What is the work of the builder that will burn?

[Jethro Bodine]

...you get your reward for planting and another gets their reward for watering as being good servants of the Lord. You have done what you were called to do whether that one comes to the Lord or not.

Yes, no question about it, but the passage clearly talks about a loss of reward, which I'm saying is the worker has nothing to show for his faithful labor in the building and field of God. He's talking about something different than the 'atta boy' God gives to every faithful servant of God regardless of whether the ministry of Christ through them affected anyone, or not. Ezekiel was purposely sent to a people that God plainly said up front would not listen to him. He has little or no reward of saved souls, but surely he has God's praise for doing what he was sent to do.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I had chuckled at myself and confessed that I could make a case that my participation in this thread may be considered as part of the works that shall be burned.

Only if you speak things that don't build the people reading what you write up into that which will survive the coming fire of God's Judgment. That's why we have to be careful how we build.

Certainly it's okay to have and hold a different thought than that which has occurred to me.

Gasp! Blasphemy, pure blasphemy!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Someone gradeating thru de hole 6th grad might thunk we wil b exulatiating the wurkers in the kingdumb of the workers.

"1 ... Are you not my work in the Lord?" (1 Corinthians 9:1 NASB)

"19 For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? 20 For you are our glory and joy." (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Are we really trying to interpret this to say that the 'works' is necessarily people?

Yes.

In English, adding the 's' to 'work' gives the connotation of our own personal effort of serving God. Leave the 's' off, as it is in the NASB Bible (I don't know about other translations) and it helps to more clearly see how Paul is talking about the goal and task accomplished, which is the building of Christ and all it's stones--1 Peter 2:5 NASB, and not the effort itself. But it often gets interpreted that it is the effort that gets burned up, not the actual thing produced by the effort. In the passage, the thing produced is what gets tested by fire, not the effort of the one who produced the result.

Which reminds me of a story. I taught a Sunday School class once in which I brought in a project made out of Popsicle sticks. I put it on a chair in the middle of the room and I asked everyone to test my work (actually it was my son's school project). After a while I asked why no one approached me to test my work--you know, the way we commonly interpret the passage about work being tested. And then I went on to explain that to test someone's work you test what they accomplished, not the person who accomplished it. There is a place for examining the motives and intent of the worker, but that is not what the analogy of the building and field is addressing.

The Matt 13 quote includes two characteristics or descriptors: "Stumbling Blocks" and "Those Who Commit Lawlessness". As you know, Romans 14 discusses stumbling blocks in great detail. I don't get the sense that the "stumbling blocks" referred to are people.

A stumbling block can be the thing that causes stumbling, and the person who brings that stumbling block. I was thinking that Jesus said to the Pharisees that they were stumbling blocks, but I checked and found that he said that to PETER! But I agree with you, I don't get the impression that he's talking expressly about people who are stumbling blocks.

On the other hand, "those who commit lawlessness" are clearly a group of people.

No question about it. Jesus is describing the Judgment of the damned in the lake of fire.

 

[chessman]

Did the Grower that caused the Kingdom to grow, by any chance use a human being to water?

Why yes He did. However, How that means that the works that Paul mentions that are to be burned up are once saved people (i.e. don't make it through the Judgment) though, I have no idea. In fact, it precludes it if you actually think it through. The work of growing the people is God's cause not Paul's or yours or mine. God, the same today, yesterday and tomorrow.


At least you now get the point that it's God that is causing His building (His Kingdom) to grow. Paul's point via 1 Cor 3 stands; that the work of growing the building (adding people) is God's work. The work of apostleship was Paul's. The work of ministering was Apollos'. Therefore, if yours and JB's answer is correct then it's God's work that's burned up, not Paul's or ours.

Really? John 15???? It's the same message there as well:


John 15:3-4 (LEB) You are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.

 

[JLB]

Sparrowhawk said -

The KJV translates Strongs G3956 in the following manner:

• all (748x)
• all things (170x)
• every (117x)
• all men (41x)

and as other words or phrases (167x) carrying essentially similar meanings.

