The true teachings of Jesus

[pierac]

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:5
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

There, you see, the Messiah is supposed to be God. Wrong! If we take a closer look at this verse you will see that it does not mean that at all. The phrase in question is Mighty God, and the proper understanding of Everlasting Father is a must. First, Mighty God.

Not all Bibles use the translation of Mighty for the Hebrew word gibbor. The Jewish translators of the Septaugint render it in the following manner, "The angel of great council." Angel meaning mesenger. But we will address the ones that do just for arguments sake. First of all, we will take a close look at the Hebrew word that is translated as Mighty. Translators have used Mighty for theological reasons, (so they can tie it in to other verses that God is referred to as mighty, and thus claim that the Messiah is supposed to be God). Let’s see what a Hebrew dictionary and a Hebrew lexicon tells us about this word.

The Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary defines this word as:
Gibbor – by impl. warrior, tyrant:- champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), valiant man. Mighty is the eighth definition of this word.

The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon says of this word gibbor as it is used in Isaiah 9: 5:

Isaiah 9:5 - ref. Messiah, attribute of God especially as fighting for his people. This explanation doesn’t even mention Mighty.

According to these sources, gibbor as it is used in Isaiah 9:5 along with God means, a warrior king with the attributes of God. This is exactly who the Messiah is supposed to be. This definition agrees with the rest of the chapter in which Isaiah talks about how the Messiah will reign on David’s throne, and how he will rule with justice and righteousness forever because of the zeal of the LORD Almighty.he says how the Messiah will be from the root of Jesse, how the Spirit of the LORD will rest on him, and how he will delight in the fear of the LORD. Now, are we supposed to believe that the LORD will delight in the fear of Himself? Definitely not. Isaiah prophesying about the Messiah says:

Isaiah 49:5: "And I am made glorious in the sight of the LORD, and MY GOD is my strength."

From Isaiah 49:5 and 11:1-3 we can see that Isaiah understands the future Messiah to be a man on whom God's spirit will rest (which is the meaning of the word "Christ") who will delight in the fear of his God, the LORD. Isaiah does not consider the Messiah to be God in Isaiah 11:1-3 nor in Isaiah 49:5, and neither does he believe that in Isaiah 9: 5.

The definition of the Messiah as a warrior king with the attributes of God, is seen in Revelation 19: 11 where it reads:
Now we will look at some other translations to see how they have interpreted this verse.

The New English Bible says, "In battle God-like."

The New American Bible (which is a Catholic Bible, they invented the trinity) says, "God- Hero." It translates this verse in the following manner and has a note on this verse which is very interesting and enlightening. First the translation. It states: "They name him Wonder-Counselor, God-Hero, Father-Forever, Prince of Peace."
Footnote:
"Wonder- Counselor: remarkable for his wisdom and prudence.
God-Hero: a warrior and defender of his people, like God himself.
Father-forever: ever devoted to his people.
Prince of peace: his reign will be characterized by peace."

This exegesis is in complete agreement with the definitions and Bible passage that we have just examined. Remember, this is the Catholic Church’s interpretation, I am sure that they would love to be able to say that according to this passage the Messiah is supposed to be God, but even they don’t.

For a better understanding of the term Father-Forever or Everlasting Father, (depending on your translation) one must understand that kings were considered to be fathers of their people. The Messiah is the King of Israel. I agree with the New American Bible’s explanation of Father- Forever in this verse.

We can also substantiate this definition by looking at another verse of the same writer in Isaiah 22: 20- 21:

"In that day I will summon my servant Eliakim son of Hilkiah. I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah."

Isaiah obviously does not mean that Eliakim is God the Father. In Isaiah 9:5 he means that the Messiah as king of the new Israel (the kingdom of God) will be like a father to his people forever.

This matches what I found using e-sword's net Bible...

Like I said earlier, we need to look at the scripture in question. What is the Book or Chapter about? What are the verses before and after saying?

You can buy the expanded e-sword edition of the Net Bible. Please do so as it’s loaded with extra data and variant readings. Just a note. The net people believe in the trinity yet look how they handle this verse. Note the red numbers for reference to the comments. They did a good job of trying to be non-bias here.

