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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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C
Catholic Crusader
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Idols? May I ask you to elaborate?MarkT said:
cyberjosh
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I'm not Mark, but I think idols can take any form - not necessarily just as physical objects. Idolatry can be adoration of the heart of something other than God (and Paul says idolaters will not inherit the Kingdom of God - Ephesians 5:5). I have no idea of the context in which this was brought up, but there's my 2-cents anyway. 
~Josh
~Josh
S
Scott1
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- #104
Amen Josh.... I think some of us as Christians slip into the sin of idolatry more often than we'd like.... anything that we place ahead of God: career, money, sports, SELF is idolatry.cybershark5886 said:
I don't think God cares MORE about the form of our worship, but rather searches our hearts.
Peace,
S
cybershark5886 said:I'm not Mark, but I think idols can take any form - not necessarily just as physical objects. Idolatry can be adoration of the heart of something other than God (and Paul says idolaters will not inherit the Kingdom of God - Ephesians 5:5). I have no idea of the context in which this was brought up, but there's my 2-cents anyway.
~Josh
At what point does it become an idol?
Just asking so i won't go swimming in a lake of fire :wink:
C
Catholic Crusader
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Absolutely correct! Not many people realize that. At the risk of straying of topic, I offer this about idolatry:cybershark5886 said:I'm not Mark, but I think idols can take any form - not necessarily just as physical objects. Idolatry can be adoration of the heart of something other than God (and Paul says idolaters will not inherit the Kingdom of God - Ephesians 5:5). I have no idea of the context in which this was brought up, but there's my 2-cents anyway.
~Josh
cyberjosh
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johnmuise said:cybershark5886 said:I'm not Mark, but I think idols can take any form - not necessarily just as physical objects. Idolatry can be adoration of the heart of something other than God (and Paul says idolaters will not inherit the Kingdom of God - Ephesians 5:5). I have no idea of the context in which this was brought up, but there's my 2-cents anyway.
~Josh
At what point does it become an idol?
Just asking so i won't go swimming in a lake of fire :wink:
I'd say when it becomes a high priority to you in a way that detracts from your service to God. Now not to say idols cannot be put away, for they most certainly can, but you can develop bad habits that build up to idolatry. You might also be able to say that strongholds (if you are walking headlong into them, not fighting to get out of them) could be idolatry in that you are taking delight in a vice over righteousness. I rebuke myself for this as well in places where I have failed in the past, but by God's grace he has helped me fight back hard, and it is no longer something I take delight in like I used to years ago.
These are general descriptions, but the idea is that if it detracts from God and is not something that is the occasional slip up but deliberate observance on a rather consistant basis it is probably becoming an idol to you. I hope you get the general idea though.
God Bless,
~Josh
C
Catholic Crusader
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Only if they become more important to you than God.johnmuise said:
cyberjosh
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Does it detract from your service to God? I made that qualification above. Perhaps if you are a drummer for Metallica you could say yes, where if perhaps you do it just for the love of it or, better yet, for your Church I'd probably say no. But aside from specific examples the real question is: "Does whatever it is detract from your service to God?"
God Bless,
~Josh
I
Imagican
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Scott1 said:
OH.........MY............Gosh............!!!!
Scot, you ARE indeed a 'man after God's own heart'. I say this NOT to 'be silly', but in utter AWE that you were WILLING to make such a statement.
What a 'REFRESHING' statement of FAITH and UNDERSTANDING. Instead of expounding upon my SURPRISE, just ACCEPT MY commendation in that I AM ABLE to SEE that The Spirit DOES reside in YOUR HEART. We ARE able to KNOW those that TRULY HAVE a 'desire' to LISTEN to and FOLLOW the Words of Christ, His apostles and the GUIDANCE OF The Spirit.
The fruit is UNABLE to fall FAR from the TREE.
Blessings, my brother.
MEC
I
Imagican
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- #113
johnmuise said:
Scot offered the TRUTH about as ACCURATELY as POSSIBLE. ANYTHING that you place ABOVE God or your NEIGHBOR IS IDOLOTRY.
And Scot, I take it from this offering that you are ABLE to come to CORRECT understanding in regards to; SOME ARE able to partake WITHOUT it interfering with their relationship to The Father. But OTHERS are ONLY able to 'replace' that which is ONLY to be offered TO GOD with MANY MANY 'other things'. Not ONLY physical 'things', but spiritual 'things' as well.
That MAN that would place HIS CAR above the WELLFARE of 'his NEIGHBOR' is UNABLE to experience the LOVE that we have been OFFERED in understanding. That woman that would place her 'soap operas' BEFORE her neighbor that NEEDS a sympathetic EAR. These are those that have LITTLE or NOT conception of the LOVE that has been offered IN the example of Christ.
Think about it folks. There IS no 'self' in WORSHIP. Worship is what we are LIABLE to GIVE. IF we 'give it to OURSELVES, then it is NOT a 'gift' but a 'matter of TAKING'. Selfishly DENYING that which we were DESIGNED to OFFER.
