What is unconditional election, and is it biblical?

[Tri Unity]

To what end?

‘To what end’ is the most significant qualifying question. The answer of ‘to what end’ puts all else into its right context and understanding. What was the purpose of creation if before the foundation of the world we were predestined in Him? What was the purpose of the passion if the enemy was predestined from before the foundation? Why are we elected and chosen? Why is the Kingdom of God? Why is the Bride of Christ? Why is Israel? Why is salvation and Grace? All of these questions need to be aligned to God’s will as existed before the foundation of the world. "In the beginning was the Word."

 

[BornAgain]

‘To what end’ is the most significant qualifying question. The answer of ‘to what end’ puts all else into its right context and understanding. What was the purpose of creation if before the foundation of the world we were predestined in Him? What was the purpose of the passion if the enemy was predestined from before the foundation? Why are we elected and chosen? Why is the Kingdom of God? Why is the Bride of Christ? Why is Israel? Why is salvation and Grace? All of these questions need to be aligned to God’s will as existed before the foundation of the world. "In the beginning was the Word."

Well put!

 

[heymikey80]

No doubt there are many who feed the flock of God the false doctrine that they are chosen by God unconditionally... or worse, that the atoning work of our Lord Jesus Christ was limited.

Did Jesus accomplish atonement for the sins of everyone?

No, the revered scholars of the day who teach things like 'unconditional election', limited atonement, etc etc..

"He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit" Titus 3:5 I believe that was Paul, wasn't it? He's an Apostle.

Or how about this: "who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity" 2 Tim 1:9

So where do the conditions imposed upon me come in?

That's what the Holy Spirit of God does.. He convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. And no there would be no belief without the Spirit of God and the word of God convicting men of these vital truths... because that's what faith and conviction is based upon.. evidence.

So the Spirit of God just presents evidence, does nothing to us to establish faith? How about: "But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth." 2 Thess 2:13 . That would be an Apostle: Paul.

No doubt in my mind that He is.

"But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God." The Epistle of Paul to the Romans 2:29

Me neither, that's why He tells us plainly in His word that He hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

OK, good, but if the choosing is of the Spirit, the sanctification is of the Spirit, the change of heart is of the Spirit, and faith is from the change of heart ... then in what is God not bringing about?

 

[rrowell]

There just seems no logic as to why God would create a sinner then through his holy spirit says :

1 Timothy 2:3-4 (KJV)
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Knowing he would sin, the whole doctrine seems to make God's revelation to man through the Holy Spirit, and the Death of Jesus on the cross to be all pointless?

 

[heymikey80]

There just seems no logic as to why God would create a sinner then through his holy spirit says :

1 Timothy 2:3-4 (KJV)
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Knowing he would sin, the whole doctrine seems to make God's revelation to man through the Holy Spirit, and the Death of Jesus on the cross to be all pointless?

Well, there are other reasons which are not tied to this idea of leaving it up to the sinner to repent.

in no way alarmed by your opponents—which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and that too, from God. Pp 1:29

they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed. 1 Pt 2:8

 

[Eventide]

Did Jesus accomplish atonement for the sins of everyone?

IMO the scriptures make this perfectly clear... and the last thing I would ever think to associate with something like The Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world.. is the word..

LIMITED..

Although that's what is being taught today in many places and that is because of a misunderstanding of ELECTION to salvation in the first place... every one is being taught that THEY are the elect of God. The glorious doctrine of election is stripped from the Lord Jesus Christ (the one who is the ELECT) and placed upon condemned men in the first Adam..

It's just a lot of bad teaching imo

"He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit" Titus 3:5 I believe that was Paul, wasn't it? He's an Apostle.

No question about it !

Or how about this: "who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity" 2 Tim 1:9

Absolutely marvelous to say the least..

So where do the conditions imposed upon me come in?

Foundational biblical principles like Repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ..

Ever hear of those.. ?

Or things like this..

If ye shall seek to save YOUR life ye shall lose it, and if ye shall lose it for Me ye shall save it..?

Stuff like that ...

So the Spirit of God just presents evidence, does nothing to us to establish faith? How about: "But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth." 2 Thess 2:13 . That would be an Apostle: Paul.

That's what EVIDENCE does... it does establish FAITH.. and that is NOT of ourselves.. it is the gift of GOD !

OK, good, but if the choosing is of the Spirit, the sanctification is of the Spirit, the change of heart is of the Spirit, and faith is from the change of heart ... then in what is God not bringing about?

By grace through faith... it's as simple as that, isn't it ?

 

[Eventide]

A closer look into the mirror ?

IMO if we can't see that there is nothing good in me, that is in my FLESH... and that there is everything GOOD in Christ by the power of His Spirit..

Then we're just not looking closely enough at the evidence.

This is why the glorious and biblical doctrine of God's election unto salvation must be centered upon Christ alone.. He is the way, the truth, and the life.. it true whether we like it or not.. if we shall seek to save OUR life, we shall lose it, and if we shall lose it for Him and the gospel of God concerning HIS SON... we shall save it.

 

[heymikey80]

IMO the scriptures make this perfectly clear... and the last thing I would ever think to associate with something like The Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world.. is the word..

LIMITED..

What does atone mean?

Christ takes away the sin of the world through atonement and redemption and judgment and condemnation. If the Atonement were unlimited, there would be no one entering into judgment and condemnation.

There would be no Last Judgment.

Mark it well: the Atonement is limited: either in extent or in intent. The only question is which limit. The question is not whether the Atonement is limited. The question is only how it's limited.

Except for universalists.

 

[heymikey80]

Foundational biblical principles like Repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ..

