What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[JLB]

Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew,[footnote says or from above I'm going to use from above] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicode′mus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (Jn 3:3-5)

The King James Bible and NIV use the term “born again” rather than born from above. The Greek word anathonen in the New Testament is normally translated from above, although it can mean again. In the KJV it is only translated again in this one passage, otherwise it is translated from above. So this usage which is so crucial to the fundamentalist/evangelical notion of being “born again” seems somewhat dubious.

Jesus’ interplay with Nicodemus relies to some extent on this double usage, with Jesus meaning born from above, but Nicodemus taking it as born again and not understanding how he could be born twice literally. Moreover the born from above ties in with Jesus being the one who comes from above (verse 31).]

A full analysis of Jn 3:3-10
3. Jesus answered and said to him, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.”
- or born again; it involves a rebirth, a second birth

4. Nicodemus said to him, “How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot re-enter his mother’s womb and be born again, can he?”
- Nicodemus is thinking of physical birth

5. Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
- Jesus is telling Nicodemus this is a different kind of birth, a birth of water and Spirit. He is not saying there are two births, one of water and one of Spirit, but that the new birth, the rebirth, is by water and Spirit.

6. What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit.
- the natural birth is of the flesh, but the rebirth is of the spirit (but is effected by water and spirit)

7. Do not be amazed that I told you, ‘You must be born from above.’
8. The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
9. Nicodemus answered and said to him, “How can this happen?”
- Nicodemus hasn’t understood

10. Jesus answered and said to him, “You are the teacher of Israel and you do not understand this?”
- Nicodemus is a scholar – he should have understood the words of Ez 36:25-27
I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts. I will put my spirit within you and make you live by my statutes, careful to observe my decrees.
You see water and spirit.

Moreover Nicodemus should have understood that on previous occasions when God makes a new start he does so with water and Spirit:

1. At creation – Gen 1:1-2
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

2. With the flood (Gen 7/8) God used water to cleanse the earth, then as the water subsided Noah sent out a dove “And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf plucked off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth. “ (Gen 8:11). The dove is a symbol of the Holy Spirit (cf Mt 3:16)

3. When God brought the Israelites out of Egypt to make them his people under a new covenant he took them through the waters of the red sea and protected them by a pillar of cloud and fire (the Holy Spirit) – see also 1Cor 10:2

4. Jesus, the new Adam is baptised in water and after that the Holy Spirit descends on him (Mt 3:13-16)

You see, each time water and spirit.

Immediately after this conversation with Nicodemus Jesus and his disciples go baptising with water. A co-incidence? I think not.

So where does that leave
Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit (Jn 3:5)

Clearly baptism with water.

John 3:5-6 have nothing to do with baptism.

The context is birth.

Water baptism is about death.

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Romans 6:3


Being born again, born of the Spirit, born of God is about birth.


Jesus plainly emphasized and explained that He was teaching Nicodemus about spiritual birth, using natural birth as an example.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6



JLB

 

[Consecrated Life]

Baptism is the normative means by which God brings people to newness of life (Romans 6:4). It means the old life and person has died in baptism and is made new, born again (John 3:5). This belief is based on all the baptism texts of Scripture, which say baptism "forgives sins" (Acts 2:38), "washes sin away" (Acts 22:16), "regenerates" (Titus 3:4-7), "buries, unites us to Christ, and frees us from sin" (Romans 6:1-10), was typified in the Israelites crossing the Red Sea (1 Corinthians 10:1-4) and yes, "saves" us (1 Peter 3:21).


In Christianity, matter...matters. Water in salvation history brings both death and life. It represents the destruction of the old (former ways) and recreates something new. The waters of the deluge washed the sinners away, and through it something new was created. Thus Noah and his family were saved from sin through the waters of the deluge.


Hence St. Peter draws the parallel between the saving waters of the deluge for Noah and that of the saving waters of baptism for you and I. However, he goes through the trouble of the exclusion, "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God" to demonstrate the effects of the waters of baptism act not on the exterior (washing the flesh), but rather interiorly, on the conscience and soul of man. If you want to cleanse your flesh, you take a bath. If you want to cleanse your soul, you get baptized. Baptism, by definition, necessitates water. Yet water by itself is not a baptism and it exercises no power on its own; for it is but a material sign of what is communicated spiritually. It is only with the Holy Spirit does it become baptism. For baptism requires water and the Spirit. (cf. John 3:5)

In that vein then do you believe that an unbaptized, unbelieving, unloving individual of quite filthy flesh who is deceitfully posing as Christian is acceptable to God in performing this soul cleansing ceremony ?

 

[Mungo]

John 3:5-6 have nothing to do with baptism.

The context is birth.

Water baptism is about death.

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Romans 6:3


Being born again, born of the Spirit, born of God is about birth.

