"What must I do to be saved?"

[XTruth]

AnnieHere,

I am somewhat amazed at your conclusion drawn from the question posed in Acts 2:37!

"Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?"
-Acts 2:37

For the correct answer is provided in the very next verse, and it is a long way from being...NOTHING!

Acts 2:38 KJV
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Please, if you would, share the logic that you are using to arrive at such a conclusion.

In Christ,

Pogo

In Acts 2:37, God is the One who did the work... HE PRICKED THEIR HEART.
In Acts 2:38, now they were then able to repent and receive salvation from God.

The Bible says:

"The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
-Jer.17:9

Before a man can do any repenting, God first has to give him a NEW heart:

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. "
-Ezek. 36:26

The epistles have been written to the church for it’s entire age for the purpose of maintaining church order, correct doctrine, and Christian discipline. We can take one of the shortest epistles and learn what true assurance of salvation is. In the following commands and warnings from the book of Philippians, you’ll see the work one must continue in if they want to remain justified. Believing Jesus is the Son of God is the only place to start your walk of salvation, but obeying the gospel program is the only assurance one has. For true eternal security and assurance of salvation, a Christian must:

Become a subject of God’s grace (Phil.1:6); be a partaker of God’s grace (Phil.1:7); abound more and more in love (Phil.1:9); approve things that are excellent (Phil.1:10); be sincere until the end (Phil.1:10); be without offence till the end (Phil.1:10); be filled with the fruits of righteousness (Phil.1:11); let your manner of life be as becomes the gospel of Christ (Phil.1:27); stand fast in one spirit and one mind with others striving together for the gospel (Phil.1:27); be not terrified by the enemy (Phil.1:28); suffer for His sake (Phil.1:29); be likeminded with Christ (Phil.2:2); have the same love (Phil.2:2); be of one accord and of one mind with others (Phil.2:2; 3:16); and let nothing be done through strife or vain glory (Phil.2:3).

Continuing on, we must also: esteem others better than yourself (Phil.2:3); be interested in others (Phil.2:4); let the mind of Christ be in you (Phil.2:5); obey the gospel (Phil.2:12); work out your own salvation (Phil.2:12-13); do all things without murmuring and disputing (Phil.2:14); be blameless, harmless, and without rebuke among men (Phil.2:15); hold forth the Word of Life (Phil.2:16); beware of dogs, evil workers, and the circumcision party (Phil.3:2); press toward the high calling (Phil.3:13-16); walk by the gospel standard (Phil.3:16); and be followers of the apostles and mark the enemies of the cross of Christ (Phil.3:17-20), stand fast in the Lord (Phil.4:1); help all workers of Christ (Phil.4:3); rejoice in the Lord always (Phil.4:4); let your moderation be known to all men (Phil.4:5); be anxious for nothing (Phil.4:6); let request be known to God (Phil.4:6); think on right things (Phil.4:8); and do what you’ve learned, received, and heard (Phil.4:9). To simplify this in your memory, just love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength; also loving people by treating them better than yourself, because the one you call Father has given His beloved Son to die for them as well.

The following are the works of keeping salvation and the conditions of eternal life. Salvation isn’t kept and manifested as eternal unless you labor for it (Jn.6:27). We must also: come to Christ (Jn.6:37, 44, 45, 65); eat His flesh and drink His blood (Jn.6:50-51, 53, 58); reap (Jn.4:35-38); hate (love less) the life in this world (Jn.12:25); know God and Christ (Jn.17:2-3); enter right gate (Mat.7:13-14); cause no offense (Mat. 18:8-9); keep commandments (Mat.19:17; Jn.8:31, 51); forsake all (Mat.19:27-29; Mk.10:28-30; Lk.18:28-30); live free from sin (Rom.5:21; 6:16-23; 8:1-13; Tit.2:11-14); continue in well doing and seek eternal life (Rom.2:7); sow to the Spirit (Gal.6:7-8); fight the good fight of faith; lay hold on it (1 Tim.6:12, 19); be sober and hope to the end for it (Tit.1:2; 3:7; 1 Pt.1:5, 9, 13; Rom.8:24); endure temptations (Jas.1:12); let the promise of it remain in you and continue in God and Christ (1 Jn.2:24-25; 5:11-20); love everybody (1 Jn.3:14-15); keep yourself in the love of God, looking for eternal life (Jude 20-24); overcome sin (Rev.2:7, 11, 17, 26; 3:5, 12, 21); be faithful unto death (Rev.2:10; Heb.12:14-15); believe and obey the gospel (Jn.3:15-19, 36; 4:14; 5:24; 6:40; 47, 54; 2 Cor.5:17; Rom.1:5); and be born again, hear Christ, and follow Him (Jn.3; 10:27-29).

