What Do We Know About the Holy Spirit?

[Scotth1960]

Who told you that?

Elijah, Jesus Christ was not created or made. By the Father. He is eternally begotten of God the Father, and He, Jesus, is not a creation, not a creature. The idea that Christ is a creature is an old Arian and a new Jehovah's Witness heresy.
Jesus is true man, but an uncreated man. An eternal man, born in time as a man; He was always THE LOGOS, GOD the WORD, begotten IN TIME as a man, the Son of Man, the Son of God. True God and true man. Divinity and humanity in one Person, Jesus Christ the righteous. In Erie PA Scott H.

 

[Elijah674]

This is a HS discussion, not a trinity debate guys and ladies.

Specifically, who was promised the gift of the HS?

He was promised to only those who would obey Him! Acts 5:32

--Elijah

 

[Alabaster]

Dear Alabaster, "God is NOT One Person comprised of the the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit". GOD is One God, consisting of Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Three Persons in One God(head).
The idea that God is One Person in three modes is an ancient heresy called Sabellianism, of the heretic Sabellius. For more information, See GOOGLE under Sabellius and Sabellianism. God bless you, Alabaster. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

That's what I said. God the Father is One Person of the Godhead, comprised of three Persons.

I don't need to Google anything, thanks.

 

[Scotth1960]

That's what I said. God the Father is One Person of the Godhead, comprised of three Persons.

I don't need to Google anything, thanks.

God the Father is one Person. The Godhead is composed of three Persons. The Father is not comprised of three Persons. Perhaps you need to watch how you say things, they are open for misinterpretation. There are Three Persons in one God. Not One Person Who is Three Persons. One God Who is Three Persons. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, Three Persons, but not three gods. Only one God. In Erie PA By the way, you would learn something if you looked up on Sabellianism. We need not to repeat the mistakes of others in their views of the Trinity. We need to be careful that what we think agrees with the Holy Word of God, the NT, together with the OT interpreted according to the whole NT. In Erie Scott H.

 

[Alabaster]

God the Father is one Person. The Godhead is composed of three Persons. The Father is not comprised of three Persons. Perhaps you need to watch how you say things, they are open for misinterpretation. There are Three Persons in one God. Not One Person Who is Three Persons. One God Who is Three Persons. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, Three Persons, but not three gods. Only one God. In Erie PA By the way, you would learn something if you looked up on Sabellianism. We need not to repeat the mistakes of others in their views of the Trinity. We need to be careful that what we think agrees with the Holy Word of God, the NT, together with the OT interpreted according to the whole NT. In Erie Scott H.

LOL! When we speak of God, we are often thinking Father. He is OK with it. I am very careful about speaking the truth. Don't you worry about it, Scott---I am in no danger of falling for lies.

 

[Scotth1960]

LOL! When we speak of God, we are often thinking Father. He is OK with it. I am very careful about speaking the truth. Don't you worry about it, Scott---I am in no danger of falling for lies.

The problem is, if you follow "the Bible alone", you already have fallen for a lie. I grant most of what you say is correct. What do you do when you differ from another, someone must be mistaken, and someone else corrects the mistaken one. Who will correct you if you think you don't need to study how the early Christians read Scripture. Without the historic Church, we just twist alone in the wind in our private interpretations and our search for escapes, like pretribulationism, which the early Church did not teach. They suffered through much, they were not about to teach that any generation of Christians can escape sufferings to come. In Erie PA
Scott H.

 

[Alabaster]

The problem is, if you follow "the Bible alone", you already have fallen for a lie.

No I haven't. Those who follow tradition and the Orthodox church's mandates are following after men ans their particular views...that leads to error and sin.

I grant most of what you say is correct. What do you do when you differ from another, someone must be mistaken, and someone else corrects the mistaken one. Who will correct you if you think you don't need to study how the early Christians read Scripture. Without the historic Church, we just twist alone in the wind in our private interpretations and our search for escapes, like pretribulationism, which the early Church did not teach. They suffered through much, they were not about to teach that any generation of Christians can escape sufferings to come.

My correction comes from God Himself and through His people that He has placed in my life to lead and to teach.

 

[francisdesales]

You missed the point I did a pour job of communicating. My point was that thescriptures tell us these people (in this case 1st century saints) already had the spirit and were therefore able to endure and even rejoice in their persecutions. Their being persecuted was NOT proof that they had the spirit according to this text. Them having the spirit would allow them to overcome their situation.

