What does it mean to be Born-Again?

[Serving Zion]

You are good up to here.

You need to explain why you have said that.

John has a theme in his Gospel account...sonship.
John 1:12-13 testifies to this.

Ok. No dispute!

The expression "Born from above" also had significant meaning amongst the theologians. It was a group of people who were foretold about, before they were born, to accomplish tasks for God. IE Sampson, Samuel, Isaac, Jacob and Esau.
Which is why Nicodemus is in a state of unbelief and Jesus is stating facts.

I'd like to see the resource that you have got this idea from, if you can.

This story is more about God's foreknowledge and fore-ordination than anything else.

I strongly disagree with that, and it would divide us. It is clearly a matter that Jesus is telling Nicodemus that the kingdom of God is in our midst, but only those who have received the new life, the spiritual life, can see it. "The wind blows where it will, and where it comes from or where it goes next, nobody can tell. That's how it is with those who are born of the spirit".

 

[JohnDB]

You need to explain why you have said that.



Ok. No dispute!



I'd like to see the resource that you have got this idea from, if you can.

Ray Vanderland PHD Anthropology ANE studies
Zondervan
That the World May Know lecture series.

 

[Corn Pop]

To be honest that is me. 20 years away from God gave the evil one all that time to set up his residence in me, unchallenged.
Paul was also away from God and even persecuted Christ, im almost certain the evil one had a similar stronghold in him as well. Nome of the other apostles wrote about having this struggle like Paul did. That's why never leave God, for Satan will move in

Those verses u speak of are in Romans 7:14-26. Im not sure what sin Paul was struggling with but it describes my situation like only Paul can. Its almost like he wrote that for me.

16 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
18 For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do – this I keep on doing
24 What a wretched man I am! ?

It makes me hang my head in shame.

I think most born again believers struggle in the flesh but it's only the flesh, if someone knows what they are doing is not good and they do it there spirit is righteous but the flesh is crooked, but it's only the flesh. If people think doing wrong is ok then both the flesh and spirit is crooked and not righteous.

It's just a flesh vs spirit battle. The flesh is dead but the Spirit lives righteous.

Gods law is within so born again believers are righteous in spirit.

Because you know your addiction is not good your spirit is righteous because it's Jesus spirit inside who knows it's not good and does not want to do it, because the spirit is righteousness.

 

[Serving Zion]

Ray Vanderland PHD Anthropology ANE studies
Zondervan
That the World May Know lecture series.

Can you please quote the relevant part?

 

[Serving Zion]

Ray Vanderland PHD Anthropology ANE studies
Zondervan
That the World May Know lecture series.

You owe me an answer too:

 

[Brock]

Addiction for example can be hard for a born again believer in God and his Word Jesus Christ.

Is that what Paul was taking about when he said what he wants to do he does not do and what he wants to do he does not?.

Maybe, I think someone is still a Christian even if they keep falling to addiction or a habitual sin or whatever. As long as you keep relying on God and keep getting up and dusting yourself up and walking with the Lord. I think it doesn't matter how many times a Christian might fall into anger, porn, alcoholism or whatever.

But that's different to when you aren't remorseful or repentant at all about there sin. If someone claims to be a Christian but brags about commiting sin, then I think we can reasonably doubt that persons conversion.

 

[Brock]

I think most born again believers struggle in the flesh but it's only the flesh, if someone knows what they are doing is not good and they do it there spirit is righteous but the flesh is crooked, but it's only the flesh. If people think doing wrong is ok then both the flesh and spirit is crooked and not righteous.

It's just a flesh vs spirit battle. The flesh is dead but the Spirit lives righteous.

Gods law is within so born again believers are righteous in spirit.

Because you know your addiction is not good your spirit is righteous because it's Jesus spirit inside who knows it's not good and does not want to do it, because the spirit is righteousness.

Amen

 

[JohnDB]

You owe me an answer too:

View attachment 9470

It was just where I could quote while fat fingering with my phone.
I've been limited by the Tornado damage until they get internet fully restored to my area...and I was on lunch at work.

 

[JLB]

"above" and "again" are two very different words. They don't say the same thing. The rest of what you wrote does fit with what I wrote, so I suggest you read me again and then explain why you have addressed me.

Born of God
Born from above
Born of the Spirit
Born again

To me all say the same thing.

It means you are a child of God.


From above refers to God.

James uses this expression, and from his use of the phrase and context we understand he means “of God”; ie from God.

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. James 3:17

Likewise born of the Spirit, or born of God, as well born again, indicates being born of God.

If we have only been born of natural birth from our mother’s womb, then we are a son of our earthly father.

We would then need to be born again, to be born of God.

This is exactly the point Jesus makes.

Nicodemus plainly asked Jesus in response to His statement, ... unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

• Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
  
  This plainly indicates Jesus used the phrase “born again”.

JLB

 

[JLB]

It's just a flesh vs spirit battle. The flesh is dead but the Spirit lives righteous.

Gods law is within so born again believers are righteous in spirit.

Only the person who practices righteousness is righteous.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7


Christians who allow their flesh to lead them in which they practice the works of the flesh are certainly not righteous, my friend.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

• For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
  
  
• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

JLB

 

[Serving Zion]

This plainly indicates Jesus used the phrase “born again”.

