What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[Consecrated Life]

The water that Jesus promised to give is "living water" - see verse 10

The drinking of regular water is life, this too is living water for we cannot live without
Drinking the baptismal water as Christ command completes the final crucial step of eternal living.
Hear Christ who says you must drink the water to complete all the required steps:

Jhn 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life

 

[Consecrated Life]

Why?
Because vile, unrepentant sinners, didn't do any baptisms in the bible.
That seems to be a more modern epidemic.
Of all those now doing baptisms, how many do you suppose are non-sinners?
They are the truly repentant.
That doesn't mean that all those baptized by sinners are automatically un-baptized.
Does it?

And that being the case, what of the truly repentant & believing un-baptized, that does not mean that they are rejected by God, Does it ?

 

[Mungo]

The drinking of regular water is life, this too is living water for we cannot live without

That is nothing to do with eternal life.

Drinking the baptismal water as Christ command completes the final crucial step of eternal living.
Hear Christ who says you must drink the water to complete all the required steps:

Jhn 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life

It's not a command.
And the living water that Christ gives is the Holy Spirit and that is given in baptism.
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.(Acts 2:38).

Nowhere does Jesus say you have to drink baptismal water.

 

[Free]

I think applying Jesus' lesson to the unborn and miscarried goes a little too far.

Not at all. If physical birth is necessary to enter the kingdom of God, then any who are not physically born cannot enter the kingdom of God. It's simple logic.

 

[Consecrated Life]

That is nothing to do with eternal life.

It's not a command.
And the living water that Christ gives is the Holy Spirit and that is given in baptism.
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.(Acts 2:38).

Nowhere does Jesus say you have to drink baptismal water.

Christ says the three part process of salvation must be completed .
Belief+ Water Baptism + Water Drinking = Salvation
This is why the Lord commanded that holy water was present for dinking at the Last Supper:

Mar 14:14
And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.

Thus making provision for His disciples, that they not fall short as you have in the drinking of the eternal life water.
You who are lacking completion of all required three steps the Lord has commanded must, "follow" & drink the water of life.

 

[Cooper]

Without water baptism, your old man is not killed and buried with Christ. (Rom 6:3-5)
That not having happened, neither are you raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
And you certainly won't be free from sin. (Rom 6:6-7)

All true. Can we have less of the personal pronoun please, I feel as though I am being personally attacked.
.

 

[Runmyramble]

Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew,[footnote says or from above I'm going to use from above] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicode′mus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (Jn 3:3-5)

The King James Bible and NIV use the term “born again” rather than born from above. The Greek word anathonen in the New Testament is normally translated from above, although it can mean again. In the KJV it is only translated again in this one passage, otherwise it is translated from above. So this usage which is so crucial to the fundamentalist/evangelical notion of being “born again” seems somewhat dubious.

Jesus’ interplay with Nicodemus relies to some extent on this double usage, with Jesus meaning born from above, but Nicodemus taking it as born again and not understanding how he could be born twice literally. Moreover the born from above ties in with Jesus being the one who comes from above (verse 31).]

A full analysis of Jn 3:3-10
3. Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.”
- or born again; it involves a rebirth, a second birth

4. Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot re-enter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”
- Nicodemus is thinking of physical birth

5. Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
- Jesus is telling Nicodemus this is a different kind of birth, a birth of water and Spirit. He is not saying there are two births, one of water and one of Spirit, but that the new birth, the rebirth, is by water and Spirit.

6. What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.
- the natural birth is of the flesh, but the rebirth is of the spirit (but is effected by water and spirit)

7. Do not be amazed that I told you, ‘You must be born from above.’
8. The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9. Nicodemus answered and said to him, “How can this happen?”
- Nicodemus hasn’t understood

10. Jesus answered and said to him, “You are the teacher of Israel and you do not understand this?”
- Nicodemus is a scholar – he should have understood the words of Ez 36:25-27
I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees.
You see water and spirit.

