"What must I do to be saved?"

[AnnieHere]

You are coming out swinging with all your verses...you're a firecracker. It is obvious that you have to do something to be saved and even more obvious that you have to keep doing things in order to be eternally saved when you die or the last trump blows. You believe that you are one of the fortunate ones that God decided to spend eternity w/ before the foundations of the world and that is set in stone. You also know you did something in order to receive this free gift. You want to fight that...that is fine and totally your choice. This is turning into a Once Saved Always Saved thread and that is okay too; it was started as a result of an unconditional eternal security thread. I would like to take this to the debate forum if you'd like. You use a lot of Scripture; therefore, I do believe I will get sharpened by your spunk. You can begin it by starting the thread and begin w/ any verses you'd like...just don't throw all your ammo at me all at once. I work a lot and would like to address everything thrown at me. We have time in the debate forum to take our time and really discuss it. I believe salvation is conditional. I'll look for your thread if you'd like to engage.

This is what studying God's Word and rightly dividing the Word of Truth entails.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. "
-2Timothy 2:15

All the verses I posted are from the Word of God. They demonstrate clearly that God is Sovereign and the author of salvation.

Those whom Christ died for were already chosen from the foundation of the world (Eph.1:4-11). When a person truly believes God...that His Word is truth, they will realize that God is Omnipotent.

"Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him" -Ephesians 1:9-10

There is absolutely nothing a person can DO to be saved. Father does the drawing, and then, even causes us to obey:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. "
-John 6:44

"And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. "
-Ezekiel 36:27

The good works after being saved come naturally, because God gives his peoples a NEW NATURE:

"Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. "
2Corinthians 5:17

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh." -Ezekiel 36:26

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. "
-1Peter 1:23


XTruth, thanks for the offer to debate. However, I do not believe that God's Word is up for debate. True believers are commanded to study the Bible. As a person spends time in the Word, God gives the understanding... and He alone gives the 'seeing eyes' and 'hearing ears' (Mark 8:18, Mat.13:16). God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him! (Heb.11:6)


Regarding the verse you posted:

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (Heb.5:9)."

This verse simply means that those who are in Christ, are those who are obedient to Him. Christ is not the author of salvation to all men... all men do not obey Him. But all those whom Christ does save, He brings them to, and causes them to be obedient. But, obedience is not the cause of their salvation.

 

[XTruth]

I do study, everyday. There is a flaw in your understanding that I wanted to reveal to you. God does not make people come to Him in a way that even makes them obey Him. If He could do that then ALL would be saved....He cannot do that. Rom.8:1-13; Gal.5:16-26 and Gal.6:7-8 seems to be very specific about obedience. Achange of who you obey is very much a part of salvation. I am very familiar w/ the verses you post, they are excellent verses, but used carelessly. By the way, you already have been debating. My offer still stands.

Thanks

 

[AnnieHere]

I do study, everyday. There is a flaw in your understanding that I wanted to reveal to you. God does not make people come to Him in a way that even makes them obey Him. If He could do that then ALL would be saved....He cannot do that. Rom.8:1-13; Gal.5:16-26 and Gal.6:7-8 seems to be very specific about obedience. Achange of who you obey is very much a part of salvation. I am very familiar w/ the verses you post, they are excellent verses, but used carelessly. By the way, you already have been debating. My offer still stands.

Thanks

Father draws those who were chosen from the foundation of the world. This is by God's Sovereign grace...election of grace (Rom.11:5).

God doesn't draw everyone, because everyone won't be saved.

Regarding Rom. 8:1-13:

The elect are given a new nature by God; they are born of the Spirit; as opposed to those who have not the Spirit and walk after the flesh.

In chapter 5 of Galatians:

Paul is explaining the extent of Christian liberty. Because, even though we are true believers, our desire is nothing less than to serve God and be obedient to Him. As long as we walk in a flesh body, there will be temptation. As God does the work of perfecting us, because of new nature, which is incorruptible, we can be assured our our salvation because He is able to keep us:

"To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. "
-1Peter 1:5-6

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."
-Romans 14:4

"Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared"
-Exodus 23:20

"He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints."
-Proverbs 2:8

"to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called"
-Jude 1:1

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy"
Jude 1:24

"The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand." -Psalm 37:23-24

 

[brakelite2]

Annie, what I cannot accept about full predestination is the desire of God that we should love Him. If we are compelled to love, or in any way we have no choice in either who we love, or how much we love, then it ceases to be love.
If you are claiming that God implants love for Him in our hearts against our will, then would that not be akin to spiritual rape?

