Under the Law - what does it mean?

[JLB]

Well do you think that the gentiles in the world can be justified by the law but the Jews could not? Does the law not still bear witness to all mens sin?

To answer your question -

The Language "Ministry of Death" and "yoke of bondage" was a reference to trying to keep the law of Moses as a means to salvation.

Another words The Law that was added to a covenant that they were already in, became a "ministry of death and "a yoke of bondage" when they turned in into a religion called Judaism, whereby you earned salvation by keeping the works of the law.



The Law of Moses is obsolete and has Vanished away. Hebrews 8:13

The law was added until the Seed should come...

The Seed, Christ has come, Therefore the Law has vanished away.

The Law of Moses was never applicable to uncircumcised Gentiles, unless the Gentiles were circumcised and chose to convert.

One Example:

48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. 49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you."
Never was the Law of Moses applicable to Gentiles outside of Israel, and who had never heard the law.

The only Law that condemned the whole world to death was the law of sin and death that Adam violated, as a consequence sin entered the world and death to all men.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned. Romans 5:12


JLB

Im not sure what point you think that makes? The Law was to make sin known "exceeding sinful"
The fact that a large part of the chruch believes they are under the law in part is clear. Many are attempting to justify themselves by the the Ten Commandments in part or whole.

Ro 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Therefore connects this statement to what was said in plain words before.

Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter

I do not see how you could expect anyone to accept your understanding, and ignore what is written in clear terms and in clear context?

George, I expect you to connect the context of what Paul is saying here -

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 7:23-8:2

By rightly dividing the word, we see the "other law" is a reference to the law of sin and death that is working in our members.

By saying "another law" the Holy Spirit is indicating this law to be another law apart from the law previously mentioned in the preceding verse 22.


22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.


So as I said, the law of sin and death, that works in all of us, because
through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned- is most certainly not the ten commandments.
JLB

 

[Elijah674]

And why a question when it has been CLEARLY STATED? Is that not how satan works! (has God said, ...)

-Elijah

 

[JLB]

And why a question when it has been CLEARLY STATED? Is that not how satan works! (has God said, ...)

-Elijah

Satan works by accusing the brethren. He is the accuser of the brethren.

He works at bringing people into the bondage of the law, by judging them concerning the matters of Moses law, therefore by guilt and condemnation he compels them to keep the law of Moses, when that law has clearly vanished away.

The law of Moses is obsolete and has vanished away.

as it is written -

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

We now have access to the substance, and have no need of the shadow.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

Well do you think that the gentiles in the world can be justified by the law but the Jews could not? Does the law not still bear witness to all mens sin?

To answer your question -

The Language "Ministry of Death" and "yoke of bondage" was a reference to trying to keep the law of Moses as a means to salvation.

Another words The Law that was added to a covenant that they were already in, became a "ministry of death and "a yoke of bondage" when they turned in into a religion called Judaism, whereby you earned salvation by keeping the works of the law.



The Law of Moses is obsolete and has Vanished away. Hebrews 8:13

The law was added until the Seed should come...

The Seed, Christ has come, Therefore the Law has vanished away.

The Law of Moses was never applicable to uncircumcised Gentiles, unless the Gentiles were circumcised and chose to convert.

One Example:

48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it. 49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you."
Never was the Law of Moses applicable to Gentiles outside of Israel, and who had never heard the law.

The only Law that condemned the whole world to death was the law of sin and death that Adam violated, as a consequence sin entered the world and death to all men.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned. Romans 5:12


JLB

Im not sure what point you think that makes? The Law was to make sin known "exceeding sinful"
The fact that a large part of the chruch believes they are under the law in part is clear. Many are attempting to justify themselves by the the Ten Commandments in part or whole.

Ro 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Therefore connects this statement to what was said in plain words before.

Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter

I do not see how you could expect anyone to accept your understanding, and ignore what is written in clear terms and in clear context?

George, I expect you to connect the context of what Paul is saying here -

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 7:23-8:2


By rightly dividing the word, we see the "other law" is a reference to the law of sin and death that is working in our members.

By saying "another law" the Holy Spirit is indicating this law to be another law apart from the law previously mentioned in the preceding verse 22.





22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.


So as I said, the law of sin and death, that works in all of us, because




through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned- is most certainly not the ten commandments.
JLB

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
The strength of sin is the law. One cannot be dilivered from sin until one is dilivered from the law.