Thank goodness we have the context and associated language of the scripture to help us to rightly divide the truth of God's word.

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Things don't wail and gnash their teeth.

JLB

 

[JLB]

If I were trying to convince myself of what you teach here, I might bring up 2 Tim 2:20-21 as well. That passage supports "The People View" but does not demand the "People Only View". That interpretation struggles to reconcile itself but does not seamlessly conform it's meaning to 1 Cor 2:12-13. JLB, are you certain that your view of the meaning of the gold, silver, etc., dubbed, 'The People Only View' is the only way of thinking on this?

I like the beginning of Lamentations 4 for support of what I hear you saying.

"How dark the gold has become, How the pure gold has changed! The sacred stones are poured out at the corner of every street. 2 The precious sons of Zion, weighed against fine gold, how they are regarded as earthen jars, the work of a potter's hands! 3 Even jackals offer the breast, they nurse their young; but the daughter of my people has become cruel Like ostriches in the wilderness."​

I see myself there all too clearly but I would need further convincing to think that this is the only way of looking at it. I have changed my mind a bit though. Thank you.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

 

[JLB]

I was about to go to bed and I found myself laughing at me (again) as I spoke to our Lord. I had chuckled at myself and confessed that I could make a case that my participation in this thread may be considered as part of the works that shall be burned. Now, if I were able to compose myself and somehow follow more closely after our God of Peace? That would at least move toward the gold, silver and precious stone direction.

Do me a favor when you see me enter disputes that have very little importance beyond "I'm right and you're wrong" especially in trivial things, consider the command found in 1 John 5:16 and apply it to me, or rather, for me. Please? Certainly it's okay to have and hold a different thought than that which has occurred to me.

We are glad to have your input in this thread.

This thread concerns the eternal salvation of God's people.

Those who err on the side of presumptuously thinking that we can live our lives any ol way and practice whatever sinful lifestyle we choose, even denying the Lord Jesus, and still be welcomed into the kingdom of God on the day of judgement are truly gambling with there eternal lives.

OSAS is a doctrine that is not supported by scripture.

These particular scriptures we are studying don't necessarily make or break either side position, as it is not as clear as the many others.


Never the less, OSAS is a doctrine that is not supported in scripture.

Thanks JLB

 

[chessman]

Did someone suggest that?

you are suggesting (teaching/answering in fact) that it's people (once saved people) that Paul means that are the loss and are burned up rather than our works, our labors that are burned up.

But we can't ignore the fact that he clearly talks about the potential of experiencing loss:
, so what then is the loss if what the worker builds is burned up?

I'm not ignoring the potential for our loss. Rather, I'm thinking this through as to what is lost/burned up per 1 Cor 3 is exactly.
Point 1 against your view (your and JLB's answer to the OP question): If the potential loss will be the people and it's God that caused their salvation in the first place (and Paul said that's true repeatedly), then it's God's loss, not just Paul's or yours or my loss if people is what Paul means by loss.
Point 2 against your answer: All exultation in Heaven (God's kingdom) goes to God (Jesus, The Father and The Holy Spirit) who Paul says is the one causing the growth of His kingdom. I don't find Paul boasting about his tally sheet of the growing members in the Kingdom. In fact Paul merely laid the foundation for the building (brought the Gospel message to them and others). Apollos remained and “waters it”, but it's God that caused it's growth. God deserves exultation for the growth, not Paul or Apollos who were merely God’s servants, workers and labors in that process of construction. Paul does deserve reward for his apostleship labor (Like a master builder he laid the foundation) and Apollos for his ministering labor (his watering it). As we do for our assigned labors (gifts/talents) if “each one [of us] must direct his attention to how he is building upon it”. Don’t do sloppy work. Direct your attention to your specific task assigned by the Lord. Whether you be called to be a master foundation layer (missionary) or to be a waterier (minister), etc. do that work/labor with all vigor and you’ll be rewarded.
Point 3: The major important point of the passage seems to be the points Paul repeats. God causes the growth, God causes the growth. Paul and Apollos are "nothing" relative to the cause of growth itself other than servants/laborers to the Grower and Lord over their assignments (each his own assignment). Stay in your swim lane.
The other important point that meshes with this point is that Paul "laid the foundation" and Apollos "waters them" i.e. "As the Lord gave" them their work assignments, their labors, their gifts, their talents, their opportunities to share and serve. They completed their assigned labors accordingly. And will be rewarded for it.
When the temple building is completely built according to God's precise specifications (and total # of members brought in) nothing but pure gold/silver and precious stones will remain anyway. No straw will remain in the building regardless of our work/labor toward turning straw into gold. Don't cast your pearls to swine, they left us because they were not (really) of us comes to mind. It’s just a brutally hard fact, that some people will never become a precious stone. At some point, it’s a waste of time/effort/labor to continue to witness to them (brush off the dust of that town from your feet and move on). Or as in Paul’s world travels, sometimes the Holy Spirit can be heard clearly enough to avoid those folks/towns altogether.