There are a number of "proofs" that God's Spirit is amongst us. One is standing fast to the Gospel despite persecution. Merely being persecuted is not a sign of God's Spirit. But Jesus said blessed are those who are persecuted for my sake. We would presume He also meant "and not faltered", since people have recanted their faith under torture or even under verbal abuse. Standing fast despite that persecution from the world is a sign of a blessing, of Christ's Spirit present within that person.

Naturally, the Spirit allowing them to overcome the situation is proof of His Presence, is it not? We know a spiritual presence by its action, not by its mass or volume of space it occupies.

Regards

 

[Scotth1960]

No I haven't. Those who follow tradition and the Orthodox church's mandates are following after men ans their particular views...that leads to error and sin.

My correction comes from God Himself and through His people that He has placed in my life to lead and to teach.

Alabaster, Those who think the tradition of the Orthodox Church is the "tradition of God" should learn that the Church considers the tradition of Protestants to be the same. The Protestants name their "churches" after particular men who are recent innovators. Lutheran, Calvinist, Wesleyan, etc. What else could this be but traditions of men, the Reformers. It is okay to name a church for a patron saint, though, because these men come from God: St. Andrew, St. John, St. Peter and Paul, etc. We have to understand that the apostles were men, and they taught the tradition of God. But recent traditions come from men's imagination, not from Scripture according to the historic Church, which also comes from God. In Erie PA Scott H.
PS My correction also comes from God Himself through His people, the people of the Orthodox Church. All Christians have the Holy Spirit, and I am sure if we differ, we do so in good conscience, but some day the Holy Spirit will get through to all of us, and show which teaching is right, and which in error.

 

[Alabaster]

PS My correction also comes from God Himself through His people, the people of the Orthodox Church. All Christians have the Holy Spirit, and I am sure if we differ, we do so in good conscience, but some day the Holy Spirit will get through to all of us, and show which teaching is right, and which in error.

He does that now.

 

[Scotth1960]

No I haven't. Those who follow tradition and the Orthodox church's mandates are following after men ans their particular views...that leads to error and sin.

My correction comes from God Himself and through His people that He has placed in my life to lead and to teach.

Dear Alabaster, These people in your life can be wrong, too. Nobody is infallible. I am not saying that people in the Orthodox Church are infallible; no one is. But the Church itself is infallible (1 Timothy 3:15 says so and so does Matthew 16:18). It all depends upon whether the Church is founded upon you and your friends with their private interpretations. When Christ preached the Gospels, He preached publicly, and this was handed down publicly through the Apostles to the bishops of the Greek-speaking Church. The same Church is the GOC, not the denominations following from the man-made Protestant Reformation. Your thinking comes from Protestantism, and that is a "tradition of men", not one from God.
In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[Alabaster]

Dear Alabaster, These people in your life can be wrong, too.

They could be, but they are lead by God. I trust Him. He is the one who places godly leaders in our lives.

But the Church itself is infallible (1 Timothy 3:15 says so and so does Matthew 16:18).

The church is the people of Jesus Christ. We are the redeemed and are being made spotless. Until that time,the Church is still fallible.

It all depends upon whether the Church is founded upon you and your friends with their private interpretations.

What? Like yours?

When Christ preached the Gospels, He preached publicly, and this was handed down publicly through the Apostles to the bishops of the Greek-speaking Church. The same Church is the GOC, not the denominations following from the man-made Protestant Reformation. Your thinking comes from Protestantism, and that is a "tradition of men", not one from God.
In Erie PA Scott Harrington

What Jesus preached was put in writing for all the generations to come, praise God! We need nothing else.

My thinking comes from the freedom I have in Jesus Christ. I am not in bondage to an institution, which is itself bound up in man-made traditions, thanks.

 

[Scotth1960]

They could be, but they are lead by God. I trust Him. He is the one who places godly leaders in our lives.

The church is the people of Jesus Christ. We are the redeemed and are being made spotless. Until that time,the Church is still fallible.

What? Like yours?

What Jesus preached was put in writing for all the generations to come, praise God! We need nothing else.

My thinking comes from the freedom I have in Jesus Christ. I am not in bondage to an institution, which is itself bound up in man-made traditions, thanks.