Now you are taking part of the truth and trying to ingnore the rest, it is the ten commandments that is the ministry of death. ( which you also seem to ignore)

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,

Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[JLB]

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 7:23-8:2 By rightly dividing the word, we see the "other law" is a reference to the law of sin and death that is working in our members.

Please stay with the context of the scripture in question which is Romans 8:2.

Why would you ignore the clear context going back to Romans 7 starting where Paul introduces "another law" into His legal argument.

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 7:23-8:2

The other law in our members.

Other than what? Other than the Law of God in verse 22.

22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul is contrasting the two laws, the law of God according to the inward man and "another law' in my members.

The law of sin and death working in my members vs the Law of God in the inner man.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

Please stay with the context of the scripture in question which is Romans 8:2.

Why would you ignore the clear context going back to Romans 7 starting where Paul introduces "another law" into His legal argument.

Ignore the rest of the bible? and you call that context? No that is a weak aurgument that can not stand under the test of truth. And so what that Paul points to the sin in us? He makes clear that apart from the law, sin is dead and it is the law that produces sinful desires in the flesh. It is the commandment that brings death, and produces sinful desires that awakens and strengthens the law of sin.

Ro 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

So being set free from the law, we are set free from sin. Thus Paul writes;

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

 

[Joe Domingo]

He makes clear that apart from the law, sin is dead and it is the law
that produces sinful desires in the flesh.

This makes non sense whatsoever.

The nature of sin is already in us. South American natives who have no clue of the Law of God sin all the time.

 

[Elijah674]

What does it mean to be "under the law"?

Who's Law? What part of the Law? What is the Law?

The following scriptures are found in the New Testament of the Bible that include this phrase:

Rom_3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
1Co_9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co_9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
Gal_3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal_4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal_4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal_4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Also, how can one be "under the law to Christ"?

And why does Paul place emphasis on "being not without law to God"?

There is a total of six individual questions here, feel free to answer any one of them if not all of them. But please, may I ask that responders please keep clarity by answering the questions one at a time.

I hope that this thread will become a good teaching point for all of its participants.

Hey, here is some more Truth from a guy that goes by HHH. (?) But it is an A+!

GAL 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

GAL 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

1TI 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;



For liars,for perjured persons...
Jacob

GEN 27:21 And Isaac said unto Jacob, Come near, I pray thee, that I may feel thee, my son, whether thou be my very son Esau or not.
22 And Jacob went near unto Isaac his father; and he felt him, and said, The voice is Jacob's voice, but the hands are the hands of Esau.
23 And he discerned him not, because his hands were hairy, as his brother Esau's hands: so he blessed him.
24 And he said, Art thou my very son Esau? And he said, I am.

For liars, and perjured persons.... Aaron.

EXO 32:2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

EXO 32:22 And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief.
23 For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
24 And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf.25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies)

For manslayers, the sons of Jacob

GEN 34:8 And Hamor communed with them, saying, The soul of my son Shechem longeth for your daughter: I pray you give her him to wife.
9 And make ye marriages with us, and give your daughters unto us, and take our daughters unto you.
10 And ye shall dwell with us: and the land shall be before you; dwell and trade ye therein, and get you possessions therein.
11 And Shechem said unto her father and unto her brethren, Let me find grace in your eyes, and what ye shall say unto me I will give.
12 Ask me never so much dowry and gift, and I will give according as ye shall say unto me: but give me the damsel to wife.
13 And the sons of Jacob answered Shechem and Hamor his father deceitfully, and said, because he had defiled Dinah their sister:

GEN 34:18 And their words pleased Hamor, and Shechem Hamor's son.
19 And the young man deferred not to do the thing, because he had delight in Jacob's daughter: and he was more honourable than all the house of his father.
20 And Hamor and Shechem his son came unto the gate of their city, and communed with the men of their city, saying,
21 These men are peaceable with us; therefore let them dwell in the land, and trade therein; for the land, behold, it is large enough for them; let us take their daughters to us for wives, and let us give them our daughters.
22 Only herein will the men consent unto us for to dwell with us, to be one people, if every male among us be circumcised, as they are circumcised.

GEN 34:25 And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.