God changes a man's heart according to His will

Mat.11:28-30
28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jn.3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 Tim.2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pt.3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Rev.22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.


So is it your position that God doesn't want all to be saved and just chooses a few since we know only a few will be saved (Mat.7:13-14; Lk.13:24; 1 Pt.4:17-19; Rev.20:11-15)?
Is your position that God shows favoritism, which we know He does not (2 Sam.14:14; 2 Chr.19:7; Acts 10:34-35; Rom.2:11; Eph.6:9; Col.3:25; 1 Pt.1:17)?

Or is God just not doing His job, since He wants all men to be saved and none of this has a thing to do with anything we can do, yet we are told to do so much, yet you say God will do it for us, yet only for a few, yet He wants all to be saved?


Acts 2:38
Acts 2:38 is what all sinners must do, along w/ Lk.13:1-5; 24:47; 1 Jn.1:9...SOMETHING MAN MUST DO.

Jer.17:9
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
The answer is in the next verse...
Jer.17:10
I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
If you look at what's going on around the verses you use, you'll see that the passage is Jer.17:5-12 and is a comparison of two natures, the flesh and the Spirit. Verse 5 speaks of the cursed who is trusting in man, and maketh his flesh his arm, his heart departs from the Lord. Verse 7 speaks of the blessed man who trusts and hopes in the Lord. This coincides w/ Rom.8:1-13 and Gal.5:16-26 in the New Testament.
Gal.6:7-8 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting." (Sowing is something we do)

Eze.36:26
is in reference to the regathering of all Israel from among the nations, God will fully redeem them and make them His eternal people (Eze.36:25-30). Although this verse could be used to describe what is done to all regenerated men, we shouldn't use it to prove that God does all the work, not while understanding that God desires ALL to be saved (Mat.11:28-30; Jn.3:16; 1 Tim.2:4; 2 Pt.3:9; Rev.22:17). Then we'd have to believe the Bible is false b/c it contradicts itself when you actually read the stories of Israel's disobedience in the O.T. AFTER being regenerated, receiving the Spirit, grace, being called children, and being born-again. Even the N.T. gives that picture (Rom.11:17-24; 1 Cor.10:1-11; Heb.12:25; Jude 6).

Jas.2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Adullam]

Warning.....heavy doctrine alert! :muchlove

There will never be agreement on this subject (and many others) until there is more understanding of God's way.

There are 2 levels of salvation, just as there are 2 resurrections. There is the level of righteousness and there is the level of holiness (God's own righteousness). John the Baptist exemplifies the best in the way of righteousness. Jesus Christ is the standard of holiness.

There are also 2 standards in an army....one for the enlisted man, and one for the officers. (I am not talking about the dreaded clergy plague here) The greatest among the enlisted men is less than the junior officer (well at least in theory ;) )

Basic salvation is based on doing what is right in God's sight. Such a person is saved through obedience and humility. This is by grace nevertheless.....ironically, the very kind of grace that Christians claim covers their sins. But this is for non-disciples. The righteous are scarecely saved. They don't know any better. To whom less is given...less is required.

Then there is the abundant salvation through Jesus Christ. This is unto glory. This salvation IS BUILT ON THE FIRST LEVEL. Disciples have their gift of grace NOW...that they should be conformed to Christ and do the good works prepared in advance. These are perfect works that originate in heaven. This is a standard in holiness. The saints that are thus forged become the Bride of Christ and will rule over the righteous in the next age.

So we can have our inheritance of grace now or later. But one MUST please God in order to attain this grace whether now or later. God decides who receives grace! We Christians would beg to differ, no? We don't want others to receive grace! Just as the Jews had difficulty with we having been offered grace as well. We all clamour to be special and exclude others. So the cycle continues.....He who does not gather with Me, scatters. He who is not against Me is for Me!

Modern Christianity has taken the desirable elements of (cherry picking) each type of salvation while leaving out the context that brings the power and reality of each. Call it a hybrid that destroys righteousness in both it's forms (ours and the Lord's). This was quite easy for the enemy to accomplish. Who wants difficulties?

Are we past the point of hearing sound apostolic doctrine??? I think so! But I hope not!

