"What must I do to be saved?"

[Joe67]

Since the OP question has been stated in the term of comparing salvation to eternal life; let me speak to this comparison.

Adam became a living soul at the creation. This was not a spiritual body. The resurrection comes with a spiritual body. The eternal life that is promised in the new covenant is through the power of the resurrection of our Lord Jesus, in whom only does the fullness of God's purpose reside. We receive a betrothal promise now, which is a measure of this fullness; this clears our conscience by Jesus' blood and transforms our mind through his teachings and changes our work habits by his spirit. At his appearing our creature quality of body will be swallowed by Jesus' immortality. Our dead body will be swallowed in victory. Who would ask to be swallowed?

Living soul is distinct from spiritual body. Living soul must die to be spring up anew in the image of the risen Savior and his spiritual body of flesh and bones; which is neither Jewish or Greek in the understanding of the matter, but is the union of the two.

Living soul is good. Spiritual body of flesh and bones is better. Jew stumbles at this thought. Greek laughs at this idea as foolishness.

Joe

 

[francisdesales]

As many as are ordained to life believe. But the opposite isn't true. All who believe Jesus is the Christ are not saved.

All who believe and repent are saved. Will they be saved for eternal life? That is another question...

No. Dogs become false teachers.

We were all "dogs" before our conversion. Thus, dogs also become followers. This is not reserved for only teachers, but ANYONE who returns to an evil life. Are you trying to say that only false teachers can return to their former evil life, while "regular" people cannot return to their former life of evil???

I also notice how you ignore the fact that Peter doesn't distinguish between follower and leader in describing Sodom or the flood...

Wow... This is getting better all the time. :P

Peter doesn't say anything about them being saved.

Peter is writing to saved people and telling them they were saved. Who else is Peter describing when he discusses those who escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of Christ??? you are in denial, Mark...

A person is saved from sin. Pollutions of the world are sin. Peter tells us they escaped sin. How? Through the knowing of Jesus Christ.

Brother, that is saved as saved can be... You are just spinnning your tires.

It's not that they were once saved. They were dogs. They went back to the vomit they knew.

We all were dogs, since we all lived an evil life before being illuminated, being saved from the corruptions of the world. This is Christianity 101... Were you holy before you were saved???

'Many will follow their licentiousness, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled.'

You have to admit (if you can be objective) the CC has done alot of things that have caused people to revile the way of truth; including the Inquisition, the burning of heretics, and acting immorally with children.

AH. Always go back to that ol' kicking bag, the "CC"...

If you cannot present a good argument, it will always serve you well to go and point out the sins of people who happen to have been nominally Catholic. Naturally, if a person who was Catholic killed someone, than all of Catholicism must be evil, forget about the fact that even TODAY, over one-third of all hospitals in the US have Catholic affiliation and origin.

I could list the same problems within various denominational communties as well, such as actively promoting slavery, killing of women suspected of being "witches", killing fellow Protestant "heretics", killing Catholic priests and nuns, etc...

I could also list the same problems within the Jewish ranks, as well.

And yet, the Church remains God's people...

Is Peter calling himself a false teacher? No.

He is describing them - saying they are greedy for gain, ignorant, irrational animals, bold and wilful, and ungodly. He could be describing the CC or the Anglican church. But what makes you think he is describing the OSAS people?

I didn't say he was describing a specific church or community. False teachers were known by their inability to live up to the standards they taught. In addition, this is polemic writing, no doubt filled with some hyperbole. I doubt that every false teacher is ALSO filled with "licentiousness". False teachers can just be ignorant.

All Peter is saying is that they knew the way of righteousness.

So did the followers. Thus, when one is saved, it doesn't follow that they will remain saved.

In addition, the TEACHER was also saved - and now not. That alone defeats OSAS...

They had good teachers - Peter and John, etc. But being ungodly, they went back to their vomit.

As did their followers... Yawn.