The context is about both life and death.
Take the next verse after the one you quoted:
Rom 6
3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

Being born from above is about life not death.

You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; (Col 2:11-13)

Jesus plainly emphasized and explained that He was teaching Nicodemus about spiritual birth, using natural birth as an example.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6



JLB

As I pointed out before - the natural birth is of the flesh, but the rebirth is of the spirit (but is effected by water and spirit)

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

The new life is effected by water and spirit

 

[Walpole]

John 3:5-6 have nothing to do with baptism.

The context is birth.

Water baptism is about death.

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Romans 6:3


Being born again, born of the Spirit, born of God is about birth.


Jesus plainly emphasized and explained that He was teaching Nicodemus about spiritual birth, using natural birth as an example.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6



JLB

First, if the water refers to natural birth, Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus' erroneous understanding of being born again. Nicodemus’ question to Jesus was clearly sarcastic. For surely he knew he could not climb back into his mother’s womb for a second birth. The question again was how a man can be born again, that is a second time. If the “water” which Jesus refers to is birth / amniotic fluid, then Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus’ sarcastic suggestion that he climb back into his mother’s womb for a second birth.

Secondly, NOWHERE in Scripture is being born synonymous with being "born of water." Lastly, our Blessed Lord says man must be born "of" water. The Greek word for "of" is ἐk, which means from / of / an origin of something. (Source) Man is not birthed from water, but rather from a mother; that is, a person. Man is not born from water / amniotic fluid. In other words, water is not the origin of man's natural birth and Scripture never refers to it as such. (e.g. Matthew 1:1-11)

 

[Walpole]

In that vein then do you believe that an unbaptized, unbelieving, unloving individual of quite filthy flesh who is deceitfully posing as Christian is acceptable to God in performing this soul cleansing ceremony ?

If a person needed to be baptized in an emergency (e.g. imminent death) and the only person available to do it was an unbaptized, unbelieving, unloving individual of quite filthy flesh, then yes they can, so long as they used water and the proper form as instructed by our Blessed Lord.

The virtue of the baptizer contributes nothing in baptism.

 

[JLB]

First, if the water refers to natural birth, Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus' erroneous understanding of being born again.

Jesus plainly stated what He meant:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

This is what is being discussed. This is what is being taught.

Jesus is refuting the erroneous mindset that the Jews had, which is:

If a person is the natural offspring of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, they are automatically in God's Kingdom.

That was the mindset of the day, when Jesus walked the earth.

Jesus taught Nicodemus that we must be born again, not just born: (as offspring from Abraham).

Jesus used earthly an earthly (natural) thing, natural birth, to teach a heavenly (spiritual) thing, spiritual birth.

Again, the context is birth. Jesus is teaching Nicodemus that he must be born again, not just be born from Abraham, but he must be born of the Spirit, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.






JLB

 

[Consecrated Life]

Whether baptised or not, those who follow the saviour all the days of their life are safe and secure in the arms of Jesus eternally.
.

Keeping in mind that, " Whether baptised or not.." is a statement at odds with the belief of this threads author, as evidenced in title of the thread:

"What is The Baptism that saves us now? "

 

[Consecrated Life]

If a person needed to be baptized in an emergency (e.g. imminent death) and the only person available to do it was an unbaptized, unbelieving, unloving individual of quite filthy flesh, then yes they can, so long as they used water and the proper form as instructed by our Blessed Lord.

The virtue of the baptizer contributes nothing in baptism.

That would be a rare circumstance indeed .
But what about such an unbelieving self-consciously obsessed poser performing the ritual under normal circumstances ?
You indicate that under normal circumstances such deceit being employed would result in a different outcome spiritually speaking ?

 

[Walpole]

Jesus plainly stated what He meant:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

This is what is being discussed. This is what is being taught.

Jesus is refuting the erroneous mindset that the Jews had, which is:

If a person is the natural offspring of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, they are automatically in God's Kingdom.

That was the mindset of the day, when Jesus walked the earth.

Jesus taught Nicodemus that we must be born again, not just born: (as offspring from Abraham).

Jesus used earthly an earthly (natural) thing, natural birth, to teach a heavenly (spiritual) thing, spiritual birth.

Again, the context is birth. Jesus is teaching Nicodemus that he must be born again, not just be born from Abraham, but he must be born of the Spirit, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.






JLB

What is being discussed is how man is born again. This is subject of the entire conversation. The subject is NOT how a man is born the first time, but how a person can be born a second time and thus able to enter the Kingdom of God.

Verse 5 is our Blessed Lord's answer to Nicodemus' question as to how man can be born again. Our Lord says two things are required for man to be born again. Here is the scene using the KJV...

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

----> Our Blessed Lord now describes how man is born again in John 3:5: Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

John 3:7 "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."