“so what then is the loss if what the worker builds is burned up?” The passage tells us (with as much detail as was intended, that is):

1. For the day will reveal it, because it will be revealed with fire,
   [unless you are a True Prophet and have “The Fire”; it’s evidently left until later for us to know precisely what works/labors of ours will be burnt up. But one thing we do know, it’s the works/labors that are burnt up (not people) here in this context. Yes, I know, that there are passages that say people are burned up elsewhere and in other contexts. There are also passages that say that burnt sacrifices are burnt up and are a pleasing aroma to God. I could go pull them into this 1 Cor 3 context as well. But that’s not the context here in 1 Cor 3. Paul is talking about works being burnt up, not people! And yes, I know that Paul is talking about the building (people) being added. But he's also talking about works/labors toward that end. And it's the works/labors that he says are burnt up (by God, by the way)]
2. and the fire itself will test the work of each one, of what sort it is.
   [Did you catch that? The fire itself will test THE WORK of each one (not test THE PEOPLE or the one). It’s God’s judgment (The Fire itself) that tests as to what works/labors He’ll burn up. (it’s also His judgment as to what people He’ll burn up, but that’s not what Paul is talking about here. We don’t know what works of ours will be burnt up (in other contexts). Also notice it not for us to know until “the day will reveal it”. But we do know that it’s “the work” that will be burnt up here in 1 Cor 3, not “the people”, however. So your answer is obviously wrong. We just aren't told what those works are for each of us.
3. “of each one”. It’s not even the same work for me that’s “burnt up” that it is for you or Paul. I’m not called to be a minister of a church. Even if I tried my hand at it, I wouldn’t succeed at that labor. Nor would Paul have evidently. Apollos was a good minister though.
4. But each one must direct his attention to how he is building upon it.
   [This is an important topic. And it’s important to get our “work/labor” right and in accordance with God's specific will for our lives. Which is why ministers (and by that I mean a pastor/elder position) need to be called specifically of God for that specific work/labor. It’s not a job for everybody. (although I recognize that we can ‘minister’ to people’s needs on an individual basis. That’s not what Paul meant Apollos was doing, however.) There’s a reason Paul left specific church ministers in the towns he evangelized and then moved on to the next town.]
5. 11 For no one is able to lay another foundation than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
   [What? No power of positive thinking gospel? Then what’s up with all this new age foundational teaching then?]

 

[JLB]

At least you now get the point that it's God that is causing His building (His Kingdom) to grow. Paul's point via 1 Cor 3 stands; that the work of growing the building (adding people) is God's work. The work of apostleship was Paul's. The work of ministering was Apollos'. Therefore, if yours and JB's answer is correct then it's God's work that's burned up, not Paul's or ours.

Really? John 15???? It's the same message there as well:


John 15:3-4 (LEB) You are already clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. [/QUOTE]


Of course God gives the increase, but the increase that God gives comes through those whom He as authorized to do the work.

Other wise, what is the use of Jesus spending His precious time on earth with just 12 men, and then saying these words to them...