The implication here is that they went back to doing what they were doing before they knew of Jesus - probably creating and worshipping idols, charging money, maybe temple prostitution, homosexual acts, getting drunk, carousing, committing adultery.

As did their followers... Yawn.

But what makes you think they were saved?

Peter said so. You just cannot accept that because it destroys your false teaching.

I don't think so. They were the sons of the evil one. Indeed the wrath of God fell on them. So then how can we say they were saved from the wrath of God?

It says they had escaped the pollutions of the world. Can't you read?

You can't fool God. He knows who they are who belong to him, and who do not. And he gives them over to a base mind and to improper conduct.

I still see this whole post as smoke and mirrors because you do not have an effective answer. Whether you realize it or not, your view has been demolished.

Why?

Because being a teacher and then falling does not somehow save the OSAS argument.

If even ONE saved person is later unsaved, OSAS falls apart.

Thus, WHO CARES if this speaks "only" of teachers. They were saved, were they not? Now they are not.

End.

 

[MarkT]

You know what? Forget OSAS. It's another man's work. Imagine Calvin is just another poster arguing for his idea on this forum. At least the work came from him. Most of you are arguing for the Trinity and other doctrines that don't even come from you; you refuse to learn anything new.

I want to see your work. Branches that don't bear fruit are taken away. I'd like to see growth in the knowledge of God. But there is no growth, only doctrine written in stone on stony hearts.

We were all "dogs" before our conversion.

I wouldn't self identify francis. We are commanded to not give dogs what is holy. If you were a dog, you would not have received the gospel. Assuming you have. Assuming you want to receive any spritual truth. We are all sinners. We are evil; unless you're a perfect man. But we are not dogs. I think it's possible to act like a dog and not be a dog yourself. I remember I did things to fit in.

Thus, dogs also become followers.

I wouldn't say that. The dogs are outside; outside the knowledge of God; fierce, unholy, irrational animals, reviling in matters of which they are ignorant. Many will follow their licentiousness.

This is not reserved for only teachers, but ANYONE who returns to an evil life.

You mean the nether gloom? It's reserved for the ungodly - the entire world before the flood, the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, the angels who left their positions; Peter calls them ungodly. And he says God knows how to keep them under punishment. 2 Pet. 2:9

Are you trying to say that only false teachers can return to their former evil life, while "regular" people cannot return to their former life of evil???

I'm saying they have. What's a regular person?

I also notice how you ignore the fact that Peter doesn't distinguish between follower and leader in describing Sodom or the flood...

That's right. Peter is making a general statement about those who indulged in the lust of defiling passion and who despised authority in the past. For example to us.

A person is saved from sin. Pollutions of the world are sin. Peter tells us they escaped sin. How? Through the knowing of Jesus Christ.

I'd say a person is cleaned up/forgiven. Jesus said, 'When the unclean spirit has gone out of a man, he passes through waterless places seeking rest, but he finds none. (false teachers are waterless springs. They don't have any water.) Then he says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' And when he comes he finds it empty, swept and put in order. Then he goes and brings with him seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. So it shall be also with generation.' Mt. 12:43-45 This would apply to the followers of the false teachers.

But 'saved' means saved from the wrath of God and from going down into the Pit. Those who endure to the end will be saved. The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trial, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment.

 

[francisdesales]

You know what? Forget OSAS.

Ah, you finally have spoken something worthy of agreement here...



The rest? Forget about it...

Regards

 

[AnnieHere]

WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?

ANSWER: Nothing.

God does all the work of salvation.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. "
-John 6:44

Those whom God has chosen and predestinated to be saved, He 'causes' them to repent; to seek Him... and He works all things together for their good to perform His perfect will.

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose."
-Romans 8:28

Before the world began God elected a certain number of men unto everlasting salvation whom he did predestinate to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ of his own free grace, and according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL.

 

[XTruth]

WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?

ANSWER: Nothing.

