Why Christians Cannot Sin

[jerry63935]

In that case, you have no argument that Christians cannot sin. This goes right back to what I said previously: And, so, Christians do, in fact sin. Ultimately, all sin is sin against God.

every thing he has posted in scripture and replies . shoots down the Christian can noit sin .. he seems to be shooting himself in the foot.

 

[Edward]

every thing he has posted in scripture and replies . shoots down the Christian can noit sin .. he seems to be shooting himself in the foot.

I think you guys are right. Christians can and do sin. No sin in Christ simplly means if one is following the law of God and doing His work then there is no sin. But let's say Bibles are illegal to bring into whatever country and is a felony...and you smuggle some in, that is not sin in God's eyes so you are not subject to the laws of men in that instance.

Now if you went and did an armed robbery it might just be different, lol. For that would be outside the will of God.

If the Lord allowed them to catch you smuggling Bibles and they did you poorly for it, then...you prolly just got a new wing on your mansion in Heaven for it. So wither way, rejoice.

 

[Robert Pate]

In that case, you have no argument that Christians cannot sin. This goes right back to what I said previously: And, so, Christians do, in fact sin. Ultimately, all sin is sin against God.

Sin is the transgression of God's law, 1 John 3:4.

There cannot be a transgression if there is no law.

"For where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 4:15. There is no law because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Jesus abolished the law by nailing it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. also Ephesians 2:15.

 

[jerry63935]

. But let's say Bibles are illegal to bring into whatever country and is a felony...and you smuggle some in, that is not sin in God's eyes so you are not subject to the laws of men in that instance.

i m o i would see that as a type of martyrdom

 

[jerry63935]

There cannot be a transgression if there is no law.

there is law. we dont live by under the law . we are under grace how would you interpret james to him who knows to do Good and dont is sin. curious are you 100 % obedient to what the spirit leads you to do? be truthful if you say yes. i will have to have doubt

 

[Hopeful]

Adam and Eve were created innocent. When they sinned against God, they lost their innocent status and became sinners. A sinner is one that has transgressed God's law. All that are born after Adam are born sinners, Psalm 51:5. and need to be born again by the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23.

Being born again does not remove our sin nature, but it does help to subdue it. The Christian now has two natures, the nature of Christ and the nature of Adam. This can cause distress in the Christian life because these two natures are in conflict with each other, Galatians 5:17.

You present a new doctrine with that comment.
Instead of becoming a new creature, (2 Cor 5:17), you present a Siamese twin creature with two natures.
It is an abhorrent idea.

 

[Free]

Sin is the transgression of God's law, 1 John 3:4.

There cannot be a transgression if there is no law.

"For where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 4:15. There is no law because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Jesus abolished the law by nailing it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. also Ephesians 2:15.

We've been through this. You say that Romans 4:15 is referring to the law of Moses and use it to support your assertion that Christians cannot therefore sin. You have also said that it was the law of Moses that Jesus abolished. Yet, you say that Adam and Eve sinned because they transgressed God's law.

But God's law is not the law of Moses, which means that God's law has always been, and will always be, in effect. It follows then that Christians can sin.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Adam and Eve were created innocent. When they sinned against God, they lost their innocent status and became sinners. A sinner is one that has transgressed God's law. All that are born after Adam are born sinners, Psalm 51:5. and need to be born again by the Gospel, 1 Peter 1:23.

Being born again does not remove our sin nature, but it does help to subdue it. The Christian now has two natures, the nature of Christ and the nature of Adam. This can cause distress in the Christian life because these two natures are in conflict with each other, Galatians 5:17.

Law and religion does not help with this conflict, if anything it will make it worse, Romans 7:7-14. The only thing that will help is faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus has abolished the law that causes us to sin, Ephesians 2:15, Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. Spiritually, our old sinful nature has been put to death, so that we don't have to serve sin, Romans 6:6. But we are still here in our unredeemed Adamic bodies that are prone to sin.

After being born again by the Gospel God now sees us "In Christ" and seals us with his Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13. God now sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. No laws, rules or religion needed. It is all of God. If you will embrace these things and believe them to be true, you will be a much better and stronger Christian.