For manslayers, the sons of Jacob

GEN 37:17 And the man said, They are departed hence; for I heard them say, Let us go to Dothan. And Joseph went after his brethren, and found them in Dothan.
18 And when they saw him afar off, even before he came near unto them, they conspired against him to slay him.
19 And they said one to another, Behold, this dreamer cometh.
20 Come now therefore, and let us slay him, and cast him into some pit, and we will say, Some evil beast hath devoured him: and we shall see what will become of his dreams.

For menstealers, the sons of Jacob

GEN 37:26 And Judah said unto his brethren, What profit is it if we slay our brother, and conceal his blood?
27 Come, and let us sell him to the Ishmeelites, and let not our hand be upon him; for he is our
brother and our flesh. And his brethren were content.

For whoremongers, Judah

GEN 38:15 When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face.
16 And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me?
17 And he said, I will send thee a kid from the flock. And she said, Wilt thou give me a pledge, till thou send it?
18 And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him.

1TI 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane,

JER 23:11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.

EZE 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

 

[Joe Domingo]

WO on that last verse! Hammer has hit the Nail at the cross hairs.

P.S. Excellent presentation!

Elijah man! Has to be the best response yet

 

[JLB]

Please stay with the context of the scripture in question which is Romans 8:2.

Why would you ignore the clear context going back to Romans 7 starting where Paul introduces "another law" into His legal argument.

Ignore the rest of the bible? and you call that context? No that is a weak aurgument that can not stand under the test of truth. And so what that Paul points to the sin in us? He makes clear that apart from the law, sin is dead and it is the law that produces sinful desires in the flesh. It is the commandment that brings death, and produces sinful desires that awakens and strengthens the law of sin.

Ro 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

So being set free from the law, we are set free from sin. Thus Paul writes;

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

Okay Brother,

Quoting the preceding verses to discover the context of the actual scripture we were discussing is a weak argument.

Sorry for wasting your time.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

Please stay with the context of the scripture in question which is Romans 8:2.

Why would you ignore the clear context going back to Romans 7 starting where Paul introduces "another law" into His legal argument.

Ignore the rest of the bible? and you call that context? No that is a weak aurgument that can not stand under the test of truth. And so what that Paul points to the sin in us? He makes clear that apart from the law, sin is dead and it is the law that produces sinful desires in the flesh. It is the commandment that brings death, and produces sinful desires that awakens and strengthens the law of sin.

Ro 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

So being set free from the law, we are set free from sin. Thus Paul writes;

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

Okay Brother,

Quoting the preceding verses to discover the context of the actual scripture we were discussing is a weak argument.

Sorry for wasting your time.


JLB

Not the preceding verses, but "selected" verses that taken without the whole counsel of the gospel are only part of the truth, and it was
not a waste of time, I have thought much about this "law of sin" since you made your point. That is not the Ten Commandments alone that makes the "law of sin and death" but it is the Commmandments that are laid upon a sinful man (flesh) that gives the power to sin and death. But again the object is the commandments of the law.

Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[George Muller]

He makes clear that apart from the law, sin is dead and it is the law
that produces sinful desires in the flesh.

This makes non sense whatsoever.

The nature of sin is already in us. South American natives who have no clue of the Law of God sin all the time.

Yes so does every man that has lived since Adam, save the Lord who bore the sins of those who believe. Paul is explaining why man cannot serve and know God through the law.

Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

The Pharisee of Pharisees, could not keep the law, how deceived are those who think they are?

Mt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven

 

[John 8:32]

The Pharisee of Pharisees, could not keep the law, how deceived are those who think they are?

Mt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven

I always find this type of thinking amusing. I cannot keep God's law perfectly in the flesh, so I will not even try. I'll just live any way I want to and God will accept me because I love God and He loves me...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

And what would Christ know?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Joe Domingo]

Paul is explaining why man cannot serve and know God through the law.

But why would I want to do this if I have Christ?

Do you actually think I am trying to know God by keeping his Law? Now you have me second guessing myself - did I say that somewhere?

Ok let me go on record here...

I observe Shabbat because it is benefits me to do so. The same way I observe "do not commit adultery" because it benefits me and my wife. We stay happy together. We don't break each other's hearts. The children have a happy home and not a broken home. God approves our marriage and sanctifies it. I wont get an STD.

I mean the benefits of not committing adultery are wonderful.