Moreover Nicodemus should have understood that on previous occasions when God makes a new start he does so with water and Spirit:

1. At creation – Gen 1:1-2
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

2. With the flood (Gen 7/8) God used water to cleanse the earth, then as the water subsided Noah sent out a dove “And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf plucked off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth. “ (Gen 8:11). The dove is a symbol of the Holy Spirit (cf Mt 3:16)

3. When God brought the Israelites out of Egypt to make them his people under a new covenant he took them through the waters of the red sea and protected them by a pillar of cloud and fire (the Holy Spirit) – see also 1Cor 10:2

4. Jesus, the new Adam is baptised in water and after that the Holy Spirit descends on him (Mt 3:13-16)

You see, each time water and spirit.

Immediately after this conversation with Nicodemus Jesus and his disciples go baptising with water. A co-incidence? I think not.

So where does that leave
Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit (Jn 3:5)

Clearly baptism with water.

Jesus the Christ is the only Pure water that came from Above...

Believers are born of Him....everything that was created was created through Him.


The pure water..

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

The inside of the cup....when it is clean then the outside will be....

Matthew 23:26

Did not Jesus tell the Pharasees-
"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also"

And the above is in alignment with the conscience in the Actual passage of the Thread 1 Peter 3:21:

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

What is the promise, pledge, appeal?
The Holy Spirit....(The life of Christ) recall the Spirit being Poured out...

Isaiah 44:3

For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Hence through the life of Christ...
The Spirit is the earnest deposit.....

And if by the Spirit one puts away the deeds of the flesh they shall live
Romans 8:13 (this show regeneration continuously being renewed by the Spirit of the mind)


Another words the Inside.....is the heart of the matter......For what is clean in the inside will make clean the outside.


John 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Ezekial 47:9
And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

So....No ...it's not about a water Baptism... For what is seen is temporary..
Water Baptism is seen.....What removes the dirt from your skin(imo-deeds of the flesh ) is to live by what will cleanse you..
Being renewed by the Spirit with the word...(both of those are unseen)

But what is not seen is eternal...No one sees the changing in your conscience but God...

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So...when I say not water Baptism...I'm speaking of...the one where a person dips you in water....

For there is one Baptism...and that Baptism- Jesus...who came by water and blood (humanity) and it is His blood that cleanses the inside and His water that flowed from Him that cleanses the out side.

Hebrews 9:13,14
The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!” ( Hebrews 9:13-14 )

Jesus is the Living word....the Pure Water.......and when life Springs up from the inside....One knows they have been cleaned from the inside out....

Theses are my thoughts...not trying to teach, but rather to get one's mind moving..

One Baptism will make you clean from the inside out....Jesus the Living Word
by His blood and Water....

1 John 5
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and these three are in agreement.

 

[Runmyramble]

Jesus the Christ is the only Pure water that came from Above...

Believers are born of Him....everything that was created was created through Him.


The pure water..

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

The inside of the cup....when it is clean then the outside will be....

Matthew 23:26

Did not Jesus tell the Pharasees-
"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also"

And the above is in alignment with the conscience in the Actual passage of the Thread 1 Peter 3:21:

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

What is the promise, pledge, appeal?
The Holy Spirit....(The life of Christ) recall the Spirit being Poured out...

Isaiah 44:3

For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Hence through the life of Christ...
The Spirit is the earnest deposit.....

And if by the Spirit one puts away the deeds of the flesh they shall live
Romans 8:13 (this show regeneration continuously being renewed by the Spirit of the mind)


Another words the Inside.....is the heart of the matter......For what is clean in the inside will make clean the outside.


John 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Ezekial 47:9
And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.

So....No ...it's not about a water Baptism... For what is seen is temporary..
Water Baptism is seen.....What removes the dirt from your skin(imo-deeds of the flesh ) is to live by what will cleanse you..
Being renewed by the Spirit with the word...(both of those are unseen)

But what is not seen is eternal...No one sees the changing in your conscience but God...

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So...when I say not water Baptism...I'm speaking of...the one where a person dips you in water....

For there is one Baptism...and that Baptism- Jesus...who came by water and blood (humanity) and it is His blood that cleanses the inside and His water that flowed from Him that cleanses the out side.

Hebrews 9:13,14
The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!” ( Hebrews 9:13-14 )

Jesus is the Living word....the Pure Water.......and when life Springs up from the inside....One knows they have been cleaned from the inside out....

Theses are my thoughts...not trying to teach, but rather to get one's mind moving..