God does all the work of salvation.

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. "
-John 6:44

Those whom God has chosen and predestinated to be saved, He 'causes' them to repent; to seek Him... and He works all things together for their good to perform His perfect will.

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose."
-Romans 8:28

Before the world began God elected a certain number of men unto everlasting salvation whom he did predestinate to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ of his own free grace, and according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL.

Nothing huh? Is this what you believe when speaking to the lost, or is this your Christian answer to a Christian? Are the ones who are saved just automatically saved b/c God decided a few would be part of the fortunate ones, or does God desire all to be saved and there is something that must be done in order to be saved from His wrath on sin forever in hell?

 

[Adullam]

Surrender to Christ.

 

[AnnieHere]

WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?
Nothing huh? Is this what you believe when speaking to the lost, or is this your Christian answer to a Christian? Are the ones who are saved just automatically saved b/c God decided a few would be part of the fortunate ones, or does God desire all to be saved and there is something that must be done in order to be saved from His wrath on sin forever in hell?

Realizing the fact that there is nothing anyone can do to be saved, is not just my belief... but it is what the Bible teaches. God has already DONE all the work of salvation.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. "
-Ephesians 2:8-9

A person cannot 'choose' to be saved. God does all the work:

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. " -Romans 9:15-16

God is Sovereign. The ones He saves have be chosen from before the foundation of the world.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" -Ephesians 1:4-7

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:44

God's command is to preach the gospel, the Word of God, to all men. But, not all will be saved:

"For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
Psalm 1:6

Who is any man to question God and His perfect will?

"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory"
-Romans 9:20-23

"It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the Lord."
Lamentations 3:26

 

[XTruth]

WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?
Nothing huh? Is this what you believe when speaking to the lost, or is this your Christian answer to a Christian? Are the ones who are saved just automatically saved b/c God decided a few would be part of the fortunate ones, or does God desire all to be saved and there is something that must be done in order to be saved from His wrath on sin forever in hell?

Realizing the fact that there is nothing anyone can do to be saved, is not just my belief... but it is what the Bible teaches. God has already DONE all the work of salvation.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. "
-Ephesians 2:8-9

A person cannot 'choose' to be saved. God does all the work:

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. " -Romans 9:15-16

God is Sovereign. The ones He saves have be chosen from before the foundation of the world.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" -Ephesians 1:4-7

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:44

God's command is to preach the gospel, the Word of God, to all men. But, not all will be saved:

"For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
Psalm 1:6

Who is any man to question God and His perfect will?

"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory"
-Romans 9:20-23

"It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the Lord."
Lamentations 3:26

Okay, then you do believe as your first post says. Just making sure I read it correctly. So we should preach the gospel, but it doesn't really matter b/c the ones who are going to be saved are going to be saved and vica versa w/ the condemned, b/c God already has His list of who will be eternally saved from His wrath and who will experience eternal damnation. So leading someone to salvation who asks you how they can escape God's wrath is pointless to you? If what you believe is correct, then if one would ask you how to receive eternal life, then you would actually say there is nothing you can do; you are either chosen or not chosen? I'm not trying to sound rude or be belittleing if I come across that way...it's just that this doesn't make sense to me. Would your answer really be to a lost soul who wanted eternal life that there is nothing to do if you want to be saved? A person really cannot 'choose' to be saved, b/c God does all the work? We have no choice? All the commands in the covenants of Scripture are pointless b/c it is already predetermined who is saved and there is nothing they can do....maybe these predetermined people will automatically obey???