Dear Alabaster, Your thinking is not logical. If you think it is real freedom to read the Bible "for yourself/by yourself", you are responsible for what goes in your tradition. Thus, your tradition is a "tradition of men", if you are, indeed, a man (or a person, perhaps you are a young lady). God bless you. Anyway, how can we know whether or not our traditions come from men, or from God? It all depends upon apostolic succession. The Orthodox Churches can all trace themselves to the preaching/ministry of the 12 Apostles, including especially St. Andrew, St. Peter, St. Paul, St. John, St. James, St. Thomas who doubted so much, he wanted to be certain. To conclude that reading the Bible by oneself without any tradition does not lead to a tradition of one's own is illogical. You must rely on the thinking of someone, and if it is only yourself, it is your own tradition. God founded a Body of Christ, not individuals. When individuals come to Christ, they need to believe some tradition. The question is, which of 30,000 traditions is the tradition of God. Oh, and I made a mistake in one of my posts. I said that the Orthodox Church considers her tradition of God also considers the tradition of the Protestants the same. Not completely. Protestantism is in part from God, and part from men, which makes it a tradition of men. Eastern Orthodoxy comes all from the Holy Spirit, and any error in her members in the Body of Christ are corrected by the Holy Spirit (John 16:13). The Body can have individual members submit to the judgment of the elders if there is any error, whether moral, or doctrinal. Take care.
In Erie PA Scott Harrington
Your rejection of infant baptism was also held by a man who baptized himself, but I gather you do not try to do that, I grant you that fairly. But since the Bible does not say whether baptism is by single immersion or trine immersion, it is difficult to know how sola Scriptura will solve this problem. If it is by single immersion, God is then One Person, and not three. The Bible does teach immersion, in examples. But it does not say how to immerse. It is logical with the Three Persons of God to immerse 3 times in baptism. One immersion implies a Unitarian view of God. Anyway, we would consider Christ's immersion by St. John to be unique, as Christ Himself is the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and thus only a single immersion for Him. For His Church, though, 3 immersions.
In Erie PA Scott

 

[Scotth1960]

He does that now.

Alabaster, My mistake, I should have said, "Those who think the tradition of the Orthodox Church is "the tradition of men" should know that the Orthodox Church considers the traditions of Protestants (and there are many conflicting traditions) to be the same. Protestantism with Martin Luther, etc. is a "tradition of men."
In Erie PA Scott H.

 

[Alabaster]

Dear Alabaster, Your thinking is not logical.

God is not always logical...thank God!

If you think it is real freedom to read the Bible "for yourself/by yourself", you are responsible for what goes in your tradition. Thus, your tradition is a "tradition of men", if you are, indeed, a man (or a person, perhaps you are a young lady). God bless you.

I don't think that. However, I spend time daily with God and His word, which is what He desires us all to do.

Anyway, how can we know whether or not our traditions come from men, or from God? It all depends upon apostolic succession.

It depends on what the word says.

You must rely on the thinking of someone,

Like you do? No thanks.

God founded a Body of Christ, not individuals. When individuals come to Christ, they need to believe some tradition.

No they don't. The only tradition we need is Jesus' command to not neglect the regular assembling of ourselves together. The Body of Christ is only believers...period!

Eastern Orthodoxy comes all from the Holy Spirit, and any error in her members in the Body of Christ are corrected by the Holy Spirit (John 16:13).

That is a pile of ____.

Your rejection of infant baptism was also held by a man who baptized himself

That is nuts.

The Bible does teach immersion, in examples. But it does not say how to immerse.

We do it the way the disciples did it.

It is logical with the Three Persons of God to immerse 3 times in baptism.

With your penchant for logic, I tend toward spiritual OCD as a very real possibility.

Please return to the topic, in any case.

 

[Scotth1960]

God is not always logical...thank God!

I don't think that. However, I spend time daily with God and His word, which is what He desires us all to do.

It depends on what the word says.

Like you do? No thanks.

No they don't. The only tradition we need is Jesus' command to not neglect the regular assembling of ourselves together. The Body of Christ is only believers...period!

That is a pile of ____.

That is nuts.

We do it the way the disciples did it.

With your penchant for logic, I tend toward spiritual OCD as a very real possibility.

Please return to the topic, in any case.

Dear Alabaster, You are displaying a lack of self-control. If we don't give in to emotions, as I myself have at times sometimes sworn (God forgive me!), we will not rely on personal attacks against me or saying what I am saying is "nuts".
Your language assumes personal things. I have not made any personal references to you personally. I don't form any judgment. I just think you don't see your tradition must come from somewhere, and this inevitably comes from other believers. We err where we try to find new things ourselves in the Bible. If something is Christian, it should be something all Christians believe, not something new we find in the Bible by ourselves. I should think the Church Fathers are more accurate than we are, because they lived in times closer to the times of the Apostles. We need to learn what they taught. It is the key to rightly understanding Scripture. It is the key to understanding early Church history. In Erie Scott H.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Anyway, how can we know whether or not our traditions come from men, or from God? It all depends upon apostolic succession. The Orthodox Churches can all trace themselves to the preaching/ministry of the 12 Apostles, including especially St. Andrew, St. Peter, St. Paul, St. John, St. James, St. Thomas who doubted so much, he wanted to be certain. To conclude that reading the Bible by oneself without any tradition does not lead to a tradition of one's own is illogical. You must rely on the thinking of someone, and if it is only yourself, it is your own tradition. God founded a Body of Christ, not individuals. When individuals come to Christ, they need to believe some tradition. The question is, which of 30,000 traditions is the tradition of God. Oh, and I made a mistake in one of my posts. I said that the Orthodox Church considers her tradition of God also considers the tradition of the Protestants the same. Not completely. Protestantism is in part from God, and part from men, which makes it a tradition of men. Eastern Orthodoxy comes all from the Holy Spirit, and any error in her members in the Body of Christ are corrected by the Holy Spirit (John 16:13). The Body can have individual members submit to the judgment of the elders if there is any error, whether moral, or doctrinal. In Erie PA Scott