Net Bible Isa 9:6 For a child has been15 born to us, son has been given to us. He shoulders Responsibility and is called:16 Extraordinary Strategist,17 Mighty God,18 Everlasting Father,19 Prince of Peace.20

17 Since Isa_11:2 points out that this king will receive the spirit of the Lord, which will enable him to counsel, it is possible to argue that the king's counsel is "extraordinary" because it finds its source in the divine spirit. (Anointed) Thus this title does not necessarily suggest that the ruler is deity

18 tn âÌÄáÌåÉø (gibbor) is probably an attributive adjective ("mighty God"), though one might translate "God is a warrior" or "God is mighty." Scholars have interpreted this title is two ways. A number of them have argued that the title portrays the king as God's representative on the battlefield, whom God empowers in a supernatural way (see J. H. Hayes and S. A. Irvine, Isaiah, 181-82). They contend that this sense seems more likely in the original context of the prophecy. They would suggest that having read the NT, we might in retrospect interpret this title as indicating the coming king's deity, but it is unlikely that Isaiah or his audience would have understood the title in such a bold way. Psa_45:6 addresses the Davidic king as "God" because he ruled and fought as God's representative on earth.

19 tn This title must not be taken in an anachronistic Trinitarian sense. (To do so would be theologically problematic, for the "Son" is the messianic king and is distinct in his person from God the "Father.") Rather, in its original context the title pictures the king as the protector of his people. For a similar use of "father" see Isa_22:21 and Job_29:16. This figurative, idiomatic use of "father" is not limited to the Bible. In a Phoenician inscription (ca. 850-800 B.C.) the ruler Kilamuwa declares: "To some I was a father, to others I was a mother." In another inscription (ca. 800 B.C.) the ruler Azitawadda boasts that the god Baal made him "a father and a mother" to his people. (See ANET 499-500.) The use of "everlasting" might suggest the deity of the king (as the one who has total control over eternity), but Isaiah and his audience may have understood the term as royal hyperbole emphasizing the king's long reign or enduring dynasty is literally realized in the ultimate fulfillment of the prophecy, for Jesus will rule eternally.

20 tn This title pictures the king as one who establishes a safe socio-economic environment for his people. It hardly depicts him as a meek individual, for he establishes peace through military strength (as the preceding context and the first two royal titles indicate). His people experience safety and prosperity because their invincible king destroys their enemies. See Psalms 72 and 144 for parallels to these theme.

Also important to note are the words in the verse. You will note most of the translations read… “will be called” or “shall be called” This is more of a concept of agency than actually being. There is a big difference between being call something, as in(agency) and actually being. No translations ever read “He Is. ”

This verse is actually a great example of how a western mind can read a verse literally and come away with a completely wrong impression. The Hebraic back ground is needed to fully understand this verse as it was intended to be understood!

Paul

 

[jaybo]

Jesus is with a single religion( 1Cor 1:10) not 34,000 of them--the rest are a divided house they will not stand. Jesus 1 religion is different from the others--He said they would be hated because they hated him first.
Yes many read the bible-thus-34,000 different religions claiming to be christian= a mass of confusion. One must be taught by the teachers who have Jesus, only they have truth. At the proper time.

I have often read figures such as 34,000, which is nonsense. Where do you get this data from? Certainly not the Bible. There is one body of Christ.

Are you claiming that you have been taught directly by Jesus and others haven't? If so, what is the basis for your claim?

It seems that you are filled with pride of self and judgement of others.

 

[jaybo]

Isaiah 9:5
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

There, you see, the Messiah is supposed to be God. Wrong! If we take a closer look at this verse you will see that it does not mean that at all. The phrase in question is Mighty God, and the proper understanding of Everlasting Father is a must. First, Mighty God.

Not all Bibles use the translation of Mighty for the Hebrew word gibbor. The Jewish translators of the Septaugint render it in the following manner, "The angel of great council." Angel meaning mesenger. But we will address the ones that do just for arguments sake. First of all, we will take a close look at the Hebrew word that is translated as Mighty. Translators have used Mighty for theological reasons, (so they can tie it in to other verses that God is referred to as mighty, and thus claim that the Messiah is supposed to be God). Let’s see what a Hebrew dictionary and a Hebrew lexicon tells us about this word.

The Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary defines this word as:
Gibbor – by impl. warrior, tyrant:- champion, chief, X excel, giant, man, mighty (man, one), valiant man. Mighty is the eighth definition of this word.

The Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon says of this word gibbor as it is used in Isaiah 9: 5:

Isaiah 9:5 - ref. Messiah, attribute of God especially as fighting for his people. This explanation doesn’t even mention Mighty.

According to these sources, gibbor as it is used in Isaiah 9:5 along with God means, a warrior king with the attributes of God. This is exactly who the Messiah is supposed to be. This definition agrees with the rest of the chapter in which Isaiah talks about how the Messiah will reign on David’s throne, and how he will rule with justice and righteousness forever because of the zeal of the LORD Almighty.he says how the Messiah will be from the root of Jesse, how the Spirit of the LORD will rest on him, and how he will delight in the fear of the LORD. Now, are we supposed to believe that the LORD will delight in the fear of Himself? Definitely not. Isaiah prophesying about the Messiah says:

Isaiah 49:5: "And I am made glorious in the sight of the LORD, and MY GOD is my strength."

From Isaiah 49:5 and 11:1-3 we can see that Isaiah understands the future Messiah to be a man on whom God's spirit will rest (which is the meaning of the word "Christ") who will delight in the fear of his God, the LORD. Isaiah does not consider the Messiah to be God in Isaiah 11:1-3 nor in Isaiah 49:5, and neither does he believe that in Isaiah 9: 5.

The definition of the Messiah as a warrior king with the attributes of God, is seen in Revelation 19: 11 where it reads:
Now we will look at some other translations to see how they have interpreted this verse.

The New English Bible says, "In battle God-like."

The New American Bible (which is a Catholic Bible, they invented the trinity) says, "God- Hero." It translates this verse in the following manner and has a note on this verse which is very interesting and enlightening. First the translation. It states: "They name him Wonder-Counselor, God-Hero, Father-Forever, Prince of Peace."
Footnote:
"Wonder- Counselor: remarkable for his wisdom and prudence.
God-Hero: a warrior and defender of his people, like God himself.
Father-forever: ever devoted to his people.
Prince of peace: his reign will be characterized by peace."

This exegesis is in complete agreement with the definitions and Bible passage that we have just examined. Remember, this is the Catholic Church’s interpretation, I am sure that they would love to be able to say that according to this passage the Messiah is supposed to be God, but even they don’t.

For a better understanding of the term Father-Forever or Everlasting Father, (depending on your translation) one must understand that kings were considered to be fathers of their people. The Messiah is the King of Israel. I agree with the New American Bible’s explanation of Father- Forever in this verse.

We can also substantiate this definition by looking at another verse of the same writer in Isaiah 22: 20- 21:

"In that day I will summon my servant Eliakim son of Hilkiah. I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah."

Isaiah obviously does not mean that Eliakim is God the Father. In Isaiah 9:5 he means that the Messiah as king of the new Israel (the kingdom of God) will be like a father to his people forever.

This matches what I found using e-sword's net Bible...

Like I said earlier, we need to look at the scripture in question. What is the Book or Chapter about? What are the verses before and after saying?

You can buy the expanded e-sword edition of the Net Bible. Please do so as it’s loaded with extra data and variant readings. Just a note. The net people believe in the trinity yet look how they handle this verse. Note the red numbers for reference to the comments. They did a good job of trying to be non-bias here.

Net Bible Isa 9:6 For a child has been15 born to us, son has been given to us. He shoulders Responsibility and is called:16 Extraordinary Strategist,17 Mighty God,18 Everlasting Father,19 Prince of Peace.20

17 Since Isa_11:2 points out that this king will receive the spirit of the Lord, which will enable him to counsel, it is possible to argue that the king's counsel is "extraordinary" because it finds its source in the divine spirit. (Anointed) Thus this title does not necessarily suggest that the ruler is deity

18 tn âÌÄáÌåÉø (gibbor) is probably an attributive adjective ("mighty God"), though one might translate "God is a warrior" or "God is mighty." Scholars have interpreted this title is two ways. A number of them have argued that the title portrays the king as God's representative on the battlefield, whom God empowers in a supernatural way (see J. H. Hayes and S. A. Irvine, Isaiah, 181-82). They contend that this sense seems more likely in the original context of the prophecy. They would suggest that having read the NT, we might in retrospect interpret this title as indicating the coming king's deity, but it is unlikely that Isaiah or his audience would have understood the title in such a bold way. Psa_45:6 addresses the Davidic king as "God" because he ruled and fought as God's representative on earth.

