What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[Butch5]

The washing of regeneration is new life..being quickened by God...as noted..

The washing or bath of regeneration is baptism. This is how the early Christians understood the phase

 

[Hopeful]

Well, I'm glad that you became a Christian! However...
You are mistaking the use of parentheses in the King James translation as actual Scripture. Koine Greek had no punctuation! It was added by the translators. Secondly, the King James is a translation, not the original document.

I was just pointing out how water baptism and the resurrection of Christ work together.

Here is a verse that explains baptism as a ritual statement: "Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may live a new life." Romans 6:4 NET

Amen to that.
Killed with Christ, buried with Christ and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Thanks be to God.
These facts come to life in Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

Here are the verses that I believe best explain salvation: "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:7-9 NET

Thank God for His grace to believe that my old self was killed, buried and raised with Christ at my water baptism.
And it had nothing to do with the works of the Law that Paul preached against.

Notice that one is saved through faith, not through any "works" (including baptism). Secondly, and most important, it is a gift of God". It is entirely His doing.

Baptism isn't part of the Law, so why associate it with Jesus' commandment to baptize?

Being submerged in water doesn't save anyone.

Being buried with Christ does.

If it is accompanied by a statement of belief, fine, but it is the statement of belief that saves, not the ritual. Noah was saved because of his faith; he trusted God (who destroyed almost all life through water!)

Why would a "statement of belief" matter?
Isn't that a "work" you so detest?
The repentant who have faith that Jesus' commandment to baptize matters no longer walk after the flesh after their old man is killed and buried with Christ.
They are reborn to henceforth walk in the Spirit.
That is the only way to walk without sinning.
Your method can't provide freedom from sin.

 

[Hopeful]

Read the context...really slow

In my thoughts I do not see water baptism....
It's being identified with Christ through faith
It's not a [my words] a ritual washing ..
that takes place on the outside. (That's already eradicated in the text....
The ark was the PREFIGURED Baptism..
Those In the ark ....went through what the ark did. Yet they didnt face the wrath head on the ark did....But because they were in the ark they could Identify with it.
The Baptism...in my thought can be one or two things because of continuity..
First The saving, and then the continual saving.
Yet this is how your conscience is clear and continually made clear before God.

God gives us a new heart/Spirit...."poured out abundantly" Our Spirit is awaken by repentance and faith toward God...and when we walk in the newness of life our sins our continually forgiven because we are being immersed in the presence of God, "beyond the veil"

How do you equate "newness of life" with "continued sin"?
Sin was the old way of life.

 

[Hopeful]

Knowing that Jesus reserved some of His harshest condemnatory language for religious hypocrisy it astounds me to hear that there are Christians who believe that Christ would arrange a person's salvation completely acceptable to an immoral wolf in sheep's clothing, non-believing, child sex criminal fulfilling a required ritual .
The Christ I know is Almighty, and as such His Almighty Word alone contains all the Divine Authority needed.


Mat 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

The man baptizing matters not.
It is an action undertaken by ones with faith that their old selves will be cleansed, per the word of God.
The baptized's faith in evidenced here.

 

[Hopeful]

Hello, Mungo.

About the above, you don't believe that what you term the Holy Spirit "falling upon believers" was a baptism according to the early church?

ἐγὼ μὲν ὑμᾶς βαπτίζω ἐν ὕδατι εἰς μετάνοιαν: ὁ δὲ ὀπίσω μου ἐρχόμενος ἰσχυρότερός μού ἐστιν, οὗ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἱκανὸς τὰ ὑποδήματα βαστάσαι: αὐτὸς ὑμᾶς βαπτίσει ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ καὶ πυρί (Matthew 3:11)

He spoke of two different baptisms here. One was in water, the other in fire. This distinguishes two different types of baptism, with two different substances they were baptized IN, correct? The baptism in the Holy Spirit and Fire is not just a metaphor. It is a spiritual reality. The Holy Spirit Himself is Substantive, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a tangible and substantive experience as well, is it not?

Actually, he was talking about the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...using water, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
The baptism of fire will occur at the end of the world.

 

[Runmyramble]

Matthew 12
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

When I think of Baptism
I think of Identification(relationship)

Jesus was Identified by His father as His son..in His Baptism..(special one)

The prefigured baptism
Noah having faith

Red sea crossing-all drank from same rock (teachings)

John the Baptist-repentance

Etc

Another words puts us all in the same body....

He speaks of the washing or literally the bath of regeneration and renewing of the Spirit. This is what Jesus indicated when speaking with Nicodemus. He said one must be born or water and the Spirit.