Dt.30:19
"19I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"

Josh.24:15
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

 

[francisdesales]

Okay, then you do believe as your first post says. Just making sure I read it correctly. So we should preach the gospel, but it doesn't really matter b/c the ones who are going to be saved are going to be saved and vica versa w/ the condemned, b/c God already has His list of who will be eternally saved from His wrath and who will experience eternal damnation. So leading someone to salvation who asks you how they can escape God's wrath is pointless to you? If what you believe is correct, then if one would ask you how to receive eternal life, then you would actually say there is nothing you can do; you are either chosen or not chosen? I'm not trying to sound rude or be belittleing if I come across that way...it's just that this doesn't make sense to me. Would your answer really be to a lost soul who wanted eternal life that there is nothing to do if you want to be saved? A person really cannot 'choose' to be saved, b/c God does all the work? We have no choice? All the commands in the covenants of Scripture are pointless b/c it is already predetermined who is saved and there is nothing they can do....maybe these predetermined people will automatically obey???

"Eat, drink and be merry and keep sinning, for tommorrow, you are going to heaven...???"

What an amazing conclusion. One almost has to WILLINGLY IGNORE Scriptures to come to that false gospel. Literally every book (but one) of the NT denies that concept.

Regards

 

[XTruth]

Okay, then you do believe as your first post says. Just making sure I read it correctly. So we should preach the gospel, but it doesn't really matter b/c the ones who are going to be saved are going to be saved and vica versa w/ the condemned, b/c God already has His list of who will be eternally saved from His wrath and who will experience eternal damnation. So leading someone to salvation who asks you how they can escape God's wrath is pointless to you? If what you believe is correct, then if one would ask you how to receive eternal life, then you would actually say there is nothing you can do; you are either chosen or not chosen? I'm not trying to sound rude or be belittleing if I come across that way...it's just that this doesn't make sense to me. Would your answer really be to a lost soul who wanted eternal life that there is nothing to do if you want to be saved? A person really cannot 'choose' to be saved, b/c God does all the work? We have no choice? All the commands in the covenants of Scripture are pointless b/c it is already predetermined who is saved and there is nothing they can do....maybe these predetermined people will automatically obey???

"Eat, drink and be merry and keep sinning, for tommorrow, you are going to heaven...???"

What an amazing conclusion. One almost has to WILLINGLY IGNORE Scriptures to come to that false gospel. Literally every book (but one) of the NT denies that concept.

Regards

Philemon???

 

[AnnieHere]

WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?
Nothing huh? Is this what you believe when speaking to the lost, or is this your Christian answer to a Christian? Are the ones who are saved just automatically saved b/c God decided a few would be part of the fortunate ones, or does God desire all to be saved and there is something that must be done in order to be saved from His wrath on sin forever in hell?

Realizing the fact that there is nothing anyone can do to be saved, is not just my belief... but it is what the Bible teaches. God has already DONE all the work of salvation.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. "
-Ephesians 2:8-9

A person cannot 'choose' to be saved. God does all the work:

"I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. " -Romans 9:15-16

God is Sovereign. The ones He saves have be chosen from before the foundation of the world.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace" -Ephesians 1:4-7

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:44

God's command is to preach the gospel, the Word of God, to all men. But, not all will be saved:

"For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
Psalm 1:6

Who is any man to question God and His perfect will?

"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory"
-Romans 9:20-23

"It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the Lord."
Lamentations 3:26

Okay, then you do believe as your first post says. Just making sure I read it correctly. So we should preach the gospel, but it doesn't really matter b/c the ones who are going to be saved are going to be saved and vica versa w/ the condemned, b/c God already has His list of who will be eternally saved from His wrath and who will experience eternal damnation. So leading someone to salvation who asks you how they can escape God's wrath is pointless to you? If what you believe is correct, then if one would ask you how to receive eternal life, then you would actually say there is nothing you can do; you are either chosen or not chosen? I'm not trying to sound rude or be belittleing if I come across that way...it's just that this doesn't make sense to me. Would your answer really be to a lost soul who wanted eternal life that there is nothing to do if you want to be saved? A person really cannot 'choose' to be saved, b/c God does all the work? We have no choice? All the commands in the covenants of Scripture are pointless b/c it is already predetermined who is saved and there is nothing they can do....maybe these predetermined people will automatically obey???

