Understanding God’s election

[Dougcho]

I have not swamped the OP with a lot of Scripture quotations,
but hopefully you will recall the NT verses which confirm the following …

Man is doubly incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel
1 – Because of the disobedience (sin) of Adam and Eve,
all humans are born with an inherited sin nature,
and are bent on sinning instead of following God (Romans 3:9-18).
Having a saving faith is against their very nature!
2 - All unsaved humans are captive prisoners of Satan,
and are bent on doing whatever he wants them to do (2 Timothy 2:26).
Jesus came to set the captives of Satan free (Luke 4:18).
Having a saving faith is against our enemy’s plans for them,
which, of course, is spending eternity with Satan and his demons in hell.
If the God-worshipping Lydia (Acts 16:14) needs God to give her the necessary
faith to believe in Jesus and the Gospel, surely everyone does also!
Similarly, the “anyones” who believe in Jesus in verses such as John 3:16
are the ones whom God has given saving faith!

Father God elects (chooses) and calls whomever He wishes
Jesus says to the elect, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you ….” (John 16:15).
Surely, here is a strong hint that we should investigate this matter further.
Romans chapter 9 is the most famous proponent of God’s election …
“… that the purpose of election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls.
… So then, it is not of him who wills (to be elected, chosen, and called),
nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.” (Romans 9:11-16)
God gives grace to whomever He chooses, but no one deserves grace (unmerited favor)!
God gives justice to whomever He chooses, and everyone deserves justice!
God wishes that all could be saved, but it is not possible because He insists on His justice.
“You love justice and hate evil.” (Hebrews 1”9)
God is not willing that any (of us) should perish, but that all (of us) should repent …
… the “us” referring to His elect, who are promised salvation.
Christians are called to confess and repent of their on-going sins,
and the blood of Jesus will cleanse them of all their unrighteousness (1 John 1:7-9).

The reason why Father God chooses some, but not others
Father God chooses to elect some people for His great pleasure.
He chooses to elect some to demonstrate to the whole world
His great love, mercy, grace, etc. (Romans 9:23).
He chooses to elect some to be companions for His Son throughout eternity (Scriptural?).
Those not chosen are given justice, which sadly is what they deserve.

Those whom Father God gives to Jesus are guaranteed salvation
This is all about the unconditional security of the born-again believer.
Multitudes of NT verses are God’s promises of salvation given to His elect.
Surely, those of us who are born again should be continually praising God and
thanking Him for choosing us … and for the Holy Spirit sanctifying us unto holiness
… and for Jesus interceding for us before Father God in heaven.

 

[hawkman]

Father God elects (chooses) and calls whomever He wishes
Jesus says to the elect, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you ….” (John 16:15).

Wow ! You are breaking some new ground with this statement , could you explain further how John 16:15 demonstrates what you say it does .

 

[electedbyHim]

Wow ! You are breaking some new ground with this statement , could you explain further how John 16:15 demonstrates what you say it does .

Pretty certain OP meant John 15:16.

 

[JLB]

I have not swamped the OP with a lot of Scripture quotations,
but hopefully you will recall the NT verses which confirm the following …

Man is doubly incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel
1 – Because of the disobedience (sin) of Adam and Eve,
all humans are born with an inherited sin nature,
and are bent on sinning instead of following God (Romans 3:9-18).
Having a saving faith is against their very nature!
2 - All unsaved humans are captive prisoners of Satan,
and are bent on doing whatever he wants them to do (2 Timothy 2:26).
Jesus came to set the captives of Satan free (Luke 4:18).
Having a saving faith is against our enemy’s plans for them,
which, of course, is spending eternity with Satan and his demons in hell.
If the God-worshipping Lydia (Acts 16:14) needs God to give her the necessary
faith to believe in Jesus and the Gospel, surely everyone does also!
Similarly, the “anyones” who believe in Jesus in verses such as John 3:16
are the ones whom God has given saving faith!