19 tn This title must not be taken in an anachronistic Trinitarian sense. (To do so would be theologically problematic, for the "Son" is the messianic king and is distinct in his person from God the "Father.") Rather, in its original context the title pictures the king as the protector of his people. For a similar use of "father" see Isa_22:21 and Job_29:16. This figurative, idiomatic use of "father" is not limited to the Bible. In a Phoenician inscription (ca. 850-800 B.C.) the ruler Kilamuwa declares: "To some I was a father, to others I was a mother." In another inscription (ca. 800 B.C.) the ruler Azitawadda boasts that the god Baal made him "a father and a mother" to his people. (See ANET 499-500.) The use of "everlasting" might suggest the deity of the king (as the one who has total control over eternity), but Isaiah and his audience may have understood the term as royal hyperbole emphasizing the king's long reign or enduring dynasty is literally realized in the ultimate fulfillment of the prophecy, for Jesus will rule eternally.

20 tn This title pictures the king as one who establishes a safe socio-economic environment for his people. It hardly depicts him as a meek individual, for he establishes peace through military strength (as the preceding context and the first two royal titles indicate). His people experience safety and prosperity because their invincible king destroys their enemies. See Psalms 72 and 144 for parallels to these theme.

Also important to note are the words in the verse. You will note most of the translations read… “will be called” or “shall be called” This is more of a concept of agency than actually being. There is a big difference between being call something, as in(agency) and actually being. No translations ever read “He Is. ”

This verse is actually a great example of how a western mind can read a verse literally and come away with a completely wrong impression. The Hebraic back ground is needed to fully understand this verse as it was intended to be understood!

Paul

Isn't Phoenix in the West?

What are your qualifications as a translator of the Bible and explainer of the pure truth?

 

[pierac]

Isn't Phoenix in the West?

What are your qualifications as a translator of the Bible and explainer of the pure truth?

The Holy Spirit.... Silly child!!!

1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Same as every one here....
What??? You think you or I are special??? We see what God wants us to see.... nothing more... nothing less!!!

NASB Phi 2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
CEV Phi 2:13 God is working in you to make you willing and able to obey him.

NASB Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. 31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?

How can you not understand this verse... It's sooo biblical....

NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

CEV Act 13:48 This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord.

BTY.... There is no burning in some Greek Hell for eternity for those whom are not chosen...
1Ti 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

1Co 15:19 If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

You don't see it do you? I'm so sorry!
Paul

 

[Free]

The 144,000 you believe to be the only saved ... is a far cry from all men...

1Ti 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

NASB Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure';

You starting to understand?
Paul

For the record, neither of you are saying that only 144,000 will be saved. keiw1 has been the only one to state that because they are the only one that is JW.

 

[for_his_glory]

The 144,000 you believe to be the only saved ... is a far cry from all men...

I never said the 144,000 were the only ones to be saved. That was someone else that said that as I disagreed with them.

 

[for_his_glory]

For the record, neither of you are saying that only 144,000 will be saved. keiw1 has been the only one to state that because they are the only one that is JW.

pierac has been banned for seven days from this thread for telling others they are wrong.

 

[keiw1]

Friend, that is what you believe because the Society has hidden the truth from your eyes. Jesus is the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and the Omega, the very Word of God who verbalizes the thoughts of God making them concrete reality. For example:

"In the Beginning, God SAID let there be light", that was Jesus the WORD of God creating the light---by verbalizing God's thought.

That is revealed in the book of the revelation of Jesus Christ:

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:8 NKJ)

11 saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band.
14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire;
15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters;
16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength.
17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. (Rev. 1:11-17 NKJ)

13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star." (Rev. 22:13-16 NKJ)

Rev 1:8 is Jehovah not Jesus. Jesus is the first and last in a few things, Created direct-first and last= The firstborn of all creation. Any who can understand english for themselves knows its fact. Creation occurred at the beginning, Jesus is firstborn= only begotten son.