Ever hear of those.. ?

But as it's already noted: the Spirit of God brings about a heart change of faith and repentance. So God brings that to people.

Or things like this..

If ye shall seek to save YOUR life ye shall lose it, and if ye shall lose it for Me ye shall save it..?

Stuff like that ...

God creates the will, which motivates the seeking through the person's willfulness.

That's what EVIDENCE does... it does establish FAITH.. and that is NOT of ourselves.. it is the gift of GOD !

No, it doesn't. I can present the exact same evidence to two different people: one will accept it in faith, the other will reject it in unbelief.

Evidence doesn't engender faith. The will engenders faith, through a change of heart, by the Spirit of God. The Spirit began a good work inside you. Evidence certainly builds faith, and grows faith. But it doesn't create faith in the human heart.

By grace through faith... it's as simple as that, isn't it ?

"for with the heart a person believes" Rom 10:10

Who changes hearts?

 

[Eventide]

But as it's already noted: the Spirit of God brings about a heart change of faith and repentance. So God brings that to people.

The goodness of God leads us to repentance, He doesn't repent for us.

God commands all men everywhere to repent.. And I can't even begin to imagine how some are led to believe that God does this for you and not for all His creatures..

It must be those teachers...

 

[savedbygrace57]

born again

I do not use my opinion

Yes you do. Because Reprobation is taught in the bible, its those who are rejected of God !

 

[savedbygrace57]

rr

(all men) were from the beginning it was his will, for (all men), to
be IN HIM

Thats False Teaching and wresting scripture to your own destruction, see ya at the Judgment !

 

[BornAgain]

born again



Yes you do. Because Reprobation is taught in the bible, its those who are rejected of God !

Again, I will use scripture, not my opinion.

Reprobate: Romams 1:27-29
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Romans 1:27-29 (KJV)


God gave them up unto a reprobate mind,—This is the third time the retributive abandonment by God is mentioned. In verse 24 it was "to uncleanness"; in verse 26, "unto vile passions"; and here, "unto a reprobate mind." A "reprobate mind" is one lost to virtue, wholly given up to sin, abandoned to error, lost to all sense of duty. When God saw that they did not like to retain the knowledge of him in their mind, he gave them over to sin without further effort to restrain them. to do those things which are not fitting;—Such behavior as is abhorrent to every dictate of sound reason and inconsistent with all human duties. The sins charged are specified in the following verses.

Reprobation: Not found in the bible....if you can show me where it is then please post it.



Reprobation, in Christian Theology, is a corollary to the Calvanistic doctrine of unconditional election which derives that some of mankind (the elect) are predestined by God for salvation. Therefore, the remainder are left bound to their fallen nature and certain damnation. This same state of unbelief is also known as reprobation. In Calvinist terminology, the non-elect are often referred to as the reprobate. Similarly, when a sinner is so hardened as to feel no remorse or misgiving of conscience, it is considered as a sign of reprobation.


This is not taught in the bible. Although the words are similar have a completely different meaning.

​

 

[WIP]

‘To what end’ is the most significant qualifying question. The answer of ‘to what end’ puts all else into its right context and understanding. What was the purpose of creation if before the foundation of the world we were predestined in Him? What was the purpose of the passion if the enemy was predestined from before the foundation? Why are we elected and chosen? Why is the Kingdom of God? Why is the Bride of Christ? Why is Israel? Why is salvation and Grace? All of these questions need to be aligned to God’s will as existed before the foundation of the world. "In the beginning was the Word."

I still don't understand. I read your response above and I hear nothing but someone talking in circles and I still ask, why?

God says we must believe on our lord, Jesus Christ but in the same breath told that we can't believe unless God wills us to believe therefore, telling us to believe is meaningless and pointless because it is not within our power or control to do so.

 

[Eventide]

I still don't understand. I read your response above and I hear nothing but someone talking in circles and I still ask, why?

God says we must believe on our lord, Jesus Christ but in the same breath told that we can't believe unless God calls us to believe therefore, telling us to believe is meaningless and pointless because it is not within our power or control to do so.

The scriptures do not anywhere teach that man can not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.. although they do plainly teach why some can't believe..

How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Isn't it ironic that the testimony of many right here on these boards is that they could NOT believe.. and isn't it ironic that these same ones are all followers of the doctrine of John Calvin...?

 

[WIP]

Maybe that's where my confusion is coming from.

 

[Eventide]

Sadly enough, that is where much confusion comes from today.. from honouring the doctrines of men.

 

[heymikey80]

The goodness of God leads us to repentance, He doesn't repent for us.

Those not born of the Spirit are not spirit. People don't give birth to their own spirits. John 3:6

God commands all men everywhere to repent.. And I can't even begin to imagine how some are led to believe that God does this for you and not for all His creatures.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:5

Are you saying everyone is born again? Because you've said you can't imagine how this isn't being done for some, but not all of God's creatures.

It must be those teachers...

Yep, Jesus is a great Teacher, even of Nicodemus.

 

[Eventide]

Those not born of the Spirit are not spirit. People don't give birth to their own spirits. John 3:6

I agree.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:5

Are you saying everyone is born again? Because you've said you can't imagine how this isn't being done for some, but not all of God's creatures.

No, everyone who RECEIVES HIM is given power to become the sons of God.. it's like bible 101.

Yep, Jesus is a great Teacher, even of Nicodemus.

He's the best there is no doubt.

 

[Eventide]

Mary is a wonderous picture of being born again imo..

Se heard the message from above, and believed it.. and Christ was miraculously born in her by the power of the Holy Spirit of God.