Dt.30:19
"19I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:"

Josh.24:15
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

The fact is, if a person is interested how they can escape God's wrath and receive eternal life, it most-likely is a sign that that they are being drawn to God and His Word. They should be encouraged to call upon God for His mercy (Luke 18:13) and to read the Bible (Rom.10:17).

Who do you suppose gives a person the desire for God and His ways?

It isn't man himself because the Bible tells us that:

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." Romans 3:11-12

BTW, the verses you posted have nothing to do with God's salvation plan. God expects all men to uphold His laws and worship and serve their Creator; the one true God. The Bible was written to all men.

'I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. " -Romans 9:15

 

[XTruth]

The fact is, if a person is interested how they can escape God's wrath and receive eternal life, it most-likely is a sign that that they are being drawn to God and His Word. They should be encouraged to call upon God for His mercy (Luke 18:13) and to read the Bible (Rom.10:17).

Who do you suppose gives a person the desire for God and His ways?

It isn't man himself because the Bible tells us that:

"There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." Romans 3:11-12

BTW, the verses you posted have nothing to do with God's salvation plan. God expects all men to uphold His laws and worship and serve their Creator; the one true God. The Bible was written to all men.

'I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. " -Romans 9:15

I won't knit-pick everything, b/c there is only one point I have been trying to make. All I want to know is what you would say to a person who has realized their need for a savior and ask you what they need to do in order to be saved. Would you tell them, "Nothing?" If not, then what would you say?

 

[AnnieHere]

I won't knit-pick everything, b/c there is only one point I have been trying to make. All I want to know is what you would say to a person who has realized their need for a savior and ask you what they need to do in order to be saved. Would you tell them, "Nothing?" If not, then what would you say?

As stated in the previous post, I would encourage them to call upon God for His mercy (Luke 18:13) and to read the Bible (Rom.10:17).

 

[XTruth]

I won't knit-pick everything, b/c there is only one point I have been trying to make. All I want to know is what you would say to a person who has realized their need for a savior and ask you what they need to do in order to be saved. Would you tell them, "Nothing?" If not, then what would you say?

As stated in the previous post, I would encourage them to call upon God for His mercy (Luke 18:13) and to read the Bible (Rom.10:17).

Ah, yes, Luke 18:13; that is more like it..."9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

Smoting against his breast was an expression of mental grief. The Pharisee thought he was saved b/c of his self-righteousness. He didn't think his sins condemned him b/c he thought he had no sins due to his deeds. Only faith in the atonement of Christ will take your sins away. The humble man was saved from his sins b/c he knew his need for a savior by his own admission of being a sinner and needing mercy. His prayer brought results b/c the plea was based on atonement, not self-righteousness to be declared innocent from past sins.

Every detail of this prayer concerned himself as a sinner, God as the one to be appeased and satisfied, and the atoning blood as the means of mercy from God. Hence, the proper results for the action the sinner took in order to be saved from God's wrath on all sin (vs.14). This will produce justification every time (1 Jn.1:9; Rom.10:9-10).

So, when you would tell them to call upon God for His mercy and for them to read their Bible, are you telling them that they need to repent and turn from their sin and wicked ways? When you tell them to read their Bible, is this something that must be done, including believing, repenting as to turn from sin and toward God, and follow Christ from here on out to remain "in Christ" and not "in sin" since we reap what we sow and those who sow to the flesh will reap corruption, while those who sow to the Spirit will reap eternal life (Rom.8:1-13; Gal.5:16-26; 6:7-8), or is there nothing they must do? Is reading their Bible, as you would tell them to do, something they must do to be saved, or is obeying it a condition and something they must do in order to be saved, or is there nothing they must do, but reading their Bible is just something God would appreciate and would help them along in life, but there really is nothing they can do so it won't effect their salvation or condemnation one way or the other?