<><

John

 

[LostSoul]

Danielle,

Frankly, I don't understand what you are disagreeing with.[/b]

God does ALL the work of salvation

The faith comes as a result of God's grace:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
-Ephesians 2:8-9

Believing is a work that we do. I never said that believing is enough, for one cannot believe unto salvation unless God has ordained it.

What does it mean to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? It doesn't mean just to acknowledge Him or recognize that He did exist, or that He came as the Saviour and died for sinners, etc. To believe on Him means that we have abandoned our will to Him and that we have surrendered ourselves to Him. He has become the Lord of our life we have come to trust altogether in Him; and only God can give us that kind of belief... it has to be a gift of God.

For a true believer, good works come naturally, because God gives them a new nature. (2Cor.5:17)

AnnieHere,

What I am disagreeing with, feel free to correct me should I be somehow misquoting you, is the idea that free will in itself seems to be something completely overlooked here. For in the begining God made us with the CHOICE of loving Him and accepting Him.

No doubt that God is the key to our salvation through Christ Jesus. There can be NO arguing that let alone debate on it. I do agree that God is also the one in which motivates, inspires, and drives us to not only have faith in Him but also live in accordance to our faith. So yes, God IS the foundation of which our faith should be based. He IS also the very structure upon which our faith must reside, dwell, and live.

Just it all starts with acceptance on our accounts with what He has to offer us. Which is forgiveness, unconditional love, mercy, and a real chance at redemption.

Again, I do apologize if I have offended you in any way. None was intended.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Joe67]

Eccl 4:9-12
9 Two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor. 10 For if either of them falls, the one will lift up his companion. But woe to the one who falls when there is not another to lift him up. 11 Furthermore, if two lie down together they keep warm, but how can one be warm alone? 12 And if one can overpower him who is alone, two can resist him. A cord of three strands is not quickly torn apart. NAS

This is the format of God's government in Jesus Christ which we are discussing. Two, even three parts to the gift of God in Jesus Christ. 1Corinthians 1:30.

The apostle John testified through the spirit of Jesus as follows:
1 John 2:12-15
12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake. 13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. 14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one. NAS

God, the Father, in and by Jesus Christ our Lord, leads us in three phases of revelation, conviction, edification and discipline/chastening.

Joe

 

[AnnieHere]

Danielle,

Frankly, I don't understand what you are disagreeing with.[/b]

God does ALL the work of salvation

The faith comes as a result of God's grace:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
-Ephesians 2:8-9

Believing is a work that we do. I never said that believing is enough, for one cannot believe unto salvation unless God has ordained it.

What does it mean to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? It doesn't mean just to acknowledge Him or recognize that He did exist, or that He came as the Saviour and died for sinners, etc. To believe on Him means that we have abandoned our will to Him and that we have surrendered ourselves to Him. He has become the Lord of our life we have come to trust altogether in Him; and only God can give us that kind of belief... it has to be a gift of God.

For a true believer, good works come naturally, because God gives them a new nature. (2Cor.5:17)

AnnieHere,

What I am disagreeing with, feel free to correct me should I be somehow misquoting you, is the idea that free will in itself seems to be something completely overlooked here. For in the begining God made us with the CHOICE of loving Him and accepting Him.

No doubt that God is the key to our salvation through Christ Jesus. There can be NO arguing that let alone debate on it. I do agree that God is also the one in which motivates, inspires, and drives us to not only have faith in Him but also live in accordance to our faith. So yes, God IS the foundation of which our faith should be based. He IS also the very structure upon which our faith must reside, dwell, and live.

Just it all starts with acceptance on our accounts with what He has to offer us. Which is forgiveness, unconditional love, mercy, and a real chance at redemption.

Again, I do apologize if I have offended you in any way. None was intended.

May God Bless You

Danielle

"FREEWILL" is a false doctrine. Most all the churches erroneously teach that one must "choose" Christ. But the Bible says differently:

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."
John 15:15:16

"I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me."
-John 13:18

"Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." -John 17:24

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. "
-John 6:44

We cannot receive salvation by "accepting" Christ. Accepting is a work that we do. (Eph.2:8-9) The concept that we have any input in the salvation process goes against the Bible.
People like to think that they did... or can do something to get themselves saved.

But the truth is...before the world began God elected a certain number of individuals unto everlasting salvation whom he did predestinate to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ of his own free grace, and according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL. Those whom God has chosen and predestinated to be saved, He 'causes' them to repent; to seek Him... and He works all things together for their good to perform His perfect will. (Ezek.36:26-27)

"Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein HE hath made us accepted in the beloved.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace"
Ephesians 1:3-7

"Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God."
1 Thessalonians 1:4

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ"
-1 Thessalonians 5:9

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."
-2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
-Romans 8:29

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose."
-Romans 8:28

God bless you, Danielle.