Father God elects (chooses) and calls whomever He wishes
Jesus says to the elect, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you ….” (John 16:15).
Surely, here is a strong hint that we should investigate this matter further.
Romans chapter 9 is the most famous proponent of God’s election …
“… that the purpose of election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls.
… So then, it is not of him who wills (to be elected, chosen, and called),
nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.” (Romans 9:11-16)
God gives grace to whomever He chooses, but no one deserves grace (unmerited favor)!
God gives justice to whomever He chooses, and everyone deserves justice!
God wishes that all could be saved, but it is not possible because He insists on His justice.
“You love justice and hate evil.” (Hebrews 1”9)
God is not willing that any (of us) should perish, but that all (of us) should repent …
… the “us” referring to His elect, who are promised salvation.
Christians are called to confess and repent of their on-going sins,
and the blood of Jesus will cleanse them of all their unrighteousness (1 John 1:7-9).

The reason why Father God chooses some, but not others
Father God chooses to elect some people for His great pleasure.
He chooses to elect some to demonstrate to the whole world
His great love, mercy, grace, etc. (Romans 9:23).
He chooses to elect some to be companions for His Son throughout eternity (Scriptural?).
Those not chosen are given justice, which sadly is what they deserve.

Those whom Father God gives to Jesus are guaranteed salvation
This is all about the unconditional security of the born-again believer.
Multitudes of NT verses are God’s promises of salvation given to His elect.
Surely, those of us who are born again should be continually praising God and
thanking Him for choosing us … and for the Holy Spirit sanctifying us unto holiness
… and for Jesus interceding for us before Father God in heaven.

Welcome to the Forum.


God bless you.

 

[JLB]

Surely, here is a strong hint that we should investigate this matter further.
Romans chapter 9 is the most famous proponent of God’s election …
“… that the purpose of election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls.

Amen.

Great verse!

Election for purpose, not election for salvation.

And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
Romans 9:10-11

We know what the purpose is from the context of Romans 9.


I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:1-5

• of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came,

The purpose of election is for the election of the bloodline lineage of Christ.


Notice in the verse you quoted that the subject is about Rebecca conceiving Isaac.


And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
Romans 9:10-11


So election had to do with whom God was electing to be the lineage of Christ, not who God was electing to be saved or not.





JLB

 

[Fastfredy0]

Father God elects (chooses) and calls whomever He wishes
Jesus says to the elect, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you ….” (John 16:15).

Wow ! You are breaking some new ground with this statement , could you explain further how John 16:15 demonstrates what you say it does .

I agree will Doug's post except two points.
1) Minor point ... I think as electedbyHim pointed out there is a typo and verse is John15:16
2) I think the audience for John 15:16 is Christ's disciples and therefore cannot be used to support his assertion as to the elect being chosen where the elect is the group of all people written in the book of life. One might argue that by extension, all Christians are included by that is an assumption that would need more proof.

That being said there are plenty of other verses supporting Doug's point that the elect were chosen of God and the elect did not affect the selection:

• Acts 4:28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined [before the creation of the world] to occur [and so without knowing it, they served Your own purpose].
• Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed (decided on beforehand; designated) for eternal life believed.
• Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion [nations cannot “will” or “exert”], but on God, who has mercy
• 1 Cor. 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.
• Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of His glorious grace and favor, which He so freely bestowed on us in the Beloved [His Son, Jesus Christ].

I could list another 50 verses

Other terms indicating God choosing the elect:
Elect, chosen, appointed, predestined, “known by God”, foreknowledge, sheep

 

[Dougcho]

Wow ! You are breaking some new ground with this statement , could you explain further how John 16:15 demonstrates what you say it does .

The OP tries to prove that God elects/chooses/calls whomever He wishes to
... He has His particular reasons for who they are!
And I've tried to prove that fallen man (who is also a captive of Satan)
is simply unable to choose Jesus and the Gospel.
Jesus says: we don't choose Him ... He chooses us.

 

[Dougcho]

Pretty certain OP meant John 15:16.

Yes, for sure! ... I apologize for that.