 

[AnnieHere]

So, when you would tell them to call upon God for His mercy and for them to read their Bible, are you telling them that they need to repent and turn from their sin and wicked ways? When you tell them to read their Bible, is this something that must be done, including believing, repenting as to turn from sin and toward God, and follow Christ from here on out to remain "in Christ" and not "in sin" since we reap what we sow and those who sow to the flesh will reap corruption, while those who sow to the Spirit will reap eternal life (Rom.8:1-13; Gal.5:16-26; 6:7-8), or is there nothing they must do? Is reading their Bible, as you would tell them to do, something they must do to be saved, or is obeying it a condition and something they must do in order to be saved, or is there nothing they must do, but reading their Bible is just something God would appreciate and would help them along in life, but there really is nothing they can do so it won't effect their salvation or condemnation one way or the other?

Pleading to God for His mercy and reading the Bible may be an indication that the Lord is drawing a person to Himself. Reading the Bible puts a person in the environment where God can move in his life. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Rom.10:17). But it is God who gives one the desire to seek Him, because we know that no one seeks God on their own (Rom.3:11).

But allow me to reiterate, nothing anyone DOES can get them saved. GOD does all the work of salvation. It is incorrect to tell a person that if he reads the Bible, repents, says the "sinner's prayer", "asks Jesus into his heart", "believes in his heart", etc., that then he will be saved.

Those whom God has chosen and predestinated to be saved, HE 'causes' them to repent; to seek Him... and He works all things together for their good to perform His perfect will. If a person is predestined to "everlasting" / " eternal" life, it means he had it from the beginning.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. " -Ezekiel 36:26-27

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.'
-Romans 8:29

 

[francisdesales]

What an amazing conclusion. One almost has to WILLINGLY IGNORE Scriptures to come to that false gospel. Literally every book (but one) of the NT denies that concept.

Philemon???

Yup...

 

[XTruth]

So, when you would tell them to call upon God for His mercy and for them to read their Bible, are you telling them that they need to repent and turn from their sin and wicked ways? When you tell them to read their Bible, is this something that must be done, including believing, repenting as to turn from sin and toward God, and follow Christ from here on out to remain "in Christ" and not "in sin" since we reap what we sow and those who sow to the flesh will reap corruption, while those who sow to the Spirit will reap eternal life (Rom.8:1-13; Gal.5:16-26; 6:7-8), or is there nothing they must do? Is reading their Bible, as you would tell them to do, something they must do to be saved, or is obeying it a condition and something they must do in order to be saved, or is there nothing they must do, but reading their Bible is just something God would appreciate and would help them along in life, but there really is nothing they can do so it won't effect their salvation or condemnation one way or the other?

Pleading to God for His mercy and reading the Bible may be an indication that the Lord is drawing a person to Himself. Reading the Bible puts a person in the environment where God can move in his life. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Rom.10:17). But it is God who gives one the desire to seek Him, because we know that no one seeks God on their own (Rom.3:11).

But allow me to reiterate, nothing anyone DOES can get them saved. GOD does all the work of salvation. It is incorrect to tell a person that if he reads the Bible, repents, says the "sinner's prayer", "asks Jesus into his heart", "believes in his heart", etc., that then he will be saved.

Those whom God has chosen and predestinated to be saved, HE 'causes' them to repent; to seek Him... and He works all things together for their good to perform His perfect will. If a person is predestined to "everlasting" / " eternal" life, it means he had it from the beginning.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. " -Ezekiel 36:26-27

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.'
-Romans 8:29

It is not wrong for the lost or the found TO DO those things... "(It is incorrect to tell a person that if he reads the Bible, repents, says the "sinner's prayer", "asks Jesus into his heart", "believes in his heart", etc., that then he will be saved)." But it is something TO DO, not something God does for us. This would be the correct answer the first time you posted, not, "Nothing."