Why do I do this? LOVE I do it out of love. I love my wife so I devote myself to her. And if there is any other commandment I do it out of love. If I say I keep Shabbat or Sabbath rest I do it out of my love for God. It's my time to spend with him. I don't know about anyone else but when I'm working I don't spend a lot of time with the Lord - so I look forward to taking that whole day and setting it aside to worship and adore the King, which is just a mere shadow of good things to come in eternity.

So am I under the Law? From my perspective it sure doesn't feel or sound like it. I am quite full of joy and feel as free as I can be.

Take even eating Pork ... am I free to eat it? In this country I am - so I can just go ahead and get me some pork chops ... but are they healthy for me?

Now - if I told someone I wont eat pork chops because the Law said so - I am a legalist. But if I tell somebody I wont eat pork chops because they are unhealthy for me then they will not have anything to say. Now truth is - that pork chops are unhealthy and it comes from an unclean animal - so when you think about it - how can you go wrong if you want to take care of your body because you love what the Lord has provided for you to live in and you want to be a good steward of your body.

I think sometimes we are all saying the same thing but we want to champion the argument for some reason.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Being under the law does not mean keeping the requirements of the law. Being away from Christ and under the authority of the law and, thus, still in bondage to sin is what it means to be under the law.

Being 'under the law' is not a good thing.

 

[smaller]

Being under the law does not mean keeping the requirements of the law. Being away from Christ and under the authority of the law and, thus, still in bondage to sin is what it means to be under the law.

Being 'under the law' is not a good thing.

Why any believer has 'issues' with their own indwelling sin and evil present to be 'under the law' is beyond my understanding.

We all as believers should be entirely O.K. with God in Christ being against sin and evil, even if we 'have same' and we all do.

So maybe we should all get over it and deal with the fact that:

a. Sin and evil is not blessed under Grace

and

b. Sin and evil is not legally obedient

I hope and pray that someday God in Christ leads both sides of believers engaged in the ignorant debate to simply get real/honest about the facts and move on.

But I know, that is asking a LOT from believers.

s

 

[JLB]

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

God commanded Adam not to eat of the tree in the Garden.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Abraham walk with God and did what He commanded.

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Peter obeyed His command to go to the house of Cornelius, and by obeying this command, the gentiles were introduced to the Gospel.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Paul obeyed God's command not to go to Asia, when he was commanded.

Now when they had gone through Phrygia and the region of Galatia, they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to preach the word in Asia. Acts 16:6

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Noah obeyed God and moved with godly fear, when commanded to build an Ark.


These are just a few examples of keeping God's commands and obeying.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Jesus said -

Why do you call Me Lord, and not do what I say?


JLB

 

[Joe Domingo]

No argument here Smaller, with one exception ...
I'm not legally obedient, I am lovingly obedient ...

There is a difference between the two ...

The first is to declare yourself righteous by your works...

The second is to know you are a sinner but out of your love for God and through his grace, you continue to try and do the right thing as much as you can, and when you fall, Abba father will pick you back up. This is called going on to perfection. It is a forward thinking and never ending journey throughout your lifespan. Paul said I press toward the mark of the high calling of Jesus Christ.

That's what I do and that's how I live.

My name is Joe Domingo and I approve this message

I hope and pray that someday God in Christ leads both sides of believers
engaged in the ignorant
debate to simply get real/honest about the facts and move
on.

This is NOT applicable to me.

 

[smaller]

Ahhhh but my Inner man can be Smalllller lol

The 'inner man' of anyone should be able to come to the truthful conclusion that the sin and evil present we all factually have is not legally obedient, under grace, lovingly obedient or any other 'angles' they can come up with to avoid the simple facts.

I wasn't speaking of my sinful nature.

You understand there is no escaping the fact that we have sin and evil present and that working is in fact rightfully exposed and condemned under the Law?

I have no issues with that being a fact.

We are all sentenced to death in the flesh because of the presence of indwelling sin and evil present.

There is no escaping this conclusion by any amount of theological gymnastics.

Unfortunately the bulk of internet theology is engaged in whistling past the graveyard on this particular subject matter.

Do you remember what Paul said about his inner man?

I'm not all that interested in 'excusing the obviously conclusions' on the basis of our 'inner man' either. The inner man should be able to engage in truthful dialog, at a minimum. Anything less than brutal honesty when it comes to this subject is merely a sign of internal deception ruling over truthful dialog.

s