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. Matthew 28:19-20

Jesus tells them to make disciples. That means years of spending time with and teaching their converts to do the very same work of reproducing Jesus Christ in their disciples.


Why all the five fold offices to bring the body of Christ to maturity if it is God alone who brings the increase all by Himself?


...till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;


11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ-- 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16

The mature life of Jesus Christ that was in Paul, will be reproduced in those whom Paul disciples or "fathers".

Those in turn will do the same, if Paul has followed the pattern He was given by Christ Himself.

We are all called to be conformed to the Image of the Son.

This work of maturing is done through the five fold giftings that God has placed in the body of Christ. Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist's, Pastors and Teachers.

However, the Apostle is to reproduce the Image of Jesus Christ in the believer, not the image of the apostle himself.


The point is God gives the increase THROUGH humans beings, those whom are in the body of Christ.

Your point seems to indicate that God bypasses the worker, and gives the increase all by Himself.



JLB

 

[chessman]

Your point seems to indicate that God bypasses the worker, and gives the increase all by Himself.

JLB

No, I have always recognized the worker/labor has his/her part.
Your point, however, is indicating that God losses people rather than people losing reward.

This thread concerns the eternal salvation of God's people.

Only if you think Paul is teaching in 1 Cor 3 that it's people that are burned up rather than some people's works/labors that has the potential to be burned up.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Therefore, if yours and JB's answer is correct then it's God's work that's burned up, not Paul's or ours.

Do you think God does not judge his own work? Do you think he is afraid to do that, or can't legally do that? Read this:

"4 "Do not trust in deceptive words,saying, 'This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD.' 5 "For if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly practice justice between a man and his neighbor, 6 if you do not oppress the alien, the orphan, or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place, nor walk after other gods to your own ruin, 7 then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers forever and ever. 8 "Behold, you are trusting in deceptive words to no avail. 9 "Will you steal, murder, and commit adultery and swear falsely, and offer sacrifices to Baal and walk after other gods that you have not known, 10 then come and stand before Me in this house,which is called by My name, and say, 'We are delivered!'-that you may do all these abominations? 11"Has this house, which is called by My name, become a den of robbers in your sight? Behold, I, even I, have seen it," declares the LORD. 12 "But go now to My place which was in Shiloh, where I made My name dwell at the first, and see what I did to it because of the wickedness of My people Israel. 13"And now, because you have done all these things," declares the LORD, "and I spoke to you, rising up early and speaking, but you did not hear, and I called you but you did not answer, 14 therefore, I will do to the house which is called by My name, in which you trust, and to the place which I gave you and your fathers, as I did to Shiloh. 15 "I will cast you out of My sight, as I have cast out all your brothers, all the offspring of Ephraim. "
(Jeremiah 7:4-15 NASB)

The church has been spouting the same mantra as the Israelites did who thought they could dwell in wickedness and still be safe, thinking that "this is the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord", would save them, as if God will not destroy his own dwelling place.

Like the Israelites, the church has been trusting in deceptive words, when what the church should be doing is humbly remembering what God did to the place where he first made his name to dwell at Shiloh.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Only if you think Paul is teaching in 1 Cor 3 that it's people that are burned up rather than some people's works/labors that has the potential to be burned up.

Paul built the foundation, Apollos is building on that foundation. The work being completed is outside of themselves. The scriptures themselves teach us that what gets built on the foundation of Christ (and the Apostles and Prophets) are believers--the church. This interpretation of 1 Corinthians 3 is entirely consistent with scripture:

"...you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord" (Ephesians 2:19-21 NASB)

And to save time I will only make reference to what this household of God is composed of in Revelation 21:10-11 NASB, AFTER the Final Judgment Revelation 20:11-15 NASB so it can be compared to what Paul is describing in the Corinthian passage.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Only if you think Paul is teaching in 1 Cor 3 that it's people that are burned up rather than some people's works/labors that has the potential to be burned up.

