Yes another birth is required.
A spiritual birth.
Jesus is dealing with the typical Jewish mindset that thinks being a natural descendant of Abraham means they are “blessed”.
JLB
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What does it mean to be Born-Again?
- Thread starter SavedByTheBloodOfChrist
- Start date
Yes another birth is required.
A spiritual birth.
Jesus is dealing with the typical Jewish mindset that thinks being a natural descendant of Abraham means they are “blessed”.
JLB
Serving Zion
Member
The important matter is in why the rebirth is necessary for them. If the translation says that Nicodemus must be born again, then it tends to imply that everybody must be born again, which is not consistent with the teaching of Romans 7:9.
The key is understanding that nobody is born with the Jewish mindset, but the spiritual death came as a result of their idolatry, effectively: they believed their religion was their salvation, but because they did not practice the religion in truth (Mark 7:13), sin took advantage and killed them (Romans 7:10-11,13).
The translation "born from above" does not naturally imply that everybody is not already born of the spirit to begin with, whereas the English language tends to lead a reader to assume that babies are not "born again", and that is where the false teaching of Christianity has its root.
Everyone must be born again, born of the Spirit, to have eternal life.
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever. 1 Peter 1:22-23
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 John 5:1-5
JLB
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Romans 7:7-12
So you don’t believe Paul was born again?
What is it in verse 9 that leads you to believe everyone doesn’t need to be born again?
JLB
John 3:1-6
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews;
2this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
3Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
I agree that verse 3 should be BORN OF ABOVE. This I find in the YLT, in some other translations, and in the Italian translation which is close to the Greek meanings.
Also, I believe born again to be a modern idea but I don't find it to be totally different than born of above...They both mean that we are to be born two times....once in the flesh and once in the spirit as we read in verse 6.
Being born again (even if it means baptism) describes a second birth which is of the spirit...
Being born of above describes a birth which must come after our natural birth and means to be born of the spirit of God.
I don't really see a difference in the two expressions.
Now to:
Luke 13:22-27
22And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. 23And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them,
24“Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
25“Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’
26“Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’;
27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’
I don't quite understand why you've posted the above in regards to being born again.
The door is narrow and few will find it.
Jesus will say DEPART FROM ME ALL YOU EVILDOERS.
Jesus Himself did not use the expression born again or born of above except for a few times. He concentrated more on letting us know HOW to be born from above,,,,,HOW to enter into the Kingdom of God (here). However, we MUST be born of above, OR born of the spirit because our works ALONE will NOT get us into heaven.
Faith without works is dead.... James 2
Works without faith are dead....
Re seeing the Kingdom of God...
It is not visible to those that are NOT born of the spirit.
It is only visible and accessible to those that ARE born of the spirit.
Serving Zion
Member
That is where we differ. It is visible to those who are born from above. Nobody can enter it except by water and by spirit. You have assumed that the water means physical birth. I do not make that assumption.
Serving Zion
Member
Where did you get this idea from? (perhaps you aren't aware of the spirit working in you to turn you against me where it ought not be happening).
The fact that Paul says he was alive before the commandment came, then sin came to life (hence the need to be born again). Therefore, He was already alive spiritually before the commandment came and sin sprang to life.
That is the fact that children are already born with spiritual life, because they have not done sin. Then, as sin spreads to all, so does the death, that they then need to be born again.
Serving Zion
Member
Im just trying to understand your statement that says...
Especially this part of your statement —
“then it tends to imply that everybody must be born again, which is not consistent with the teaching of Romans 7:9.”
Im not against you. Just trying to understand what your teaching.
Is it your belief that not everybody must be born again?
If so, why?
JLB
it’s not an assumption, it’s a statement made by Jesus.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5
Can we at least agree that the phrase... “that which is born of flesh is flesh”, refers to natural birth?
JLB
Serving Zion
Member
Ok.
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12
This would mean all men are born spiritually dead.
Not because they sinned, but because Adam sinned, and his sin spread to all his offspring; ie all men.
JLB
We don’t need to to stop, just trying to find a point of agreement.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5
Can we at least agree that the phrase... “that which is born of flesh is flesh”, refers to natural birth?
Its just a question.
Do you believe the phrase “that which is born of flesh is flesh”, refers to natural birth?
JLB
Tessa
Member
That is exactly what means to me
While I was reading this thread I could tell the presence of the Lord was here - and I have only read the first page
It is beautiful.
Blessings to you all. I am going to carry on reading now.
Serving Zion
Member
No, see you are reading it that way that I am specifically opposed to. Romans 5:12 says that death spread to all men because all sinned. It is because of their sin that death comes upon them, just as James 1:13-15 says too.
You say that sin spread from Adam upon all men, and I agree, but it is exactly how and when that we do not agree about. You believe that it is magically imputed to them, so that they are judged as guilty of a thing their ancestor did, right? I don't believe that teaching, and in fact, I fight against it.
Serving Zion
Member