizes the thoughts of God making them concrete reality. For example:

"In the Beginning, God SAID let there be light", that was Jesus the WORD of God creating the light---by verbalizing God's thought.

That is revealed in the book of the revelation of Jesus Christ:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:8 NKJ)

11 saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band.
14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire;
15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters;
16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength.
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. (Rev. 1:11-17 NKJ)

13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star." (Rev. 22:13-16 NKJ)

 

[pierac]

I was only asking you a question, So, by what you are saying is that only 144,000 generational Jews will be found in the New Jerusalem when it is ushered down from heaven after this present earth and heaven are passed away?

I may have misunderstood what you said by asking you a question, nothing more, nothing less.

The 144,000 you believe to be the only saved ... is a far cry from all men...

1Ti 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

NASB Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';

You starting to understand?
Paul