Actually the title of this thread should be, "Why Christians can sin and never call it sin again." It used to be that OSAS was a license to sin as the perpetrator is going to Heaven no matter how he behaves. Now in this theology the perpetrator can behave as bad as they want and believes that God no longer sees the wrong they do but just sees "Jesus" in them. So the evil they do to others is no longer called sin. Talk about lawlessness! If they were not a slave to various sins that please them before, they sure will be afterwards as they render themselves blind to the wrong they do. I am very sure those who work and Iive with them are not at all blind to it though.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

A

The Mosiac law that was given to Israel by God and Moses. It covers every facet of one's life and contained hundreds and hundreds of laws, rules and regulations. It was given to the Jews as a means of control until their Messiah arrived and then after the Messiah arrived it was abolished, Ephesians 2:15, so that God's people could live by faith and the Holy Spirit, Hebrews 8:10-13.

The purpose of the law was to preserve the nation of Israel so that the savior of the world could come from it. God did not want another Sodom and Gomorrah that would corrupt the line of Patriarchs from which Jesus would come. It was never intended to make anyone righteous. The Pharisees wanted to make it a religion.

Actually, “the law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul” the Bible says. Job was called righteous by God for observing the law. As were all the others who God esteemed.

The alternative, “do as you want shall be the whole of the law” sounds like what you are proposing. Who wants to live in a land where the law is abolished?

The test of this theology is how those who insist their impulses are under no law actually behave. So far, none have convinced the observer that these kind are more generous, loving, kind, patient or any other christlike fruit. On the contrary, they tend to be quite fixed on themselves defending their “holiness by believing they are” quite fiercely. So the teaching doesn’t produce good fruit.

 

[gordon777]

Sin is the transgression of God's law, 1 John 3:4.

There cannot be a transgression if there is no law.

"For where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 4:15. There is no law because, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. Jesus abolished the law by nailing it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. also Ephesians 2:15.

Sin is the transgression of Gods law, and that is why God gets rid of the transgressors..


Psalm 37:38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.

Proverbs 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

Isaiah 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.

Hosea 14:9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the Lord are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.




The law is to love our neighbour as ourselves, if you notice, Christ fulfilled that law of love.

If we believe in what Christ fulfilled, we shall keep His same ways, knowing that transgressors will b destroyed ( through lack of belief in the love of Christ, laying HIs life down for us to fulfil the righteousness of the law.)

We shall be judged by that same law of liberty, and if we believe in mercy, we will find mercy, if we don't do mercy, we show we do not believe in the mercy of Christ. ( we then deny that He died for us in Hs love and kindness.) We die without belief, as sin is the devils denial of the righteousness of God.




James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

 

[Robert Pate]

A

Actually, “the law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul” the Bible says. Job was called righteous by God for observing the law. As were all the others who God esteemed.

The alternative, “do as you want shall be the whole of the law” sounds like what you are proposing. Who wants to live in a land where the law is abolished?

The test of this theology is how those who insist their impulses are under no law actually behave. So far, none have convinced the observer that these kind are more generous, loving, kind, patient or any other christlike fruit. On the contrary, they tend to be quite fixed on themselves defending their “holiness by believing they are” quite fiercely. So the teaching doesn’t produce good fruit.

No one in either the Old Testament or the New Testament was saved or justified by the law. The law has been abolished only for Christians; the rest will be judged by it.

Job, like many others was justified by faith, Romans 4:5. Justification is by faith, because it is by Christ, Romans 3:26.

Jesus justifies the ungodly and reconciles them to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No one in either the Old Testament or the New Testament was saved or justified by the law. The law has been abolished only for Christians; the rest will be judged by it.

Job, like many others was justified by faith, Romans 4:5. Justification is by faith, because it is by Christ, Romans 3:26.

Jesus justifies the ungodly and reconciles them to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

God bragged that Job was the most righteous man on earth by virtue of his deeds. Enoch was so righteous he didn’t die. Elisabeth and Zechariah were called righteous in the New Testament.

It sounds like you have an obeying God aversion when it comes to
righteousness/justification. That is, anyone who obeys God’s law is in unbelief and those whose theology tells them to believe Jesus saves them from hell avoiding any particular (odious law/obedience) is how one is justified. Am I mistaken?