One Baptism will make you clean from the inside out....Jesus the Living Word
by His blood and Water....

1 John 5
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and these three are in agreement.

Even with this said John the Baptist states it:

The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’  I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

 

[JLB]

What is being discussed is how man is born again.

The context, the subject matter of what Jesus is teaching Nicodemus is that Nicodemus must be born again.

Birth; born of the Spirit.

Water baptism comes after we are saved, and signifies that we have died with Christ to the world, and are raised to walk in the newness of life.

Only someone who is already saved, already born of the Spirit can make this solemn commitment.

Believers who are already saved are water baptized.

Those who believe are saved. Believing is how we are saved.

• The way we are born again is to believe.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Again, water baptism is about death.

Being born again is about birth.


Biblical water baptism is for adults who believe.

Biblical water baptism is where a person if fully immersed in water, going down under water, fully submerged under water and coming up out of the water, which signifies death and resurrection.

No where do we find in the Scriptures where infants had water sprinkled on them.

• What hinders me from being baptized?”

Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”



Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. Acts 8:36-39

• And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water,

JLB

 

[Runmyramble]

Even with this said John the Baptist states it:

The man on whom you see the Spirit descend and rest is He who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’  I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

This just came to me
Romans 3:30, KJV: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Romans 3:30

Recall the Holy Spirit the comforter would teach them and bring things into remeberence... and example of that happening is when Peter says this in acts:

"34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all."

Putting this together...We see there was teaching going on for Peter by the Spirit....Peter tells the Jews to repent and be Baptized at one point...(Justified by faith)....But the Gentiles in a particular passage who had already received the Spirit(through faith) The Spirit confirmed Christ within....As when God came over Jesus to confirm His son...

So in a sense this seems to be be transition time...in knowledge....2 worlds coming together as one under the same Spirit.
Jews had to turn to Christ and Believe..moving from under the law where actions were required directly by their flesh...to faith in Jesus for forgiveness and Justification...

While the Gentiles from the Jews only Religion(at the time) are saved through faith[I am thinking it's through the faith..but have to check] belief in Jesus as Son of God.

Just my thoughts...study for yourself...
Something to RESEARCH though...

 

[Runmyramble]

This just came to me
Romans 3:30, KJV: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Romans 3:30

Recall the Holy Spirit the comforter would teach them and bring things into remeberence... and example of that happening is when Peter says this in acts:

"34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all."

Putting this together...We see there was teaching going on for Peter by the Spirit....Peter tells the Jews to repent and be Baptized at one point...(Justified by faith)....But the Gentiles in a particular passage who had already received the Spirit(through faith) The Spirit confirmed Christ within....As when God came over Jesus to confirm His son...

So in a sense this seems to be be transition time...in knowledge....2 worlds coming together as one under the same Spirit.
Jews had to turn to Christ and Believe..moving from under the law where actions were required directly by their flesh...to faith in Jesus for forgiveness and Justification...

While the Gentiles from the Jews only Religion(at the time) are saved through faith[I am thinking it's through the faith..but have to check] belief in Jesus as Son of God.

Just my thoughts...study for yourself...
Something to RESEARCH though...

Basically immerse yourself in the Life of Christ.
Baptize Teaching them to do all that I commanded you...

When one is immersed in the presence of the Holy Trinity through keeping God's command by the Spirit..He may just want to show the world...He is part of the body of Christ.

He may just be off like a Rocket living for Christ!

 

[Hidden In Him]

And the living water that Christ gives is the Holy Spirit and that is given in baptism.
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.(Acts 2:38).

If you could, Mungo, please answer Post #78 on the assumption that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a metaphor rather than a tangible spiritual reality. When teachers assume such a theory, they can very easily then make the jump to saying that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit has "happened" when it actually hasn't, and teach a falsehood through their assumption.

 

[Mungo]

Christ says the three part process of salvation must be completed .
Belief+ Water Baptism + Water Drinking = Salvation

Wrong.
Jesus says Belief+ Water Baptism = Salvation (Mt 16:16)

This is why the Lord commanded that holy water was present for dinking at the Last Supper:

Mar 14:14
And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.