 

[keiw1]

I have often read figures such as 34,000, which is nonsense. Where do you get this data from? Certainly not the Bible. There is one body of Christ.

Are you claiming that you have been taught directly by Jesus and others haven't? If so, what is the basis for your claim?

It seems that you are filled with pride of self and judgement of others.

Wikipedia has lists of different named ones. The bible has judged -a house divided will not stand.

 

[keiw1]

For the record, neither of you are saying that only 144,000 will be saved. keiw1 has been the only one to state that because they are the only one that is JW.

No i didnt say that. I said the little flock=144,000= the bride of Christ to rule as kings and priests alongside Jesus on thrones. Only they are promised heaven. The Great crowd of other sheep which no man can number are the only other ones getting saved-They get this promise-Matt 5:5-Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth. Psalm 37:29-- The righteous themselves will possess the earth and reside forever upon it. Prov 2:21-22, Matt 24:22 shows they will be brought through the trib and Armageddon on earth.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Rev 1:8 is Jehovah not Jesus. Jesus is the first and last in a few things, Created direct-first and last= The firstborn of all creation. Any who can understand english for themselves knows its fact. Creation occurred at the beginning, Jesus is firstborn= only begotten son.

No, the versus prove "I, Jesus" is the first and the last. You obey men, not God.

But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: "We ought to obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:29 NKJ)

 

[jaybo]

Wikipedia has lists of different named ones. The bible has judged -a house divided will not stand.

I asked you where you got the data that says that there are 34,000 denominations and this is your answer? You're joking. Where did you get the figure of 34,000 denominations?

I also asked you if you are claiming that you have been taught directly by Jesus and others haven't? If so, what is the basis for your claim? And you didn't respond.

Judging by your replies (or lack thereof), you have no basis for your claims.

 

[Free]

YHWH(Jehovah)

You seem to have missed my response to this:

Correct. So lets look at Heb 1:8-12:

‘8 But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners.” 10 And: “You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands. 11 They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they will all grow old, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out.’ (NWT)

Compare:

Psalm 102:25 Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth itself, And the heavens are the work of your hands. 26 They will perish, but you will remain; Just like a garment they will all wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will pass away. 27 But you are the same, and your years will never end. 28 The children of your servants will dwell securely, And their offspring will be firmly established before you.” (NWT)

Notice that Heb 1:8 says God is saying this “with reference to the Son,” yet, as you said, in Psalm 102 it is speaking of Jehovah. So, is the writer of Hebrews wrong? How do you explain a passage in Psalms that is clearly speaking about God, being clearly applied to Jesus by God in Hebrews?

 

[for_his_glory]

Rev 1:8 is Jehovah not Jesus. Jesus is the first and last in a few things, Created direct-first and last= The firstborn of all creation. Any who can understand english for themselves knows its fact. Creation occurred at the beginning, Jesus is firstborn= only begotten son.

Jesus is first and last in all things being Alpha and Omega, no beginning and no end as these below scriptures verify this.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

According to just these few scriptures, as there are many more, shows that Jesus has always been as He was never created by God like we are. The doctrines of the Watchtower Society are false as is their rewritten Bible that adds to and takes away from the true word of God who gave the Prophets and Apostles to write. Anyone who goes against their teachings are disfellowshipped from the Watchtower Society and will not go to heaven. Below is what they teach on salvation.


Salvation requires that one accept Bible doctrines as interpreted by the Governing Body, be baptized as a Jehovah's Witness and follow the program of works as laid out by the Governing Body.

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that they believe in the grace of God and that one does not earn salvation by their works. While they give lip service to God’s grace, their actions indicate differently. Consider the policy of making a disfellowshipped person earn their way back into the congregation. Remember you must be a Jehovah’s Witness "in good standing" to survive the end times, and to remain in good standing you must follow the rules and works set out by the Watchtower Organization. If someone breaks a rule, the elders decide whether that person is repentant or not, if they decide they are not repentant they are disfellowshipped. A disfellowshipped witness will not survive the time of the end. Think about it, they are deciding who deserves God’s grace and who does not.