Apostolic succession huh? Having a hard time seing how that concept is scriptural or can be substantiated by history. You seem to have stated that finding out which of the 30,000 traditions is correct is what one will have to in some way decipher. My response to that would be that NONE of the traditions is God's, not a single one.
Jesus founded or should I say built his congregation of called out people on the fact that he was the Son of the living God. He didn't set up ANY institution, but rather a "body" made up of INDIVIDUALS that believed Him to be who he said he was, and he promised that that body of individuals would triumph over death (the gates of hades). Take away the individuals and there is no body.

 

[Scotth1960]

Apostolic succession huh? Having a hard time seing how that concept is scriptural or can be substantiated by history. You seem to have stated that finding out which of the 30,000 traditions is correct is what one will have to in some way decipher. My response to that would be that NONE of the traditions is God's, not a single one.
Jesus founded or should I say built his congregation of called out people on the fact that he was the Son of the living God. He didn't set up ANY institution, but rather a "body" made up of INDIVIDUALS that believed Him to be who he said he was, and he promised that that body of individuals would triumph over death (the gates of hades). Take away the individuals and there is no body.

Dear TRUTH over TRADITION, Take away the "faith once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3), and there is no Body of Christ, the Church. Where does sola fide come from St. Paul, but the Lutherans insist on that. Together, with 30,000 denominations, they all insist their teaching comes only from the Bible and only from God. They can't all be right, when they contradict each other on important points of doctrine.
As far as history proves the truth of Matthew 16:18, that the Church remains intact and inviolable, despite heresies that rise up against her, the truth is stated in the Creed of 381 AD of 318 Church Fathers, bishops of the whole Catholic Church in Nicaea in 381 AD, who never said "FILIOQUE". They wrote IN GREEK, NOT in Latin. In Erie PA Scott H.

 

[Alabaster]

Dear Alabaster, You are displaying a lack of self-control. If we don't give in to emotions, as I myself have at times sometimes sworn (God forgive me!), we will not rely on personal attacks against me or saying what I am saying is "nuts".

OK. Inane, then.

Your language assumes personal things. I have not made any personal references to you personally. I don't form any judgment. I just think you don't see your tradition must come from somewhere, and this inevitably comes from other believers.

Whatever tradition I may have is from the first churches.

We err where we try to find new things ourselves in the Bible.

Haha! How is that?

If something is Christian, it should be something all Christians believe, not something new we find in the Bible by ourselves.

Haha! God reveals Himself in scripture to us. He gives us fresh and new revelation all the time. As individuals we don't have even a smidgen of the full revelation of Jesus Christ. We need His word, and fellowship and exhortation of other believers regularly.

I should think the Church Fathers are more accurate than we are, because they lived in times closer to the times of the Apostles. We need to learn what they taught. It is the key to rightly understanding Scripture. It is the key to understanding early Church history. In Erie Scott H.

The word is accurate. Therefore we can have the same revelation they had. No exception. Getting into the word of God will guarantee that you will learn what they taught--if indeed they taught what was in the word.

The only key to understanding Scripture is by listening to the Holy Spirit when He speaks to you. We do not require any knowledge of church history to walk with Jesus and achieve victorious living.

 

[Alabaster]

Apostolic succession huh? Having a hard time seing how that concept is scriptural or can be substantiated by history. You seem to have stated that finding out which of the 30,000 traditions is correct is what one will have to in some way decipher. My response to that would be that NONE of the traditions is God's, not a single one.
Jesus founded or should I say built his congregation of called out people on the fact that he was the Son of the living God. He didn't set up ANY institution, but rather a "body" made up of INDIVIDUALS that believed Him to be who he said he was, and he promised that that body of individuals would triumph over death (the gates of hades). Take away the individuals and there is no body.