Your statement in your last post that" God doesn't draw everybody because not everybody will be saved" is very confusing. Appears to me that you are conceding that some have a choice in the matter, ie those who would be lost. But those who would be saved, have no choice because of God's will.

Are you married Annie? Do you love your husband of your own free will or has he forced you to love him? My husband, Jesus, never forced me to love Him. He wooed me yes, showed me His best side so to speak, revealed to me His love, but allowed me to respond. Slaves such as we were to sin may indeed be bound by that slavery, but even slaves desire freedom.

 

[Paidion]

A born again believer that falls back into sin does not lose his/her salvation; but only is in the terrible position of being chasetized by the Lord. Those who are born again can either walk in the flesh and be destroyed in this physical life or walk in the Spirit transforming into the likeness of their Redeemer and Savior. One who is born of God is sealed until the day of redemption by God himself. Believe it or not.

The apostle John believed quite differently:

Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. (I John 3:7-10 NASB)

The apostle Paul did not believe as you do either:

For he will render to everyone according to his works: to those who by perseverance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, he will give permanent life; but for those who are self-seeking and are not persuaded by the truth, but are persuaded by wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.

Affliction and anguish for every person who does evil ... but glory and honour and well-being for every one who does good ... For God shows no partiality. (Romans 2:6-11 Personal Translation)

The writer of Hebrews did not believe it either:

For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end. (Hebrews 3:14 RSV)

... being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him. Hebrews 5:9)

Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. Hebrews 12:14 RSV)

And Jesus didn't believe it!

"Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Matthew 7:21 RSV

 

[RobertMazar]

As a Catholic who is Born Again I believe that the only requirement for salvation and gaining entrance into Heaven is to receive Jesus as ones Personal Savior. Baptism, the Sacraments and church membership are all totally superfluous to salvation and gaining entrance into Heaven.

 

[Adullam]

The answer is nothing of course. A better question would be "what must one BE to be saved?" The carnal man cannot be saved, and we are not saved through effort by said carnal man. A saved person asks..."why do you save me Lord?"

<><

John

 

[Joe67]

Being justified by God and being saved by God are two distinct and yet inseparable works of God in Jesus Christ and through Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:1 testifies of justification.

Romans 5:2 testifies of salvation.

Joe

 

[Adullam]

Being justified by God and being saved by God are two distinct and yet inseparable works of God in Jesus Christ and through Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:1 testifies of justification.

Romans 5:2 testifies of salvation.

Joe

Can a person be justified and yet condemned?

 

[XTruth]

Being justified by God and being saved by God are two distinct and yet inseparable works of God in Jesus Christ and through Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:1 testifies of justification.

Romans 5:2 testifies of salvation.

Joe

Can a person be justified and yet condemned?

Being justified is being innocent. The only reason to be guilty is to transgress the laws of God, which is sin (1 Jn.3:4). The only reason angels and/or humans have ever been condemned is due to sin. When all your past sins have been taken away (Rom.3:25; 1 Jn.3:5), you are innocent, justified and not condemned. At the time(s) of being justified, it is impossible to be condemned, which is when you are in Christ. But don't confuse once being in Christ to still being in Christ the moment you are in sin (Eze.18:20-26; Rom.1:29-2:11; 6:16-23; 8:12-13; 1 Cor.3:16-17; 6:9-10; Gal.5:19-21; 6:7-8; Jas.1:15).

 

[AnnieHere]

The answer is nothing of course. A better question would be "what must one BE to be saved?" The carnal man cannot be saved, and we are not saved through effort by said carnal man. A saved person asks..."why do you save me Lord?"

<><

John

Amen. Wisdom, John. We are nothing; but beholden to His marvelous grace!

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."
-Ephesians 2:8-9

"Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace"
-Ephesians 1:3-7

 

[duval]

The unsaved man asks: "what must I do to be saved? Acts 16:31. "Men and brethren what shall we do?" Acts 2:38. "What wilt thou have me to do?" Acts 9:6.

God bless.
duval

 

[AnnieHere]

"Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?"
-Acts 2:37

God does all the work of salvation. As an example in this verse, God pricked their heart. Do you see it? God did the work.