 

[XTruth]

Danielle,

Frankly, I don't understand what you are disagreeing with.[/b]

God does ALL the work of salvation

The faith comes as a result of God's grace:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
-Ephesians 2:8-9

Believing is a work that we do. I never said that believing is enough, for one cannot believe unto salvation unless God has ordained it.

What does it mean to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? It doesn't mean just to acknowledge Him or recognize that He did exist, or that He came as the Saviour and died for sinners, etc. To believe on Him means that we have abandoned our will to Him and that we have surrendered ourselves to Him. He has become the Lord of our life we have come to trust altogether in Him; and only God can give us that kind of belief... it has to be a gift of God.

For a true believer, good works come naturally, because God gives them a new nature. (2Cor.5:17)

AnnieHere,

What I am disagreeing with, feel free to correct me should I be somehow misquoting you, is the idea that free will in itself seems to be something completely overlooked here. For in the begining God made us with the CHOICE of loving Him and accepting Him.

No doubt that God is the key to our salvation through Christ Jesus. There can be NO arguing that let alone debate on it. I do agree that God is also the one in which motivates, inspires, and drives us to not only have faith in Him but also live in accordance to our faith. So yes, God IS the foundation of which our faith should be based. He IS also the very structure upon which our faith must reside, dwell, and live.

Just it all starts with acceptance on our accounts with what He has to offer us. Which is forgiveness, unconditional love, mercy, and a real chance at redemption.

Again, I do apologize if I have offended you in any way. None was intended.

May God Bless You

Danielle

"FREEWILL" is a false doctrine. Most all the churches erroneously teach that one must "choose" Christ. But the Bible says differently:

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."
John 15:15:16

"I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me."
-John 13:18

"Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." -John 17:24

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. "
-John 6:44

We cannot receive salvation by "accepting" Christ. Accepting is a work that we do. (Eph.2:8-9) The concept that we have any input in the salvation process goes against the Bible.
People like to think that they did... or can do something to get themselves saved.

But the truth is...before the world began God elected a certain number of individuals unto everlasting salvation whom he did predestinate to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ of his own free grace, and according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL. Those whom God has chosen and predestinated to be saved, He 'causes' them to repent; to seek Him... and He works all things together for their good to perform His perfect will. (Ezek.36:26-27)

"Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein HE hath made us accepted in the beloved.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace"
Ephesians 1:3-7

"Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God."
1 Thessalonians 1:4

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ"
-1 Thessalonians 5:9

"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."
-2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
-Romans 8:29

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose."
-Romans 8:28

God bless you, Danielle.

Every single person is chosen and called to be children of God, yet few step away from being children of Satan (Jn.8:31-54; 1 Jn.3:1-10). According to your belief that God does ALL the work to save, yet He chooses all to be saved, is God not doing His job, or does man have a part to play in salvation?

 

[brakelite2]

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Seems fairly clear here that God has chosen everyone to repent.

Romans 2:Ro 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

In His love, He desires we all repent, and even leads us to this state.

Ac 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

But by our unbelief, our love of sin or the world, our stubborness and stiff-necked pride, we may resist God's leading, even though day and night He may implore us as a mother hen gathers her chicks, and we refuse to do that which God requires of each one of us before we can hope of life. We may, as the fathers of those murderers of Stephen did, kill the prophets and the messengers of God who would teach the way of salvation and urge men to repent. We may continue even as Isaiah prophesied, continue "to turn as it were our faces from Him" (Isa 53), and continue to give God grief and make Him sorrow because of our resistance.

That is the work we have to do. Though God leads us there, though He provides the conviction of sin and the hope of forgiveness, it is us who exercises the repentance that brings the new birth. It must be admitted by all that there is a fine line as to where exactly the influence of God begins and ends and where our action begins and ends. But act we must. It is not all God.
In response to God's love, we must love in return if we would see life. Not just an emotional love, but an all out whole-hearted self-sacrificial service of love that meets the conditions "if thou would see life, then keep the commandments."
Any love not voluntarily offered, is no longer love.

 

[LostSoul]

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Seems fairly clear here that God has chosen everyone to repent.

Romans 2:Ro 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

In His love, He desires we all repent, and even leads us to this state.