 

[hawkman]

And I've tried to prove that fallen man (who is also a captive of Satan)
is simply unable to choose Jesus and the Gospel.

As many have tried but would you explain Cornelius, a centurion it would indicate he has chosen God in Acts chapter 10 .

1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

3He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

4And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

 

[Fastfredy0]

As many have tried but would you explain Cornelius, a centurion it would indicate he has chosen God in Acts chapter 10 .

We all chose God. The pertinent question is why did one choose God. The verse does not say WHY.

There are tons of verses that say why one chooses God. Here's one that not only says God causes his sheep to be born again but then goes on to tell nay sayers that people are NOT born again by their will him.

John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the right [the authority, the privilege] to become children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 who were born, not of blood [natural conception], nor of the will of the flesh [physical impulse], nor of the will of man [that of a natural father], but of God [that is, a divine and supernatural birth—they are born of God—spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified].

We are ADOPTED son of God. It is the parent that always does the adopting, not the child and thus God uses the word ADOPTED.

...because human do not see God's work via their 5 senses they assume they are the cause of all the choices... the bible says otherwise 100s of times.

Their are none so blind as those who cannot see.

 

[Dougcho]

Welcome to the Forum.


God bless you.

Many Thanks!

 

[Dougcho]

As many have tried but would you explain Cornelius, a centurion it would indicate he has chosen God in Acts chapter 10 .

1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

3He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

4And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

Cornelius didn't believe in Jesus on his own.
An angel came to him, and he called him "Lord".
This is even more reason to believe than Lydia's experience.

 

[Dougcho]

John 1:12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the right [the authority, the privilege] to become children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name— 13 who were born, not of blood [natural conception], nor of the will of the flesh [physical impulse], nor of the will of man [that of a natural father], but of God [that is, a divine and supernatural birth—they are born of God—spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified].

But, this is not talking about WHY they believe!
Did they believe on their own, or did God give them the faith to believe?

 

[Fastfredy0]

But, this is not talking about WHY they believe!
Did they believe on their own, or did God give them the faith to believe?

I disagree. This tells you why to a certain extent: it says people believe due to God's will and not the will of a person. God is the cause of salvific belief and the effect is men believe.
Now I grant it does not go into God's reason for saving some and it doesn't go into His method and other details, but it expresses plainly that people believe as caused by God's will and not their will.

Tom Constable states:
The antecedent of “who” is those who believe in Jesus’ name (v. 12). Their new life as children of God comes from God. It does not come because of their blood, namely, their physical ancestors. Many of the Jews believed that because they were Abraham’s descendants they were the spiritual children of God (cf. ch. 8; Rom. 4; Gal. 3). Even today some people think that the faith or works of their ancestors somehow guarantees their salvation. However, God has no grandchildren. People become the children of God by personally trusting in Christ.
New life does not come because of physical desire either. No amount of wanting it and striving for it will bring it. The only thing that will is belief in Jesus.
“The term ‘flesh’ (sarx) is not used by John to convey the idea of sinfulness, as it often does in Paul’s writings. . . . Rather, it is indicative of weakness and humiliation as seen in 1:14. It simply affirms that in the Incarnation Jesus became fully human.”
Third, new spiritual life does not come because of a human decision either, specifically, the choice of a husband to produce a child. It comes as the result of a spiritual decision to trust in Jesus Christ. The Greek word for “man” here is andros meaning “male.” The NIV interpreted it properly as “husband” here.
New spiritual life does not come from any of these sources but from God Himself. Ultimately it is the result of God’s choice, not man’s (cf. Eph. 1:4). Therefore the object of our faith must be God rather than our heritage or race, our works, or our own initiative.

 

[Dougcho]

Many years ago, I had 2 similar experiences during the same week:
1 – with my nephew in Ontario
2 – with a waitress in a London hotel
I gave both of them a Gospel tract, and the following morning …
they each said, “I tried hard to believe it, but I just can’t.”

I believe this falls into the category of
God having to give the necessary faith to a person
so he/she can believe in Jesus and the Gospel.

Have any of you had a similar experience?