This shows that you didn't read and understand my post before taking a position toward it. It would be good for you to re-read it.

It is the same Greek word used in James 3:17 that you have quoted, and in John 3:7: ἄνωθεν. It is better to translate it as "born from above".

I say that "born from above", "born of the spirit", "born of God" are synonymous.

"Born again" is a different thing altogether. The word "again" says that a thing is repeated. The essence of the doctrine says that we need to be born of the spirit. The doctrine of rebirth becomes effective when we recognise that children are born already spiritually alive, and it is not until sin is conceived and matures in them that they end up being unable to perceive the kingdom of God and in need of being born again (Romans 7:9).

Nicodemus himself did not understand why Jesus was saying that there is need for another birth, and that is why he asked, with condescension, whether an old man is able to climb back into his mother's womb.

 

[GodsGrace]

This shows that you didn't read and understand my post before taking a position toward it. It would be good for you to re-read it.

It is the same Greek word used in James 3:17 that you have quoted, and in John 3:7: ἄνωθεν. So it is better to translate it as "born from above".

I say that "born from above", "born of the spirit", "born of God" are synonymous.

"Born again" is a different thing altogether. The word "again" says that a thing is repeated, whereas the true doctrine does not say that we need to be reborn, but born of a new type: born of the spirit.

Nicodemus himself did not understand why Jesus was saying that there is need for another birth, and that is why he asked, with condescension, whether an old man is able to climb back into his mother's womb.

Born of a new type.
Good.
John also says that what is born of the flesh is flesh
and what is born of the spirit is spirit.

In John 3:5 Jesus says one must be born of the water and of the spirit.

IF water is natural birth....
then, "of the spirit" become birth of spirit.

So a person would be born once ----- in the flesh,
and then once again......in the spirit.

This does not take issue with what John 3:3 is stating but with what born AGAIN means.

John 3:3 may very well say BORN FROM ABOVE.....
but a birthing does take place two times. It is happening AGAIN, as you stated in your post.

This seems to make sense to me.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ray Vanderland PHD Anthropology ANE studies
Zondervan
That the World May Know lecture series.

But if only some are BORN FROM ABOVE as you understand it....
then what would you call those BORN OF THE SPIRIT??
What would you call those that can enter into the Kingdom?

That would mean that ONLY SOME are born of the spirit....
(born of above
born again)

 

[Serving Zion]

Born of a new type.
Good.
John also says that what is born of the flesh is flesh
and what is born of the spirit is spirit.

In John 3:5 Jesus says one must be born of the water and of the spirit.

IF water is natural birth....
then, "of the spirit" become birth of spirit.

So a person would be born once ----- in the flesh,
and then once again......in the spirit.

This does not take issue with what John 3:3 is stating but with what born AGAIN means.

John 3:3 may very well say BORN FROM ABOVE.....
but a birthing does take place two times. It is happening AGAIN, as you stated in your post.

This seems to make sense to me.

Well, now John 3:5 says quite a different thing again. Jesus is now saying a man cannot enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of the spirit and of the water. Keep in mind what He says in Luke 13:25: "many will try to enter but will not be able to". So, seeing the kingdom of God and entering into it are two different things. There is proof of this in Luke 13:26.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, now John 3:5 says quite a different thing again. Jesus is now saying a man cannot enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of the spirit and of the water. Keep in mind what He says in Luke 13:25: "many will try to enter but will not be able to". So, seeing the kingdom of God and entering into it are two different things. There is proof of this in Luke 13:26.

SZ...
too late
too tired
Above is interesting...but I don't quite understand.
Will respond tomorrow,,,but Luke 13:27 is reminding me of
Matthew 7:23

Will try to make the connection.
Manana.

 

[Brock]

That's why never leave God, for Satan will move in

Yep, didn't read my bible or pray for an entire year before and fell into all sorts of sin, worst year of my tbh. I was still saved but you know...

 

[Corn Pop]

Only the person who practices righteousness is righteous.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7


Christians who allow their flesh to lead them in which they practice the works of the flesh are certainly not righteous, my friend.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

• For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
  
  
• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

JLB

Obviously if a Christian sins it's not righteous, but the Spirit does not want to do it so the Spirit is righteous.

A born again addict who wants to quit and struggles is an example, they do what they do not want to do. God knows the heart and knows they do not actually want to do it. That's righteous.

So, the Spirit is righteous but the flesh is crooked.

 

[JLB]

This shows that you didn't read and understand my post before taking a position toward it. It would be good for you to re-read it.

If I responded to your post, its because I read it.

I like and agree with much of what you said.


Mainly the part, I may see differently is Nicodemus’s response.

I believe we agree that Jesus is referring to sonship; becoming a child of God.

Being “born of the Spirit” is how this takes place.


Hopefully we can agree on these essential things.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Obviously if a Christian sins it's not righteous, but the Spirit does not want to do it so the Spirit is righteous.

Yes the Spirit is righteous.

The Spirit desires to lead us in the way of righteousnes.

Responding or yielding to the Spirit, rather that yielding to the sinful desires of our flesh, s how we are led by the Spirit.



JLB

 

[JLB]

A born again addict who wants to quit

I may not understand what you mean by this term, “born again addict”.


Do you mean a Christian who has fallen back into a previous lifestyle of drug addiction?




JLB