It is God's plan that He has foreknown and predestinated, and not the individual conformity of free wills to the plan. He has called ALL men and ALL are free to accept or reject the call (Jn.3:16; 1 Tim.2:4; 2 Pt.3:9; Rev.22:17). All who do not accept, He has foreknown and predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son that His Son might be the first-born among many brethren (Rom.8:29). Those who reject the plan, He has foreknown and predestinated to be consigned to eternal hell as an everlasting monument of His wrath on rebels (Isa.66:22-24; Rev.14:9-11; 21:8; Mat.25:41, 46).

Jas.2:20-26
"20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is dead faith a faith that'll get you through the narrow gate? So then, there are things God requires of man in order to give him the free gift. You need to understand the difference of initial salvation/justification (Eph.2:8-9; Rom.4:1-6; Tit.3:5), and eternal salvation/justification, which is presently only a hope to those who are in Christ, not a possession or a guarantee......
The hope of eternal salvation (Rom.8:20-25; 13:11; 15:4, 13; 1 Thes.5:8; 2 Thes.2:16; 1 Pt.1), the hope of righteousness (Gal.5:5), the hope of God’s calling (Eph.1:18; 4:4), the hope of eternal inheritance (Col.1:5; Eph.1:11-18; Heb.9:15; 1 Pt.1:4), the hope of God’s glory (Rom.5:1-5; Col.1:27), the hope of the first resurrection (Acts 23:6; 24:15; 1 Thes.4:13; Tit.2:13; 1 Jn.3:3), the hope of being safe in heaven at death and awaiting the Rapture (1 Thes.2:19), and the hope of eternal life (1 Cor.13:13; 15:19; Eph.2:12; Col.1:23; Tit.1:2; 3:7; Heb.3:6; 6:11, 18-19; 7:19; 1 Pt.1:3-13).

 

[AnnieHere]

It is not wrong for the lost or the found TO DO those things... "(It is incorrect to tell a person that if he reads the Bible, repents, says the "sinner's prayer", "asks Jesus into his heart", "believes in his heart", etc., that then he will be saved)." But it is something TO DO, not something God does for us. This would be the correct answer the first time you posted, not, "Nothing."

It is God's plan that He has foreknown and predestinated, and not the individual conformity of free wills to the plan. He has called ALL men and ALL are free to accept or reject the call (Jn.3:16; 1 Tim.2:4; 2 Pt.3:9; Rev.22:17). All who do not accept, He has foreknown and predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son that His Son might be the first-born among many brethren (Rom.8:29). Those who reject the plan, He has foreknown and predestinated to be consigned to eternal hell as an everlasting monument of His wrath on rebels (Isa.66:22-24; Rev.14:9-11; 21:8; Mat.25:41, 46).

Jas.2:20-26
"20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Is dead faith a faith that'll get you through the narrow gate? So then, there are things God requires of man in order to give him the free gift. You need to understand the difference of initial salvation/justification (Eph.2:8-9; Rom.4:1-6; Tit.3:5), and eternal salvation/justification, which is presently only a hope to those who are in Christ, not a possession or a guarantee......
The hope of eternal salvation (Rom.8:20-25; 13:11; 15:4, 13; 1 Thes.5:8; 2 Thes.2:16; 1 Pt.1), the hope of righteousness (Gal.5:5), the hope of God’s calling (Eph.1:18; 4:4), the hope of eternal inheritance (Col.1:5; Eph.1:11-18; Heb.9:15; 1 Pt.1:4), the hope of God’s glory (Rom.5:1-5; Col.1:27), the hope of the first resurrection (Acts 23:6; 24:15; 1 Thes.4:13; Tit.2:13; 1 Jn.3:3), the hope of being safe in heaven at death and awaiting the Rapture (1 Thes.2:19), and the hope of eternal life (1 Cor.13:13; 15:19; Eph.2:12; Col.1:23; Tit.1:2; 3:7; Heb.3:6; 6:11, 18-19; 7:19; 1 Pt.1:3-13).

