Water Baptism.

[Bar Elohim]

Jumping in cold here without reading everyone's posts.

You HAVE to differentiate between getting baptized to be justified, and being baptized to be saved. They are very much two different things. Which one do you mean?

Jesus had Paul write in Acts 19, addressing John the Baptists disciples on baptism! ASV Acts 19:1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples:
2 and he said unto them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given .
3 And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into John’s baptism.
4 And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him that should come after him, that is, on Jesus.
5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And they were in all about twelve men.

It is clear, that Johns water baptisms in the river Jordan were baptisms of repentance. BUT more importantly was the Baptism of the Spirit, which Paul explained and they received with signs following. Acts 18:26, was the same thing Aquilla and Priscilla explained to Appollos.

Born of water and Spirit, in John 3, is notH20, it is the word of God. ASV Ephesians 5:26 that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word.
Peter 1:23 having been begotten again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which liveth and abideth.
As one can see the Word is used in many applications. As this word "seed" in the above scripture. The Greek translation of this word seed, used in the above context of being born again, is.... [parentage seed...as sperm].

 

[Bar Elohim]

So only scripture may be used to support one's opinion. The writings of Luther, Knox, Calvin, Wesley, Spurgeon, Bultmann, Westerman, C.S. Lewis. etc. are all verboten?? No commentators? No apologists? No scholars or theologians?

If so, that leaves only everyone's OPINION of what the scriptures mean. (Edited, ToS 2.4, insulting. Obadiah)

iakov the fool

Save for the One who truly knows, and shares that truth with those who have the very same spirit that caused the word to be written.

 

[Bar Elohim]

Just take those passages as they are and you have to come to the conclusion that Jesus is speaking figuratively about the bread and wine. He is not saying they are literally his body and blood. Otherwise they would be actually eating pieces of His flesh, and drinking His actual blood, which they are not.

You are putting a lot of stock in the interpretations men of the church made almost 2000 years ago, when even in the bible Jesus' own followers got things wrong even though the Man who was the source was right there in front of them. Yes, we all get things wrong, which is what Martin Luther was saying about the catholic church. He brought under scrutiny everything that was taught by previous leaders of the church all the way back to when the New Testament was written. Everything from baptism to how we are actually saved.

Just because the term "catholic" wasn't used until well into the first millennium doesn't mean that the christian church, as a whole shouldn't, or can't, be referenced that way. The word "catholic" means "universal", regardless of whatever negative connotation we currently may associate with it.

Yes! Seems Paul had the same notion, when he prepared the bread and wine.. Some of his disciples ate and drank their fill, ahead all the others. Paul only chastened them for partaking without regards to the others...

 

[Bar Elohim]

I have to add. Jews in Jesus time, were taught from childhood, not to eat anything with the blood still in it. They were not even to touch anything that a person with an issue of blood touched. And many of Jesus' disciples left Jesus, because this " drinking His blood " was against everything they believed. Those that stayed with Jesus understood something that those that left hadn't!

 

[LovethroughDove]

Born of water and Spirit, in John 3, is notH20, it is the word of God. ASV Ephesians 5:26 that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word.

Yes and yes. And Jesus is the Word and out of Jesus flows water

John 1:14 The Word became flesh

John 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

It is all about the water you have from Jesus.

 

[JLB]

Born of water and Spirit, in John 3, is notH20, it is the word of God.

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

• Jesus is using an "earthly" thing to teach about a "heavenly" thing.

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12

The earthly thing, Jesus used to teach Nicodemus, about heavenly things, is birth.

Natural birth to teach spiritual birth.

Verse 6, is the explanation of verse 5.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Every human being that comes into this world, is born of water, which refers to natural birth.

Only One came into this world by both water and blood; Jesus Christ.

Came by both water and blood is a reference to Supernatural Birth, which is being born of a virgin.

This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1 John 5:6


Born of water = Natural birth - earthly things
Born of the Spirit = Spiritual birth [born again] - heavenly things.

Please take note that one must be born of a natural birth [born of water], in order to be born again [Spiritual birth].


JLB

 

[Knotical]

Please show me where Scripture calls baptism "merely a symbol". I have been asking this question for years and have yet to get an actual verse.


Please show me where Scripture calls baptism "an outward sign that you are saved". I have been asking this question for years and have yet to get an actual verse.


Where is the use of water called "a symbol that Christ has washed our sins away". I have been asking...you get the point...

You first must start with the passage in Genesis where circumcision is instituted, then read through the gospels, as baptism is the replacement for circumcision. Both are outward signs of being part of the covenant. The reason we have baptism now rather than circumcision is that Jesus did away with the need for blood sacrifices when He died on the cross.

From there it is a good idea to work through Paul's letters.

Really this is something you must discover through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This should get you going in the right direction.

 

[dadof10]

You first must start with the passage in Genesis where circumcision is instituted, then read through the gospels, as baptism is the replacement for circumcision.

Then you believe that water baptism should be done to infants, as circumcision was?

Both are outward signs of being part of the covenant.