Thus making provision for His disciples, that they not fall short as you have in the drinking of the eternal life water.
You who are lacking completion of all required three steps the Lord has commanded must, "follow" & drink the water of life.

That doesn't say the water was for drinking; nor that anybody drank it.

It could have been intended for Jesus to change into wine.
Or more likely for washing the disciples feet. (John 13:5)

 

[Mungo]

If you could, Mungo, please answer Post #78 on the assumption that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a metaphor rather than a tangible spiritual reality. When teachers assume such a theory, they can very easily then make the jump to saying that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit has "happened" when it actually hasn't, and teach a falsehood through their assumption.

I didn't suggest that the Holy Spirit falling on the disciples at Pentecost, or on Cornelius in Acts 10, was not a reality, but that calling it baptism was a metaphor.

The same reality is described by a different metaphor in Luke 24:49
And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city, until you are clothed with power from on high.”
People who reject water baptism latch onto the baptised with the Holy Spirit metaphor but we don't hear anything about the clothing with the Holy Spirit (or with power).

 

[Mungo]

The context, the subject matter of what Jesus is teaching Nicodemus is that Nicodemus must be born again.

Birth; born of the Spirit.

Water baptism comes after we are saved, and signifies that we have died with Christ to the world, and are raised to walk in the newness of life.

Only someone who is already saved, already born of the Spirit can make this solemn commitment.

Believers who are already saved are water baptized.

Those who believe are saved. Believing is how we are saved.

• The way we are born again is to believe.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Again, water baptism is about death.

Being born again is about birth.


Biblical water baptism is for adults who believe.

Biblical water baptism is where a person if fully immersed in water, going down under water, fully submerged under water and coming up out of the water, which signifies death and resurrection.

No where do we find in the Scriptures where infants had water sprinkled on them.

• What hinders me from being baptized?”

Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”



Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing. Acts 8:36-39

• And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water,

JLB

You are ignoring post #138 and #143

You are also ignoring the words of Jesus "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)

 

[Hidden In Him]

I didn't suggest that the Holy Spirit falling on the disciples at Pentecost, or on Cornelius in Acts 10, was not a reality, but that calling it baptism was a metaphor.

I was aware of that. That's why I asked you very specifically the following question in Post #78: You don't believe that what you term the Holy Spirit "falling upon believers" was a baptism according to the early church?

Please read the following and give me an answer:

ἐγὼ μὲν ὑμᾶς βαπτίζω ἐν ὕδατι εἰς μετάνοιαν: ὁ δὲ ὀπίσω μου ἐρχόμενος ἰσχυρότερός μού ἐστιν, οὗ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἱκανὸς τὰ ὑποδήματα βαστάσαι: αὐτὸς ὑμᾶς βαπτίσει ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ καὶ πυρί (Matthew 3:11)

He spoke of two different baptisms here. One was in water, the other in fire. This distinguishes two different types of baptism, with two different substances they were baptized IN. The baptism in the Holy Spirit and Fire is not just a metaphor. It is a spiritual reality. The Holy Spirit Himself is Substantive, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a tangible and substantive experience as well, is it not?

 

[Hopeful]

And that being the case, what of the truly repentant & believing un-baptized, that does not mean that they are rejected by God, Does it ?

If they are "truly repentant and believing", they will get baptized.
The same Spirit that led them to belief and repentance will lead them to baptism.

 

[Hopeful]

Not at all. If physical birth is necessary to enter the kingdom of God, then any who are not physically born cannot enter the kingdom of God. It's simple logic.

As the unborn and miscarried were never dead in trespasses and sins, they had no need of rebirth.

 

[Hopeful]

Christ says the three part process of salvation must be completed .
Belief+ Water Baptism + Water Drinking = Salvation
This is why the Lord commanded that holy water was present for dinking at the Last Supper:

Mar 14:14
And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.

Thus making provision for His disciples, that they not fall short as you have in the drinking of the eternal life water.
You who are lacking completion of all required three steps the Lord has commanded must, "follow" & drink the water of life.

"Drinking water" is a simile for receiving the Holy Spirit.

 

[Hopeful]

All true. Can we have less of the personal pronoun please, I feel as though I am being personally attacked.
.

If you have repented of sin and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, why would you feel like it was an attack on you?