Just a 'few words' to the wise. MOST will DENY what has been offered here. But I can ASSURE you that IF you are UNABLE to come to an UNDERSTANDING of 'these words'. then there is LITTLE Spirit ABLE to guide you in TRUE understanding. If you be ONE OF THESE, drop to YOUR knees and ASK God to OPEN your eyes. BEG Him for UNDERSTANDING of The Truth. NOT the 'truth of this world, but the TRUTH that can ONLY be offered through Spirit.
Neat stuff folks. Forgive me for the interuption..............
Blessings,
MEC
C
Catholic Crusader
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C
Catholic Crusader
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Yep. MEC will keep you hoppin'
cyberjosh
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johnmuise said:cybershark5886 said:
Well i drum for my church/youth group but also for myself, i would say its about a 30/70 split.
Many things in my life are not devoted to god
My job
My hobbies (dogs,guns, pyro, drums etc etc)
My Music
etc
Not everything that we do is necessarily Godly in and of itself, but we must realize that no matter where we go the Spirit of the living God is in us and renewing us day by day to bring us closer to God. We are to conduct ourselves in an honorable fashion when we are among the world (job, hobbies with other people, school, etc.) and do everything we find our hand to do with all our strength, and in such a way we represent Christ by our firmness, our perseverance, our integrity, and our kind spirit of charity which we should demonstrate to others. In such a way we honor God and are a testimony among men. Also maybe there are things you do on your own by yourself for fun: thank God for these things that you can enjoy such simple pleasures. Sometimes even if I'm just watching a movie and kicking back I'll thank God for the simple blessing of rest, among my often busy life. Praise God in the simple things and it will build you up to be faithful with the big things.
May God Bless You,
~Josh
I
Imagican
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Here is a 'little' piece of 'insight' that I believe many have neglected to notice when discerning my posts. Indulge me for a monent of your time
When I make statements that condemn certain behavior or point the potential for negative effect, what I am pointing out is that MOST of us are supseptable to MUCH that 'could' be overcome.
Paul offers that NOTHING is ILLEGAL to HIM. This man had 'come to point' in his understanding and relationship that MUCH that HE could have DONE would utterly DESTROY 'some'. That is ALSO why he emphasized that WE ARE OUR BROTHERS KEEPERS. And that we should NEVER allow our FREEDOM to lead OTHERS astray. For what is ABLE to BE done by one may WELL lead another into temptation BEYOND their ability to OVERCOME.
It's difficult to discuss such issues while ADDING this concept. For MANY will NOT be able to discern that it takes a MATURITY or GROWTH FIRST in order to even UNDERSTAND what is being offered by Paul in his discussion of 'freedom'.
Example:
What may be able to negatively influence one, let's say 'art' or 'music', in a NEGATIVE manner, may WELL be able to be of NO influence what so ever in ANOTHER. The difference is the PLACE in one's walk that they have managed to accomplish in UNDERSTANDING. It is NOT the same for ALL.
One may be able to 'have a drink of wine' WITHOUT ANY NEGATIVE effects on their 'walk' WHATSOEVER. For they have reached a 'point' in the 'walk' that the alcohol has NO POWER over them. But another could WELL be led into a DEEP and DARK pit through partaking in that ONE DRINK. And it is UP TO US to be ABLE to discern that which is ABLE to cause our brothers to STUMBLE and for this cause, REFUSE to allow OUR freedom to HARM another.
Now, the TRICKY part; how does one DISCERN the difference in the position of their walk? I'm NOT EVEN going to 'get into this debate'. But, I offer what I offer in the HOPES that at least SOME are able to grasp what is stated here.
When I offer understanding concerning MANY issues, it is shuned by MANY for the REASON that 'perhaps' they have reached a level of Spiritual Maturity that would allow them to REMAIN unscathed by participation in that which is CERTAINLY able to lead another in the WRONG path. But MAYBE they just DON'T realize that their are MANY here that are DIFFERENT 'parts' of their journey. And for some of these, to offer that we are FREE in MANY respects is to offer a 'false sense of security' in that we are ONLY free so long as what we DO does NOT conflict with our walk in a NEGATIVE manner. And this NEGATIVITY is NOT ONLY in OUR WALK, but that which is being taken by OUR BROTHERS and SISTERS as well.
So, perhaps it would be BETTER for us to focus LESS our OUR PERSONAL liberty for the SAKE of our brothers and sisters. IF they REACH the point that they are TRULY FREE, then the KNOWLEDGE of this will be APPARENT in their OWN heart. So, focussing on that which is MOST productive in Spirituality would be MOST prudent. BEING our 'brothers KEEPERS' in a RESPONSIBLE manner instead of simply offering what WE think is OK for US as INDIVIDUALS.
I hope that this has been ABLE to clarify my position in regards to my responses on MANY issues of debate.
To sum it up: PAUL had obtained an understanding and a CEMENTED relationship that was ABLE to offer HIM freedom that would DESTROY most of us. For he was ONLY free in that He had reached a level of maturity that those 'things' that were NO LONGER able to HARM him or his relationship NO LONGER had ANY power. HOW? He had PRACTICALLY abandoned the FLESH and HAD become SO much Spirit that HIS understanding was PRACTICALLY that of Christ who TRULY led him THROUGH The Spirit.