Ac 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

But by our unbelief, our love of sin or the world, our stubborness and stiff-necked pride, we may resist God's leading, even though day and night He may implore us as a mother hen gathers her chicks, and we refuse to do that which God requires of each one of us before we can hope of life. We may, as the fathers of those murderers of Stephen did, kill the prophets and the messengers of God who would teach the way of salvation and urge men to repent. We may continue even as Isaiah prophesied, continue "to turn as it were our faces from Him" (Isa 53), and continue to give God grief and make Him sorrow because of our resistance.

That is the work we have to do. Though God leads us there, though He provides the conviction of sin and the hope of forgiveness, it is us who exercises the repentance that brings the new birth. It must be admitted by all that there is a fine line as to where exactly the influence of God begins and ends and where our action begins and ends. But act we must. It is not all God.
In response to God's love, we must love in return if we would see life. Not just an emotional love, but an all out whole-hearted self-sacrificial service of love that meets the conditions "if thou would see life, then keep the commandments."
Any love not voluntarily offered, is no longer love.

Agreed brakelite, this is what I was trying to say. God CAN And DOES very much so move to lead the hearts of men. It is also He who stirs the desire to change our ways, and repent from our sinful lives so that we might do as Jesus instructed in the days He walked this earth: To pick up our crosses and follow Him.

God is all knowing and all seeing, and capable of ANYTHING. That is something I will not argue with anyone.

As I have said before though....even in the begining God gave Adam and Eve the CHOICE to obey Him. He did not force obedience upon them. Same with Lucifer, the great deceiver, whom God loved above all the other angels. He allowed Him the CHOICE to love and serve Him or to rebel.

If God did all the work, without expecting us to seek repentance why would Jesus have encouraged so many to turn away from sin during His ministry? Why would He have taught that we need to seek to live after God the Father, for it is He who is perfect.

Sometimes feel we tend to overlook just how awesome God is and how much love our Creator is capable of. For He very well could have made us loving Him from the begining without choice or even the ability to make decisions for ourselves. Be they right or wrong.

Loved your picture or use of a metaphor of a mother. Be it animal or human... most mother's nature is to nurture and try to guide her children in the right direction. Even knowing when their little one's do wrong, she hopes that they will see the error of their ways and cease to do such things anymore. Nicely worded.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Joe67]

1 Tim 4:10-11
10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. NAS

God called Abraham and gave him the gift of faith.

God spoke to Abimelech, the Amorite, in a dream. God blessed Abimelech as God gave Abraham to pray for Abimelech. The same event happened with Job and the three friends.

The elect are called through the blood of Jesus to be priests of God in Jesus Christ (Revelation 5:9,10) for the blessing upon the nations in fulfillment of what God promised through Abraham.

It is a two-fold salvation. The 144,000 for the priesthood and the inumerable multitude who are blessed through the blood of Jesus.

Jacob was elected of God to carry on the priestly ministry in blessing to those who God gave unto him to serve and educate in the way and the truth and the life of God in Jesus Christ.

1 Tim 2:14-15
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. KJV

This is an example of our relation to Jesus, our Head. If we continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety we will be saved at the appearing of Jesus with the children he has given us. Unless we have children to present to the Lord we will be ashamed.

No one is saved alone. It is not good for man to be alone. We are saved as a member of the family of heaven and earth.

Eph 1:10
10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth -- in Him. NKJV

Joe

 

[JoJo]

Forgive me, I did not read all 8 pages of this thread so I may have missed it if someone already pointed this out:

Did not the thief on the cross only have to acknowledge that Jesus was indeed King? (Luke 23)

"Jesus," he said, "Remember me when you come into your Kingdom."

Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth. Today you will be with me in paradise."

It seems clear to me that if we acknowledge our belief in His ability to save us (believe in His Messiahship), He will accept us into His Kingdom.

 

[Joe67]

JoJo,

The testimony of the spirit from the mouth of the thief on the cross was in a different form than they way it is coming from your presentation.

The thief called him Lord after witnessing to the innocence of "this man," after confessing his own worthiness of death.

Joe

 

[AnnieHere]

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Seems fairly clear here that God has chosen everyone to repent.

God has not chosen everyone to repent. If all were chosen by God to repent, they would... and they all would be saved. But we know from the Bible that not all will be saved.

Yet, God has commanded that all take heed to His Word.

Because repentance is being represented in this verse as a command, it does not imply that it is in the power of a man to do so.