 

[Robert Pate]

God bragged that Job was the most righteous man on earth by virtue of his deeds. Enoch was so righteous he didn’t die. Elisabeth and Zechariah were called righteous in the New Testament.

It sounds like you have an obeying God aversion when it comes to
righteousness/justification. That is, anyone who obeys God’s law is in unbelief and those whose theology tells them to believe Jesus saves them from hell avoiding any particular (odious law/obedience) is how one is justified. Am I mistaken?

Yes, you are mistaken. Righteousness is not by law. Righteousness is by faith, Romans 4:5.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, you are mistaken. Righteousness is not by law. Righteousness is by faith, Romans 4:5.

No, you are mistaken. God hadn’t read Romans 4:5 as it wasn’t written at that point.

I mean, you can argue with God about Job really being righteous but you’re on the wrong side if you do. That was actually the Devil’s position. He said Job wasn’t really right.

 

[Robert Pate]

No, you are mistaken. God hadn’t read Romans 4:5 as it wasn’t written at that point.

I mean, you can argue with God about Job really being righteous but you’re on the wrong side if you do. That was actually the Devil’s position. He said Job wasn’t really right.

That's funny. "God had not read Romans 4:5"

Job like all of the rest of us was born after Adam. He had Adam's blood coursing through his veins because Adam was his first father who was a sinner. This is why Paul wrote, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. I am sure that Job was a good man, but he was still a sinner, a very self-righteous sinner.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That's funny. "God had not read Romans 4:5"

I thought so. Thanks

Job like all of the rest of us was born after Adam. He had Adam's blood coursing through his veins because Adam was his first father who was a sinner. This is why Paul wrote, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. I am sure that Job was a good man, but he was still a sinner, a very self-righteous sinner.

I know your theology tells you this but, frankly speaking, God Himself disagrees. He, not Job, boasted of his righteousness. Why not accept God’s view?

 

[Robert Pate]

I thought so. Thanks

I know your theology tells you this but, frankly speaking, God Himself disagrees. He, not Job, boasted of his righteousness. Why not accept God’s view?

The book of Job was written under the Old Covenant of laws, rules and religion. Under the New Covenant there is none righteous, no, not one, Romans 3:10.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The book of Job was written under the Old Covenant of laws, rules and religion. Under the New Covenant there is none righteous, no, not one, Romans 3:10.

Ah, so your position is in the Old Covenant of laws, they were or could be righteous in their behavior and attitudes towards but as soon as Jesus came and the New Covenant came into effect, no more righteousness. Is that your position? Righteousness was there before Jesus but not afterwards?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It is always interesting the false positions always work themselves into impossible corners. The "christians never sin" theology has the difficulty that christians, including those who espouse this, actually do sin. So what do they do? They refine what "sin" actually is, they insist scriptures claim that they personally are sinless and therefore it must be so or other impossible positions.

The fact is, theology that matches how God sees a matter has no corners to be worked into. This is because theology that describes matters as God sees them reflects both the scripture and reality. It is a very satisfying set of truths, that is, when your thinking matches the scripture as far as you have gotten and it matches real life as you see it. You do not need to redefine words. You do not need to beat dead horses that have long been agreed upon as being dead. It is really wonderful, much better than stubbornly insisting on a position because the flesh likes it and make no mistake, telling the man in the mirror he is sinless as well as telling that man that all he has received from God (supposedly) will cost him nothing ever but was completely free of charge either in selfish choices nor otherwise very much appeals to the flesh.

 

[Robert Pate]

Ah, so your position is in the Old Covenant of laws, they were or could be righteous in their behavior and attitudes towards but as soon as Jesus came and the New Covenant came into effect, no more righteousness. Is that your position? Righteousness was there before Jesus but not afterwards?

There are two kinds of righteousness. There is the righteousness of man and the righteousness of God.

The righteousness of man is tainted with sin and pride because of Adam. All that are born into the world are born after Adam. They have Adam's blood coursing through their veins and according to Paul are sinners, Romans 3:10.

No one has the righteousness of God except Jesus Christ; Jesus is the epitome of God's law and is 100% sinless.