The Bible says:

"The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it? "
-Jeremiah 17:9

God changes a man's heart according to His will:

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."
-Ezekiel 36:26

God gives His elect a new heart and causes them to walk in His statutes and judgments:

"And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. "
-Ezekiel 36:27

GOD DOES ALL THE WORK OF SALVATION!

QUESTION:

What must I do to be saved?

ANSWER:

Nothing. God does all the work of salvation.

His elect were chosen before the foundation of the world. (1Peter 1:2)

 

[XTruth]

God changes a man's heart according to His will

Mat.11:28-30
28Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jn.3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 Tim.2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pt.3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Rev.22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.


So is it your position that God doesn't want all to be saved and just chooses a few since we know only a few will be saved (Mat.7:13-14; Lk.13:24; 1 Pt.4:17-19; Rev.20:11-15)?
Is your position that God shows favoritism, which we know He does not (2 Sam.14:14; 2 Chr.19:7; Acts 10:34-35; Rom.2:11; Eph.6:9; Col.3:25; 1 Pt.1:17)?
Or is God just not doing His job, since He wants all men to be saved and none of this has a thing to do with anything we can do?

 

[duval]

Hi Anniehere

If man does NOTHING (and where is that in the Bible?) then in each case in my previous post what were they told to DO?

 

[LostSoul]

What must I do to be saved?[/b]

ANSWER:

Nothing. God does all the work of salvation.

AnnieHere,

I am sorry but I am going to have to disagree with you there. For it is also written in scripture that faith WITHOUT works is DEAD. To simply believe is not enough. We, as believers, are encouraged as well as taught to not only have faith but to LIVE in accordance of our faith.

James 2:26 (King James Version) 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I apologize for any offense caused. None was meant.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Pogo]

AnnieHere,

I am somewhat amazed at your conclusion drawn from the question posed in Acts 2:37!

"Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?"
-Acts 2:37

For the correct answer is provided in the very next verse, and it is a long way from being...NOTHING!

Acts 2:38 KJV
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Please, if you would, share the logic that you are using to arrive at such a conclusion.

In Christ,

Pogo

 

[AnnieHere]

What must I do to be saved?[/b]
Nothing. God does all the work of salvation.

AnnieHere,

I am sorry but I am going to have to disagree with you there. For it is also written in scripture that faith WITHOUT works is DEAD. To simply believe is not enough. We, as believers, are encouraged as well as taught to not only have faith but to LIVE in accordance of our faith.

James 2:26 (King James Version) 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I apologize for any offense caused. None was meant.

May God Bless You

Danielle

Danielle,

Frankly, I don't understand what you are disagreeing with.

God does ALL the work of salvation

The faith comes as a result of God's grace:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
-Ephesians 2:8-9

Believing is a work that we do. I never said that believing is enough, for one cannot believe unto salvation unless God has ordained it.

What does it mean to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? It doesn't mean just to acknowledge Him or recognize that He did exist, or that He came as the Saviour and died for sinners, etc. To believe on Him means that we have abandoned our will to Him and that we have surrendered ourselves to Him. He has become the Lord of our life we have come to trust altogether in Him; and only God can give us that kind of belief... it has to be a gift of God.

For a true believer, good works come naturally, because God gives them a new nature. (2Cor.5:17)

 

[AnnieHere]

Hi Anniehere

If man does NOTHING (and where is that in the Bible?) then in each case in my previous post what were they told to DO?

For a person to do SOMETHING in their attempt to inherit salvation would constitute a work that they DO. But God says that salvation is NOT of works that we DO.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: NOT of works, lest any man should boast. "
-Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[AnnieHere]

AnnieHere,

I am somewhat amazed at your conclusion drawn from the question posed in Acts 2:37!

"Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?"
-Acts 2:37

For the correct answer is provided in the very next verse, and it is a long way from being...NOTHING!

Acts 2:38 KJV
(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Please, if you would, share the logic that you are using to arrive at such a conclusion.

In Christ,

Pogo

In Acts 2:37, God is the One who did the work... HE PRICKED THEIR HEART.
In Acts 2:38, now they were then able to repent and receive salvation from God.

The Bible says:

"The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
-Jer.17:9

Before a man can do any repenting, God first has to give him a NEW heart:

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. "
-Ezek. 36:26