 

[for_his_glory]

No i didnt say that. I said the little flock=144,000= the bride of Christ to rule as kings and priests alongside Jesus on thrones. Only they are promised heaven. The Great crowd of other sheep which no man can number are the only other ones getting saved-They get this promise-Matt 5:5-Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth. Psalm 37:29-- The righteous themselves will possess the earth and reside forever upon it. Prov 2:21-22, Matt 24:22 shows they will be brought through the trib and Armageddon on earth.

Where is 144,000 found in scripture other than Rev 7:1-8?

Are you claiming the JW's are Jews as that is what Rev 7 is showing us.

 

[keiw1]

No, the versus prove "I, Jesus" is the first and the last. You obey men, not God.

But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: "We ought to obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:29 NKJ)

Try believing Jesus then. here is a comparison for you
John 17:3--This means eternal life, their knowing you(Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus.
Trinity clergy-God is a trinity
one of those is in error. Its not Jesus.

 

[keiw1]

I asked you where you got the data that says that there are 34,000 denominations and this is your answer? You're joking. Where did you get the figure of 34,000 denominations?

I also asked you if you are claiming that you have been taught directly by Jesus and others haven't? If so, what is the basis for your claim? And you didn't respond.

Judging by your replies (or lack thereof), you have no basis for your claims.

I am taught by the teachers Jesus appointed-Matt 24:45 are those teachers. And at the proper time, truths get revealed through them.

 

[keiw1]

You seem to have missed my response to this:

Correct. So lets look at Heb 1:8-12:

‘8 But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners.” 10 And: “You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands. 11 They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they will all grow old, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out.’ (NWT)

Compare:

Psalm 102:25 Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth itself, And the heavens are the work of your hands. 26 They will perish, but you will remain; Just like a garment they will all wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will pass away. 27 But you are the same, and your years will never end. 28 The children of your servants will dwell securely, And their offspring will be firmly established before you.” (NWT)

Notice that Heb 1:8 says God is saying this “with reference to the Son,” yet, as you said, in Psalm 102 it is speaking of Jehovah. So, is the writer of Hebrews wrong? How do you explain a passage in Psalms that is clearly speaking about God, being clearly applied to Jesus by God in Hebrews?

Hebrews is a quote of Psalm, so it is speaking of Jehovah in both spots. Because as you can see verse 8 clearly shows Jesus has a God and he has partners( Angels)- verse10 is Jehovah.

 

[keiw1]

Jesus is first and last in all things being Alpha and Omega, no beginning and no end as these below scriptures verify this.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

According to just these few scriptures, as there are many more, shows that Jesus has always been as He was never created by God like we are. The doctrines of the Watchtower Society are false as is their rewritten Bible that adds to and takes away from the true word of God who gave the Prophets and Apostles to write. Anyone who goes against their teachings are disfellowshipped from the Watchtower Society and will not go to heaven. Below is what they teach on salvation.


Salvation requires that one accept Bible doctrines as interpreted by the Governing Body, be baptized as a Jehovah's Witness and follow the program of works as laid out by the Governing Body.

Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that they believe in the grace of God and that one does not earn salvation by their works. While they give lip service to God’s grace, their actions indicate differently. Consider the policy of making a disfellowshipped person earn their way back into the congregation. Remember you must be a Jehovah’s Witness "in good standing" to survive the end times, and to remain in good standing you must follow the rules and works set out by the Watchtower Organization. If someone breaks a rule, the elders decide whether that person is repentant or not, if they decide they are not repentant they are disfellowshipped. A disfellowshipped witness will not survive the time of the end. Think about it, they are deciding who deserves God’s grace and who does not.

Jesus truth shows who is who

John 17:3-- This means eternal life, their knowing you(Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Christ Jesus.

Trinity clergy--God is a trinity

Someone is in error, its not Jesus.

 

[keiw1]

Where is 144,000 found in scripture other than Rev 7:1-8?

Are you claiming the JW's are Jews as that is what Rev 7 is showing us.

Rev 14:3= 144,000--The Israelite religion is cut off( Matt 23:38-39) Thus spiritual Israel is who the revelation writer speaks of=Gods chosen, its not literal Israel. John had no clue what the religion would be called in the last days, he referred to them as Israel, just meaning Gods chosen. Many things are disguised in revelation.