Blessed Lord is explicit that two things are required for a man to be born again and thus enter the Kingdom of God: Water and the Holy Ghost.


In Christianity, matter...matters. Sadly, many moderns have redefined what it means to be being born again (baptized) to being the point in time when one decides to kick a bad habit, like putting down the bottle.

 

[Walpole]

That would be a rare circumstance indeed .

Indeed, but possible.

But what about such an unbelieving self-consciously obsessed poser performing the ritual under normal circumstances ?
You indicate that under normal circumstances such deceit being employed would result in a different outcome spiritually speaking ?

Again, the virtue (or lack thereof) of the baptizer contributes nothing in baptism. Hence, even if an unbeliever performs the baptism, so long as water is used and the proper form (Trinitarian) given by our Lord, the baptism would be valid.

 

[Mungo]

That would be a rare circumstance indeed .
But what about such an unbelieving self-consciously obsessed poser performing the ritual under normal circumstances ?
You indicate that under normal circumstances such deceit being employed would result in a different outcome spiritually speaking ?

Let us suppose that, if as you are suggesting, a person who is baptised by a seriously unworhly person were not valid, but a person baptised by a good person was valid, then where on that spectrum between good and evil does baptism suddenly become invalid?

 

[Walpole]

Let us suppose that, if as you are suggesting, a person who is baptised by a seriously unworhly person were not valid, but a person baptised by a good person was valid, then where on that spectrum between good and evil does baptism suddenly become invalid?

Good question.

Going further down the rabbit hole...

What about someone who is baptized by a person who at the time was a good and faithful person, but ends up abandoning the faith? Would their baptism cease to be valid?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Indeed, but possible.

Again, the virtue (or lack thereof) of the baptizer contributes nothing in baptism. Hence, even if an unbeliever performs the baptism, so long as water is used and the proper form (Trinitarian) given by our Lord, the baptism would be valid.

Can you give a foundational scripture to back up God's use of someone unbelieving, unrepentant of sin, void of all virtue to accomplish something holy on behalf of another ?
I would accept any bible example constant with the aforementioned components , it does not have to be baptism ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Let us suppose that, if as you are suggesting, a person who is baptised by a seriously unworhly person were not valid, but a person baptised by a good person was valid, then where on that spectrum between good and evil does baptism suddenly become invalid?

Yes it is worthy of note that all of the spiritual possibilities that stem from alleging the salvation of one person requires the pro-active involvement of someone, anyone, who is not Jesus Christ are all negative.
There are absolutely no positives to be considered in regarding what level of secret unrepentant evil will pass muster with God once you make a sperate human heart a required accessory to another person's salvation.
No positives to consider only levels of negative .

This is corner you have painted yourself into when you have no specific foundational biblical example to fit the circumstance you have created .
That is why God always provides specific detail in matters of holy importance.
God commanded that a lamb was to killed for Passover .
Would any Lamb do according to God's command ?
Why not ?
After all every lamb's blood would be the same color red ?
Any blemish on a Lamb itself was immaterial to the blood that provided redemption.
Right ?
What about a lamb that had a spot but that spot was only seen one time when the owner sheered it, and once the wool grew back it could not be seen by any in the audience ?

 

[jaybo]

Baptism does not save anyone. If it does, then the simple ritual of being submerged in water and coming back out is all that is necessary for salvation, even if a person doesn't believe in the lordship and saving work of Jesus Christ.

Clearly, a person's salvation is entirely dependent on their believing in Jesus Christ as their savior.

John 3:16-18, "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God."

Notice that there is no mention of any ritual here; salvation is by belief, not by any ritual.

 

[Free]

John 3:5-6 have nothing to do with baptism.

The context is birth.

Water baptism is about death.

Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Romans 6:3


Being born again, born of the Spirit, born of God is about birth.


Jesus plainly emphasized and explained that He was teaching Nicodemus about spiritual birth, using natural birth as an example.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

Jesus plainly stated what He meant:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

This is what is being discussed. This is what is being taught.

Jesus is refuting the erroneous mindset that the Jews had, which is:

If a person is the natural offspring of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, they are automatically in God's Kingdom.

That was the mindset of the day, when Jesus walked the earth.

Jesus taught Nicodemus that we must be born again, not just born: (as offspring from Abraham).

Jesus used earthly an earthly (natural) thing, natural birth, to teach a heavenly (spiritual) thing, spiritual birth.