Paul built the foundation, Apollos is building on that foundation. Obviously, the work being completed is outside of themselves. The scriptures themselves teach us that what gets built on the foundation of Christ (and the Apostles and Prophets) are believers--the church. This interpretation of 1 Corinthians 3 is entirely consistent with scripture:

"...you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord" (Ephesians 2:19-21 NASB)

And to save time I will only make reference to what this household of God is composed of in Revelation 21:10-11 NASB, AFTER the Final Judgment Revelation 20:11-15 NASB so it can be compared to what Paul is describing in the Corinthian passage.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, no question about it, but the passage clearly talks about a loss of reward, which I'm saying is the worker has nothing to show for his faithful labor in the building and field of God. He's talking about something different than the 'atta boy' God gives to every faithful servant of God regardless of whether the ministry of Christ through them affected anyone, or not. Ezekiel was purposely sent to a people that God plainly said up front would not listen to him. He has little or no reward of saved souls, but surely he has God's praise for doing what he was sent to do.

How can one lose a reward that was never there to begin with. You make it sound like God has some big check list of all the rewards each individual should receive and then checks off the ones we miss if that one person doesn't accept the Lord after we witness Christ to them. The worker has everything to show for his faithful labor as being an obedient servant of God. Why would God send Ezekiel purposely to a people that God already told him they would not listen. Can you show me the scripture for this so I can read and learn from it.

 

[JLB]

No, I have always recognized the worker/labor has his/her part.
Your point, however, is indicating that God losses people rather than people losing reward.

Only if you think Paul is teaching in 1 Cor 3 that it's people that are burned up rather than some people's works/labors that has the potential to be burned up.

That would be isolating an entire doctrine on 1 verse, which would be like saying... For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

and teaching that it is impossible for a person to lose there salvation, because were are saved...


However, if you go on to read what Paul writes in the next chapters, you will see the truth.


9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. 1 Corinthians 5:9-11

By this clear explanation, I hope you can see that Paul is speaking to Brothers, in the Church at Corinth, born again Christians.


9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11


Paul is warning Brother's in Christ, who are in the Church in Corinth, that they are in danger of not inheriting the kingdom of God.

Not "rewards" in the kingdom of God, but the Kingdom of God itself.

Paul makes this warning to the Church in Ephesus, Galatia, Corinth and Rome. Not in inheriting the Kingdom of God means = sentenced to the everlasting fires of hell.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How can one lose a reward that was never there to begin with.

Well, we can look at in two ways:

1) The worker loses the potential reward of them as his crown of glory and exultation if they do not respond to the message at all. Or, 2) they do respond to the message, but do not continue in the message so as to be able to pass safely through the coming Judgment and be a crown of glory and exultation for the worker on the other side of the fire. Which is what I think Paul is saying in Philippians 2:14-16 NASB ...

"14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain."

The point being, if they don't hold fast the word of life, continuing to the very end in what they've heard, and presently obey (Philippians 2:12 NASB), they will not make it through the coming Judgment and Paul will have no reason because of their absence in the kingdom to glory in them, and his labor in trying to bring them to the kingdom will have been in vain.

But, like I say, I'm not really interested in turning this into a OSAS/non-OSAS thread. It will get closed down if we do that. I honestly just want to focus on what the work is that gets burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:6-15 NASB, with only a few references to the OSAS argument so as not to make that the focus of the thread.

You make it sound like God has some big check list of all the rewards each individual should receive and then checks off the ones we miss if that one person doesn't accept the Lord after we witness Christ to them.

I do believe that the one who has been entrusted with much (gifting, opportunity, knowledge, etc.) is expected to return much, but I don't think that's the thrust of the passage.

The worker has everything to show for his faithful labor as being an obedient servant of God.

Yes, his fruitful labor. But the worker has nothing to show for his unfruitful labor. That's exactly the point Paul wants to make to these Corinthians who don't trust him and his ministry. His point is, what value is to me, Paul, personally to build you up with a ministry and message into that which will not survive the coming Judgment and which will rob me of my crown of joy and exultation since you will not be there to be that for me?