To say there is NOTHING anyone can do to be saved, is a correct statement.

God has already done ALL the work of salvation before the foundation of the world.

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." -Revelation 13:8

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" -Ephesians 1:4-11


FREEWILL is a false doctrine. The Bible does not teach it. A person's salvation has nothing to do with his own choice; but as the above verses declare, God's choice. God is Omnipotent over ALL.

Some of the following verses may be difficult for some to understand because they have been so conditioned by false teachers to believe that "freewill", our own faith (yes, even faith is a work (1Thes.1:3) , or simply believing, is tantamount to genuine salvation. But the refutation of these false ideas are realized when all the scriptures pertaining to the subject at hand are considered. This is how we come to truth.

John 3:16 -"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Not lovES. God lovED His elect before the foundation of the world.

"God commendeth his love toward US, in that, while we were yet sinners Christ died for US" (Rom. 5:8; Who are the US?..Paul is addressing the "beloved of God, called [to be] saints").
"Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee" (Jer. 31:3).
"We love him, because he first loved us." (1John 4:19) He loved US, not every man in the whole world. John is speaking to the "Beloved".
The scope of God’s loveâ€â€"God so loved the world" was not limited to the narrow bounds of Palestine, but it flowed out to sinners of the Gentiles, too. God purposed to have a people who "should not perish"; as most will in the Lake of Fire. God imparts everlasting life to every one of His own.

1 Timothy 2:4 - "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
This salvation God wills is not just a possibility or an offer to men; but it is a real, actual salvation that He has determined they will have. This is no way implies the will of any man; what he can do, or perform, or choose to be saved. This would contradict scriptures:
"So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. " -Romans 9:16
The intended scope of "all men" is kings and peasants, rich and poor, bond and free, male and femaile, young and old, Jews and Heathens. God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34)

2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

God is patiently waiting for all His elect to be gathered unto Him. The book of 2nd Peter is addressing "to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (2Peter 1:1)

Revelation 22:17 - "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

"the Spirit and the bride" are the spiritual bride of Christ... all the elect of God.

James 2:21-26:
Abraham was an elect of God. James does not show HOW men are justified or HOW they obtain righteousness, but his intent was to show that good works are always the result of, and connected with faith. By faith we are accounted righteous by God, but we are saved by God's Sovereign grace through faith:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. " (Eph. 2:8-9)


Your last paragraph is an erroneous exegesis of Scripture.

Salvation does not depend on anything a man can do. The work of salvation in His elect ones are 'set in stone':

In 1Peter 1, the elect are being addressed---

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. "
-1Peter 1:2-5


Regarding "hope" verses:

HOPE = Gr.; elpis

-expectation of good, hope
-joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation
-the author of hope, or he who is its foundation

 

[XTruth]

Regarding "hope" verses:

HOPE = Gr.; elpis

-expectation of good, hope
-joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation
-the author of hope, or he who is its foundation

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (Heb.5:9)."

You are coming out swinging with all your verses...you're a firecracker. It is obvious that you have to do something to be saved and even more obvious that you have to keep doing things in order to be eternally saved when you die or the last trump blows. You believe that you are one of the fortunate ones that God decided to spend eternity w/ before the foundations of the world and that is set in stone. You also know you did something in order to receive this free gift. You want to fight that...that is fine and totally your choice. This is turning into a Once Saved Always Saved thread and that is okay too; it was started as a result of an unconditional eternal security thread. I would like to take this to the debate forum if you'd like. You use a lot of Scripture; therefore, I do believe I will get sharpened by your spunk. You can begin it by starting the thread and begin w/ any verses you'd like...just don't throw all your ammo at me all at once. I work a lot and would like to address everything thrown at me. We have time in the debate forum to take our time and really discuss it. I believe salvation is conditional. I'll look for your thread if you'd like to engage.

Thanks