Again, the context is birth. Jesus is teaching Nicodemus that he must be born again, not just be born from Abraham, but he must be born of the Spirit, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

There is no need to go to Romans to define baptism in the context of John 3. Just look at the fuller context of John 3:5-6, namely, John 3:3-23:

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?”
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (ESV)

Notice the parallelism. In verse 5, Jesus appears to be just expanding on what he means in verse 3. That is, to be "born again" is to be "born of water and the Spirit." When we look at the rest of the passage, it is interesting that after Jesus's discussion with Nicodemus, it changes to Jesus and his disciples baptizing (vs. 22; see also 4:1-2). And we know it was with water because John the Baptist was baptizing in water (vs. 23); it also wouldn't make sense otherwise.

All that to say that it is most likely that "born of water" is speaking of water baptism, a baptism of repentance.

 

[jaybo]

There is no need to go to Romans to define baptism in the context of John 3. Just look at the fuller context of John 3:5-6, namely, John 3:3-23:

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?”
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (ESV)

Notice the parallelism. In verse 5, Jesus appears to be just expanding on what he means in verse 3. That is, to be "born again" is to be "born of water and the Spirit." When we look at the rest of the passage, it is interesting that after Jesus's discussion with Nicodemus, it changes to Jesus and his disciples baptizing (vs. 22; see also 4:1-2). And we know it was with water because John the Baptist was baptizing in water (vs. 23); it also wouldn't make sense otherwise.

All that to say that it is most likely that "born of water" is speaking of water baptism, a baptism of repentance.

John 3:4-6: Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb and be born a second time, can he?" Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Nicodemus is clearly talking about natural birth (from the mother's womb). Notice: Jesus did not say anything like "that is not what I'm talking about; I'm talking about baptism". He did say "what is born of the flesh is flesh". This clearly refers to natural birth. It is not referring to baptism. If it is, Jesus would have said so.

 

[Cooper]

Keeping in mind that, " Whether baptised or not.." is a statement at odds with the belief of this threads author, as evidenced in title of the thread:

"What is The Baptism that saves us now? "

Let John the Baptist point the way when he said: “I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." (Luk 3:16 ESV)

The Holy Spirit is God’s presence here on earth today that helps us, guides our hearts, and works at transforming us.

The Spirit helps us pray. (Romans 8:26-27).
And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don’t know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words. And the Father who knows all hearts knows what the Spirit is saying, for the Spirit pleads for us believers in harmony with God’s own will.

He gives us new life (John 3:3-6).
Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.” “What do you mean?” exclaimed Nicodemus. “How can an old man go back into his mother’s womb and be born again?” Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.”

He is our Comforter, and he helps us understand God’s word (John 14:26).
But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.

He lifts up Christ (John 15:26).
But I will send you the Advocate - the Spirit of truth. He will come to you from the Father and will testify all about me.

He convicts us of sin (John 16:7-11).
But in fact, it is best for you that I go away because if I don’t, the Advocate won’t come. If I do go away, then I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me. Righteousness is available because I go to the Father, and you will see me no more. Judgment will come because the ruler of this world has already been judged.

He helps us to live holy lives (Romans 15:16).
I am a special messenger from Christ Jesus to you Gentiles. I bring you the Good News so that I might present you as an acceptable offering to God, made holy by the Holy Spirit.

He gives us love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23).
But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!

He helps us share our faith (Acts 1:8).
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.

And he lives inside us (Romans 8:11).
The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.

 

[Mungo]

Yes it is worthy of note that all of the spiritual possibilities that stem from alleging the salvation of one person requires the pro-active involvement of someone, anyone, who is not Jesus Christ are all negative.
There are absolutely no positives to be considered in regarding what level of secret unrepentant evil will pass muster with God once you make a sperate human heart a required accessory to another person's salvation.
No positives to consider only levels of negative .

This is corner you have painted yourself into when you have no specific foundational biblical example to fit the circumstance you have created .
That is why God always provides specific detail in matters of holy importance.
God commanded that a lamb was to killed for Passover .
Would any Lamb do according to God's command ?
Why not ?
After all every lamb's blood would be the same color red ?
Any blemish on a Lamb itself was immaterial to the blood that provided redemption.
Right ?
What about a lamb that had a spot but that spot was only seen one time when the owner sheered it, and once the wool grew back it could not be seen by any in the audience ?

It's not I that is painted into a corner.
Your evasion is a demonstration of your complete failure to even attempt an answer to my question.

 

[Mungo]

Baptism does not save anyone. If it does, then the simple ritual of being submerged in water and coming back out is all that is necessary for salvation, even if a person doesn't believe in the lordship and saving work of Jesus Christ.

Clearly, a person's salvation is entirely dependent on their believing in Jesus Christ as their savior.

John 3:16-18, "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God."

Notice that there is no mention of any ritual here; salvation is by belief, not by any ritual.

Clearly you do not understand baptism.
It's not just being submerged in water.
Jesus said "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk 16:16)
belief + baptism = salvation
That is the formuala that Jesus gave us.

As Peter wrote: Baptism..... now saves you.