Why would God send Ezekiel purposely to a people that God already told him they would not listen.

Because God is just. His Word is sent to both "destroy and to overthrow, To build and to plant" (Jeremiah 1:10 NASB). God's justice is that he let's those he knows will perish in the Judgment know exactly why they will perish in the Judgment.

Can you show me the scripture for this so I can read and learn from it.

Soitenly (nuk, nuk, nuk, nuk).

4 "I am sending you to them who are stubborn and obstinate children, and you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD.' 5 "As for them, whether they listen or not-for they are a rebellious house -they will know that aprophet has been among them. 6 "And you, son of man, neither fear them nor fear their words,though thistles and thorns are with you and you sit on scorpions; neither fear their words nor be dismayed at their presence, for they are a rebellious house." (Ezekiel 2:4-6 NASB)

"4 Then He said to me, "Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them. 5 "For you are not being sent to a people of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel, 6 nor to many peoples of unintelligible speech or difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; 7 yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate ." (Ezekiel 3:4-7 NASB)

 

[Sparkey]

Thank goodness we have the context and associated language of the scripture to help us to rightly divide the truth of God's word.

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Things don't wail and gnash their teeth.

JLB

If I took a toy and my young son and sent them both to the bedroom for a "time out," my son may be amused at the fact that the toy was "in trouble" too - but if I heard crying from the bedroom would you INSIST that the toy was a live human being because I said, "there will be crying tomorrow too if you don't behave" ??

Toys don't cry.
And you are right, things don't wail.

We simply can not make the Bible say what it doesn't say. By the way, I'm not talking about OSAS at all. I can't figure out why anyone would think I was. I am not given that task.


DISCLAIMER
The above story about toys and young goys was given as example only. It was not used to suggest any association between "things that offend" and toys, nor any between "those who practice lawlessness" and my young son, and further no direct association between crying and wailing and/or gnashing was intended. Please be careful when you quote me. I don't like it when I am misquoted. I doubt that God does either. It is easy enough to check by asking for MY meaning before putting words in my mouth, not saying that you would presume to do that but just saying, "Don't do it." IN FACT, those who ignore this caution will do so at their peril. They could lose property (should a judge in a court of law order it) and there will be wailing and sobbing and maybe some crying. And just to be clear, the property that was lost would NOT be giving the utterance nor doing the gnashing in my fictional example. Even though it is fiction - we all know that things don't gnash. Just to be clear, that is. Enough with the "THINGS must be human because I heard wailing and gnashing" argument, it doesn't fly. The only things that I can think of that do fly would be plane things. But even they don't wail and neither do they gnash. We ALL know this, even you.

 

[Kathi]

Romans14:10; Corinthians 5:10 Since we are Christians all of our sins are forgiven.God will reward us for lives that we have lived on earth.We will have to give an account of ourselves.Part of this is answering for our sins we committed.Believers will be rewarded on how faithfully they served Christ 2 Timothy 2:5.

 

[chessman]

Do you think God does not judge his own work? Do you think he is afraid to do that, or can't legally do that?

No, I know God judges His own work.

I see you've read Jeremiah? How about this:

Jeremiah 3:12, 14-18 Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say,‘Return, apostate Israel,’ declares Yahweh.‘I will not cause my anger to fall on you. For I am loyal,’ declares Yahweh.‘I will not be angry forever.

“Return, apostate children,” declares Yahweh. “For I am your master, and I will take you one from a city and two from a clan, and I will bring you to Zion.

Then I will give you shepherds after my own heart and they will feed you knowledge and insight.

And it will be when you have multiplied and become fruitful in the land in those days,” declares Yahweh, “they will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of Yahweh.’ And it will not come to mind, nor will they remember it, nor will they miss it, nor will it be made again.

At that time they will call Jerusalem ‘The Throne of Yahweh,’ and all the nations will be gathered to it, to the name of Yahweh, to Jerusalem, and they will no longer go after the stubbornness of their evil heart.​

Sounds like God has a plan to me. One that includes His rewards and judgment of His people and His Wrath for those that are not.