A tough thing to accomplish then and perhaps EVEN TOUGHER NOW. But we can ALL 'work' towards that end and HOPEFULLY, one day, BE ABLE to enjoy the SAME 'freedom' as Paul excercised. But FIRST we must LEARN how to LIVE in a Body that is designed to offer EDIFICATION TO THAT BODY and to IT'S MEMBERS FIRST, and THEN we MAY be 'able' to offer righteous edification of SELF as well.
Blessings folks and Happy Mother's Day to the 'Mothers' out there,
MEC
When I make statements that condemn certain behavior or point the potential for negative effect, what I am pointing out is that MOST of us are supseptable to MUCH that 'could' be overcome.
Paul offers that NOTHING is ILLEGAL to HIM. This man had 'come to point' in his understanding and relationship that MUCH that HE could have DONE would utterly DESTROY 'some'. That is ALSO why he emphasized that WE ARE OUR BROTHERS KEEPERS. And that we should NEVER allow our FREEDOM to lead OTHERS astray. For what is ABLE to BE done by one may WELL lead another into temptation BEYOND their ability to OVERCOME.
It's difficult to discuss such issues while ADDING this concept. For MANY will NOT be able to discern that it takes a MATURITY or GROWTH FIRST in order to even UNDERSTAND what is being offered by Paul in his discussion of 'freedom'.
Example:
What may be able to negatively influence one, let's say 'art' or 'music', in a NEGATIVE manner, may WELL be able to be of NO influence what so ever in ANOTHER. The difference is the PLACE in one's walk that they have managed to accomplish in UNDERSTANDING. It is NOT the same for ALL.
One may be able to 'have a drink of wine' WITHOUT ANY NEGATIVE effects on their 'walk' WHATSOEVER. For they have reached a 'point' in the 'walk' that the alcohol has NO POWER over them. But another could WELL be led into a DEEP and DARK pit through partaking in that ONE DRINK. And it is UP TO US to be ABLE to discern that which is ABLE to cause our brothers to STUMBLE and for this cause, REFUSE to allow OUR freedom to HARM another.
Now, the TRICKY part; how does one DISCERN the difference in the position of their walk? I'm NOT EVEN going to 'get into this debate'. But, I offer what I offer in the HOPES that at least SOME are able to grasp what is stated here.
When I offer understanding concerning MANY issues, it is shuned by MANY for the REASON that 'perhaps' they have reached a level of Spiritual Maturity that would allow them to REMAIN unscathed by participation in that which is CERTAINLY able to lead another in the WRONG path. But MAYBE they just DON'T realize that their are MANY here that are DIFFERENT 'parts' of their journey. And for some of these, to offer that we are FREE in MANY respects is to offer a 'false sense of security' in that we are ONLY free so long as what we DO does NOT conflict with our walk in a NEGATIVE manner. And this NEGATIVITY is NOT ONLY in OUR WALK, but that which is being taken by OUR BROTHERS and SISTERS as well.
So, perhaps it would be BETTER for us to focus LESS our OUR PERSONAL liberty for the SAKE of our brothers and sisters. IF they REACH the point that they are TRULY FREE, then the KNOWLEDGE of this will be APPARENT in their OWN heart. So, focussing on that which is MOST productive in Spirituality would be MOST prudent. BEING our 'brothers KEEPERS' in a RESPONSIBLE manner instead of simply offering what WE think is OK for US as INDIVIDUALS.
I hope that this has been ABLE to clarify my position in regards to my responses on MANY issues of debate.
To sum it up: PAUL had obtained an understanding and a CEMENTED relationship that was ABLE to offer HIM freedom that would DESTROY most of us. For he was ONLY free in that He had reached a level of maturity that those 'things' that were NO LONGER able to HARM him or his relationship NO LONGER had ANY power. HOW? He had PRACTICALLY abandoned the FLESH and HAD become SO much Spirit that HIS understanding was PRACTICALLY that of Christ who TRULY led him THROUGH The Spirit.
A tough thing to accomplish then and perhaps EVEN TOUGHER NOW. But we can ALL 'work' towards that end and HOPEFULLY, one day, BE ABLE to enjoy the SAME 'freedom' as Paul excercised. But FIRST we must LEARN how to LIVE in a Body that is designed to offer EDIFICATION TO THAT BODY and to IT'S MEMBERS FIRST, and THEN we MAY be 'able' to offer righteous edification of SELF as well.
Blessings folks and Happy Mother's Day to the 'Mothers' out there,
MEC
cyberjosh
Member
- Oct 19, 2005
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johnmuise said:Thanks
No prob. I just hope I make sense every once in a while. :P
P.S. It would appear you like dogs. I assume you have pets? If so what are their names? I like dogs as well, although my dad always prefered the "less hastle" of a cat, and I got along with that fine. My cat is now 16 years old and he's gone from being the biggest ball of energy to the laziest, sleepiest, and (therefore) best cuddle cat I know. He's Garfield in the flesh, and I love him to death. :D