That's already been discussed

 

[Runmyramble]

The washing or bath of regeneration is baptism. This is how the early Christians understood the phase

He already eradicated ritual washings in the text...."not the washing of dirt from the skin" (it's about a new heart) and I already discussed that too.

 

[Runmyramble]

How do you equate "newness of life" with "continued sin"?
Sin was the old way of life.

What did I write that shows I equate "newness of life with continued sin"?

 

[Runmyramble]

The word answer isn't really a good translation. It's better translated appeal. Baptism is an appeal to God from a good conscience.

 

[Runmyramble]

....

The word answer isn't really a good translation. It's better translated appeal. Baptism is an appeal to God from a good conscience.

That is your opinion. The scripture says answer, pledge....and word could be described as earnest enquiry...

And even with what you wrote:
One can't appeal to God from a good conscience until they have a new heart...

The Baptism is about being Identified with Christ. God quickened one together with Christ. (For grace are we saved)

Dead and now alive....
And how are we continually saved? (having our conscience continually clear before God?) Identifying with Christ.
Those who want to live must die [take up our cross]
We are to count ourselves dead, because we are in the one that died to sin.

This comes by a renewed mind by the Spirit....therefore it is Jesus, the one born of water and Spirit....who resurrected and is at the right hand of God who is our appeal/answer for a clear conscience toward God.

Those are my thoughts...

 

[Butch5]

....

That is your opinion. The scripture says answer, pledge....and word could be described as earnest enquiry...

And even with what you wrote:
One can't appeal to God from a good conscience until they have a new heart...

The Baptism is about being Identified with Christ. God quickened one together with Christ. (For grace are we saved)

Dead and now alive....
And how are we continually saved? (having our conscience continually clear before God?) Identifying with Christ.
Those who want to live must die [take up our cross]
We are to count ourselves dead, because we are in the one that died to sin.

This comes by a renewed mind by the Spirit....therefore it is Jesus, the one born of water and Spirit....who resurrected and is at the right hand of God who is our appeal/answer for a clear conscience toward God.

Those are my thoughts...

It's not an opinion. You can look in a lexicon.

Can you show me from Scrioture where it says one cannot appeal to God before they have a new heart?

 

[Butch5]

He already eradicated ritual washings in the text...."not the washing of dirt from the skin" (it's about a new heart) and I already discussed that too.

He didn't erradicte it. He simply explained it. It's not taking a bath, one is going into the water making an appeal to God from a good conscience.

 

[Runmyramble]

It's not an opinion. You can look in a lexicon.

Can you show me from Scrioture where it says one cannot appeal to God before they have a new heart?

19Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Placed by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way opened for us through the curtain of His body, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[Butch5]

When I think of Baptism
I think of Identification(relationship)

Jesus was Identified by His father as His son..in His Baptism..(special one)

The prefigured baptism
Noah having faith

Red sea crossing-all drank from same rock (teachings)

John the Baptist-repentance

Etc

Another words puts us all in the same body....

That's already been discussed

Well sure. Being baptized is being associated with Christ. The point is that's what saves.

 

[Butch5]

19Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Placed by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way opened for us through the curtain of His body, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Bodies washed with pure water

 

[Runmyramble]

He didn't erradicte it. He simply explained it. It's not taking a bath, one is going into the water making an appeal to God from a good conscience.

Meaning the scripture in the context....already puts in view...its not an outward washing...........so the scripture itself states what the Baptism is not.

 

[Runmyramble]

Well sure. Being baptized is being associated with Christ. The point is that's what saves.

Lol but you are taken it to mean water....when first the tree must be made good before its fruit will be.

So the heart is what is in mind here....

 

[Runmyramble]

Bodies washed with pure

For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Consecrated Life said:
Knowing that Jesus reserved some of His harshest condemnatory language for religious hypocrisy it astounds me to hear that there are Christians who believe that Christ would arrange a person's salvation completely acceptable to an immoral wolf in sheep's clothing, non-believing, child sex criminal fulfilling a required ritual .
The Christ I know is Almighty, and as such His Almighty Word alone contains all the Divine Authority needed.


Mat 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness

The man baptizing matters not.

To the man baptizing it matters incredibly, in spite of the beastly debaucheries the same hands may have carried out with no remorse or belief in the blood.
For the faithless Baptizer this is ritual showtime.
Covetous of their worldly status. power and profit through their own sinful deceit.
Unceasing in sin especially as they carry out the show ritual.
Their sole desire in the ritual being their personal rewards of their unrighteousness .

Do you really believe The Lord Jesus, who sees the hearts and thoughts of all would make such a spiritual spectacle from hell a requirement ?

2Pe 2:14
Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children

 

[Butch5]

For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

I'm not sure what this has has to do with baptism