There is nothing anyone can do to become saved, but it is of the free grace gift of God.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. " -Eph.2:8-9

(Repenting is a work that we do.)

But, still, it demonstrates that all men are sinners... and that without repentance they will perish. God requires all men to repent of sin even though the grace of repentance for sin is not given to all men. The commands of the Lord are meant to be obeyed by all; the Bible was written for the admonition of all men.

 

[Pogo]

AnnieHere,

Are not believing and faith both works?

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[LostSoul]

AnnieHere,

Are not believing and faith both works?

In Christ,

Pogo

:amen

 

[AnnieHere]

AnnieHere,

Are not believing and faith both works?

In Christ,

Pogo

Believing is a work that we do. Believing unto salvation, though, is by God's grace; not of ourselves.

Faith comes from the One Who is Faith-ful... Christ!

"So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
-Rom. 10:17

Christ is the Living Word! (Gal.2:20)

 

[Pogo]

AnnieHere,

Posted by AnnieHere...

Faith comes from the One Who is Faith-ful... Christ!

I'm thinking that you have the scriptures somewhat twisted!

I see grace as a gift from Him above, not faith!

Faith is our gift to Christ in return for His many gifts to us...grace included!

If faith comes FROM Christ, then the following passage doesn't make sense...

Hebrews 11:6 KJV
(6) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

...IF Christ provides our faith, then who would ever be without it?

Your understanding would make Christ insufficent if even one lacked faith!

So...we now know that this view has to be false!

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[Solo]

AnnieHere,

Posted by AnnieHere...

Faith comes from the One Who is Faith-ful... Christ!

I'm thinking that you have the scriptures somewhat twisted!

I see grace as a gift from Him above, not faith!

Faith is our gift to Christ in return for His many gifts to us...grace included!

If faith comes FROM Christ, then the following passage doesn't make sense...

Hebrews 11:6 KJV
(6) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

...IF Christ provides our faith, then who would ever be without it?

Your understanding would make Christ insufficent if even one lacked faith!

So...we now know that this view has to be false!

In Christ,

Pogo

1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1 Corinthians 12:1-11

 

[AnnieHere]

AnnieHere,

Posted by AnnieHere...

Faith comes from the One Who is Faith-ful... Christ!

I'm thinking that you have the scriptures somewhat twisted!

I see grace as a gift from Him above, not faith!

Faith is our gift to Christ in return for His many gifts to us...grace included!

If faith comes FROM Christ, then the following passage doesn't make sense...

Hebrews 11:6 KJV
(6) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

...IF Christ provides our faith, then who would ever be without it?

Your understanding would make Christ insufficent if even one lacked faith!

So...we now know that this view has to be false!

In Christ,

Pogo

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. "
-Eph.2:8-9

Faith which brings about salvation comes from God alone. As Hebrews 11:6 states, it IS impossible to please God without faith; and only those chosen to salvation will be given this kind of faith.

 

[Pogo]

AnnieHere,

Since I'm not a Calvinist, I find the following quote flawed...

Faith which brings about salvation comes from God alone. As Hebrews 11:6 states, it IS impossible to please God without faith; and only those chosen to salvation will be given this kind of faith.

If everything is predestined, why visit online Christian forums to discuss the scriptures?

If everything is predestined, then there is not one thing anyone can do about anything regarding our ultimate fate.

Plus, why is it that only those who think that they somehow know, pre-Judgement Day, that they are one of God's elect, teach this misunderstanding of the scriptures?

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[francisdesales]

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. "
-Eph.2:8-9

Faith which brings about salvation comes from God alone. As Hebrews 11:6 states, it IS impossible to please God without faith; and only those chosen to salvation will be given this kind of faith.

Has it occured to you that God gives ALL men the potential to believe in God (as Romans 1 suggests), but THEY choose to "grieve the Holy Spirit"? Even PAGANS can "know" the God of the Universe through Creation and Conscience. Paul in Romans 2 says some even become spiritual Jews because of their faith in God and their righteous activities brought about by grace, the Law written upon their hearts. Read Romans 1-2 again.

Your brand of "Christianity" has God a harsh Being who randomly picks and chooses whom He will save - while claiming that He desires all men to be saved... THIS is a religion of hope??? It is another version of pagan fatalism, EXACTLY what they hoped to escape while converting to Christ!

By emphasizing one part of Scriptures (fear and sovereignty of the Lord) while de-emphasizing another part (man is given commands that he is EXPECTED to obey), you are led into error. ALL of God's Word is to be heeded, not just bits and pieces.

Regards