Correct, but neither are "outward signs" of salvation, as you stated. Circumcision is never tied to salvation as baptism is (1Pt 3:21). In fact, Paul tells us that circumcision has no bearing on salvation at all, while Peter says that water baptism saves. Both are entrance into the covenant, but that's where the similarity ends.

The reason we have baptism now rather than circumcision is that Jesus did away with the need for blood sacrifices when He died on the cross.

From there it is a good idea to work through Paul's letters.

I did. I can't find any of Paul's letters that call water baptism a "sign of salvation", can you? In fact, nowhere does Scripture call water baptism "merely symbolic", as you have done. Nowhere is it taught that water baptism is only to be administered to saved adults.

Really this is something you must discover through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This should get you going in the right direction.

The Holy Spirit wouldn't guide me to an unscriptural, non-historical understanding of salvation. Water baptism saves, that's what the Holy Spirit teaches through Scripture and the early Church. Why not simply believe the plain words of Scripture and the constant teaching of the Church, instead of a 16th century heresy?

 

[Brother Mike]

There needs to be a new believer area to ask these questions. Or course the seasoned veterans of the Word won't agree on anything, that's too much to ask. The OP left.

Do we need to be dunked in water to be saved? A pretty simple question.

If we need to be dunked underwater, then who is qualified to perform such a dunking? Your momma? Your favorite TV preacher? your Pastor? your priest? A best friend?

I'll do it for 10.00 per person, just walk to your tub, and stream me from your smart phone.
If you act now, for 5.00 I'll included a small vial of Ozark Mountain Water with possible healing properties. I have yet to test that, but why not.
P.M me for the details.

1Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It answers a what?

Mike.

 

[JLB]

There needs to be a new believer area to ask these questions. Or course the seasoned veterans of the Word won't agree on anything, that's too much to ask. The OP left.

Do we need to be dunked in water to be saved? A pretty simple question.

If we need to be dunked underwater, then who is qualified to perform such a dunking? Your momma? Your favorite TV preacher? your Pastor? your priest? A best friend?

I'll do it for 10.00 per person, just walk to your tub, and stream me from your smart phone.
If you act now, for 5.00 I'll included a small vial of Ozark Mountain Water with possible healing properties. I have yet to test that, but why not.
P.M me for the details.

1Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It answers a what?

Mike.

Here is what Phillip advised the Ethiopian eunuch about water baptism.

36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See,here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
Acts 8:36-37

JLB

 

[turnorburn]

dadof10 said: "Nowhere is it taught that water baptism is only to be administered to saved adults." I'm saying: Nowhere in Gods word does it demonstrate that "anyone" is baptized before they are saved. Baptismal regeneration is heresy plain and simple. Of course the Holy Spirit wouldn't guild you to an unscriptural, non-historical understanding of salvation, but the devil certainly would... Only a man made church would teach you to believe otherwise...

 

[JLB]

Nowhere in Gods word does it demonstrate that "anyone" is baptized before they are saved.

We are to be water baptized only if we believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” Acts 8:37


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Here is what Phillip advised the Ethiopian eunuch about water baptism.

36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See,here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
Acts 8:36-37

JLB

That's good, but folks like to come up with what if scenarios where a person gives their life to the Lord, confesses but water dunking is not until two weeks away.
So, they get hit by a bus and get horribly killed without getting dunked in water.

So, you have to believe, which pretty much removes babies from getting dunked, and it's a great idea, but what if the Bus runs you over before you get to the water?

Blessings.
Mike.

 

[reba]

• Original posts should reference specific scripture and what it is the member wants to say or ask about that scripture.
• Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies.

 

[reba]

JLB for following the guidelines.. keep it up and just maybe it will catch on..
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Pro 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

 

[JLB]

JLB for following the guidelines.. keep it up and just maybe it will catch on..
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Pro 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders. Yes, all of you be submissive to one another, and be clothed with humility, for “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” 1 Peter 2:13, 1 Peter 5:5

 

[JLB]

That's good, but folks like to come up with what if scenarios where a person gives their life to the Lord, confesses but water dunking is not until two weeks away.
So, they get hit by a bus and get horribly killed without getting dunked in water.

So, you have to believe, which pretty much removes babies from getting dunked, and it's a great idea, but what if the Bus runs you over before you get to the water?

Blessings.
Mike.

Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 2 Timothy 2:19

and again

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14


Everyday that goes by, I am aware of just how desperate I am for Him, and how grateful I am for His mercy towards me.

The Lord is good, and His mercy endures forever.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 2 Timothy 2:19

and again

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14


Everyday that goes by, I am aware of just how desperate I am for Him, and how grateful I am for His mercy towards me.

The Lord is good, and His mercy endures forever.


JLB

Ok, so the heart condition is far more important than the ritual of getting dunked in Water. Someone with a good heart condition though would plan to get dunked in Water when the opportunity presented itself.

My supporting scripture.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[JLB]

Ok, so the heart condition is far more important than the ritual of getting dunked in Water. Someone with a good heart condition though would plan to get dunked in Water when the opportunity presented itself.

My supporting scripture.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Yes sir.

I don't want argue with Jesus.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mark 16:16

 

[reba]

JLB what did you forget?